EltonTeng wrote:
There may be special circumstances that led to the drug habits, stealing, and criminal activities. However, the criminal activities still need to be punished according to the magnitude of the crime. We can try as much as we can to fix the "real problem" but the current bad behavior has to be punished. The punishment in the form of incarceration should be part of the rehabilitation process if required.
Special circumstances? If we're talking about drug use as a whole, these are circumstances brought about by structural violence in most of the cases; by the unseen dimensions of society that pervasively and ultimately relegate people to a lower status in our country.
I agree with you, but we seem to focus too much on the retributivist / consequentialist notions of the law. Do you think that jail time is going to:
1. Stop people from using drugs?
2. Fix people's drug problems?
3. Solve any of the root causes that lead to drug use?
Anti-drug policy is the same way; it does pretty much nothing... and this is where these laws come from. It's funny, we focused on the demand by locking up people, and it didn't work. Then we focused on the supply and tried to stop the drugs coming into the country, and it didn't work. Both at the same time? Didn't work. That's the problem with the way government approaches problems: well, many times they simply don't understand them.
ontime wrote:
Anti-drug policy is the same way; it does pretty much nothing. It's funny, we focused on the demand by locking up people, and it didn't work. Then we focused on the supply and tried to stop the drugs coming into the country, and it didn't work. Both at the same time? Didn't work.
How about focus on killing all drug users and the dealers. This works if you have limited resources.
When Moa took over China in 1949 he was facing a country of opium addicts, and in a short time he took care the drug problem. Rehab the users cost money, trying to catch dealers cost a lot more money, so at the end it's much cheaper and easier to round up the users and hang them. When drug problem is gone so are thieves and violent crimes.
Singapore has one of toughest drug laws in place, they hang you the next day if they catch you with illegal drugs.
carlsbadbum wrote:
When Moa took over China in 1949 he was facing a country of opium addicts, and in a short time he took care the drug problem. Rehab the users cost money, trying to catch dealers cost a lot more money, so at the end it's much cheaper and easier to round up the users and hang them. .
I think Moa (sic) also had a way of dealing with people who misspelled his name.
claudermilk wrote:
This is the "Forum & Miscellaneous" section, isn't it? Seems like just the place here for the post. I'll leave the rest as uncalled-for IMHO.
Nice post, love to hear of scumbags getting what is coming to them.
People...just so it's clear, this thread was started in a gear discussion forum (I believe it was Canon). That's why I asked the questions originally. Evidently Fred or a moderator didn't think this kind of post belonged on a gear discussion forum. I rest my case, thank you.
Heck, I think it's a great story. But Fred has nearly two dozen separate forums on his site for a reason...if we want to read/learn about Canon gear, we go there, if we want to see sports images, we go there, and so on. What I find interesting is that those who want to dish out the punishment to the perp in the story don't even have enough respect for Fred's site to think that posts belong in the appropriate forums. This isn't rocket science.
I'd bet money, too, that those who are quick to say let's pull out the baseball bats are some of the last people who would ever have the nerve to do or say something like that if it weren't for the internet.
OK, then I'll retract the first part as it was moved before I saw it. For the rest, I found the comment unnecessarily condescending, just my opinion. I don't recall mentioning baseball bats, just that I'm happy they are going to jail for theft. Anyway, point made & dragging it on will just turn ugly, so I'm done.
It's always good to hear about folks getting their comeuppance. I'm sure we'd all like to treat societies ailments and get to the root cause of crime but until we manage that I think locking up scumbags like this will have to suffice.
Oh and I have no interest in getting into an argument over this but I can't help but feel that the forum would be a nicer place if we left the moderating to the moderators and if we do have to pass comment then keeping it civil will certainly help in that regard.
Mike Farren wrote:
It's always good to hear about folks getting their comeuppance. I'm sure we'd all like to treat societies ailments and get to the root cause of crime but until we manage that I think locking up scumbags like this will have to suffice.
What? No torture? Jail time means no work with free food, free rent, free cable TV, free medical, free use of the gym, free legal service and many more. Now I know why my kid's teacher is asking for donation of school supplies because our tax dollars is running low.
Mike Farren wrote:
It's always good to hear about folks getting their comeuppance. I'm sure we'd all like to treat societies ailments and get to the root cause of crime but until we manage that I think locking up scumbags like this will have to suffice.
I'm sorry, but as long as we approach things this way, they'll never change. Plain and simple.
*Shrug*
Referring to severe punishment for drug users, well, there's a point at which increasing the severity of punishment has little preventative effect. That's great that they "solved" their drug problems that way, but such draconian policies seem to only exist in our immigration law. So you have two solutions: listen to what the research says and approach the true causes of drug problems, or you can implement increasingly harsh punishment for drug users and sellers. Obviously our society won't allow for the latter to get harsh enough in light of the examples you've given, so I think the former is more likely. I guess it's a mess. Sad.
Plenty of criticism but we seem to be distinctly lacking in alternative ideas here. Saying that prison does not work is nice and easy - Finding a viable alternative not so much.
