Claudermilk brought up an interesting angle here, although not of the kind that one could use often: buying a used lens which has been preselected for excellence by an experienced and trustworthy seller.
Lenses which could benefit from that copy pre-selection would IMO be: 100-400, 50L, 17-40, 24-70L, 300 f/4 IS, and perhaps a few more. Now, I think I'd be willing to pay even more than retail for such a used but pre-selected lens. As an example, if I could get a good condition sharp wide open 50 f/1.4, I'd pay up to 25% premium over the new retail price.
Huh? Where'd I say that? I know it's one reason many FMers prefer to buy used on the B&S board, however.
The only lens I've gotten through the board is a 50/1.8 Mk I--and that's the reason, it isn't available new & I prefer the Mk I over the Mk II. For any other, currently-available lens I certainly would not pay 25% over retail, I would demand 25% under retail as the upper limit since it is used, and warranty is possibly problematic or non-existent.
A topic like this came up on another board recently and I like seeing all of the varying responses.
IMO, the reason for the higher prices are simple...most lenses are generally in high demand, and if taken care of aren't really susceptible to performance decreases with age. Add to the mix that many buyers are very discriminating and probably consider it worth it to buy a lens from a reputable seller who has already taken the time to ensure that a lens works properly and within specs, even if the price is as much as 90% as a new retail version. I personally have yet to buy a lens that isn't sharp, so I wouldn't necessarily assume buying used will carry a higher "copy variation risk."
I suppose there is a perceived risk of buying a lens that isn't under warranty, but not in my mind.
For example, if I buy 10 lenses at 85% or even 90% of retail, I've likely saved well over $1000 and all of my lenses perform exactly the same as ones I could have purchased new (assuming of course I only buy sharp lenses from trustworthy, proven sellers).
Another buyer, however, decides to purchase all of his 10 lenses new, and paid over $1000 more to get the peace of mind that his lenses are under warranty for the first 12 months, along with the other benefits the OP mentioned.
Knowing that cost difference, do you honestly think that any of my 10 lenses will require over $1000 in warranty work over the first 12 months I own them? Of course not. I'd say the odds would be fair that maybe 1 or 2 of those 10 "might" need some kind of work, but even that would probably cost at most, $100-$200 per lens in most cases, so I'm still coming out ahead and I get to keep the extra $600 savings. You also have to consider that even though I wasn't the original purchaser, Canon may still fix my "used' lens for free, because as the OP says that seems to be at their discretion!
Warranties, like insurance and extended service plans, aren't always worth the $$$ that people insist on paying for them.
In addition to what has been posted - many will pay a slightly higher price than say EBay because they have personal relationships with individuals on FM or they have an excellent reference from someone they know on FM and are willing to pay 5%-10% for peace of mind.
Sellers like Mike Hatam and others are extremely reliable and very accurate with their evaluation and description of the items including lenses (good copy, average copy, bad copy) etc... I know that I would prefer to pay a bit more money for a known sharp copy of a particular lens from a reputable seller that I know personally here on FM.
I have formed many positive business relationships and personal friendships here on FM and I don't mind writing a check to a fellow FM'er for a bit more than average used prices just for that piece of mind.
Duncan_Staples wrote:
I have formed many positive business relationships and personal friendships here on FM and I don't mind writing a check to a fellow FM'er for a bit more than average used prices just for that piece of mind.
Yup, peace of mind, in whatever form it might come, is worth some money.
One other factor to consider to make this apples to apples is that most B/S listings include shipping - and I've never seen one that charges sales tax. While I recognize that (at least for those outside of New York) that you can avoid paying sales tax by ordering from B&H (though try telling that to your state's department of revenue), you cannot avoid paying shipping.
While that may not be a big deal on a $1,500 item, it certainly factors in on a $200 item, that costs 5% of its value just to ship.
I would take a bit of an exception to the 20% rule. To me it's more an issue of the dollar amount vs. an arbitrary percentage. 20% may be the minimum to make it worthwhile on a $200 item, but 10% may be on a $1,000 item.
One other consideration. If you don't intend to buy and hold, then buying used - at whatever the going rate - likely makes more sense, whether that's a 10% discount or 20% discount - so that your potential loss on the subsequent sale is minimized.
Finally, all of this goes out the window if photography is a business for you with the section 179 expensing provision of the tax code, as you can only use this provision (which allows you to expense the item in the year of purchase rather than depreciating it over its life) if you buy new - (as a good friend discovered during his audit).
I've been active on the b&S forum for about 5 years and the only bad experience I had was buying some books. I have a general rule when buying (or selling, believe it or not) and that's to make sure it's a good value. What value means is selling price, transactions costs (fear factor included), condition of the lens, my need for it, how long I expect to keep it which leads to resale value, and ultimately how much cash do I have. One thing to keep in mind when dealing with the B&S forum over new or ebay (typically) is you can get first hand use information and sample shots taken with that specific lens (and maybe your type of camera too). That has to be factored into the price you're willing to pay (it is in what I sell my stuff for).
That being said, I recently sold 10 fairly seldom used lenses at the urging of my wife and purchased 4, higher value lenses. Of the four purchased, one was bought NIB on the B&S board, one was bought new from BHphotovideo (24-105) because there wasn't a big enough price difference between those selling the kit lenses and the BH coupon code, a 50 F1.2 from adorama as a refurb since that pretty much guaranteed Canon had checked it out and the price was a bit lower than most copies being sold here (and by the way, I'm extremely happy with it... don't know about the focus shift issue yet, but it is super sharp wide open.. major wow for this lens) and also a large bazooka prime on the B&S forum that was used and had some paint loss. This was from a reputable seller on the B&S and the lens and seller reputation represented the biggest bang for the least amount of bucks and worry. So to me, it's all perceived value on the purchase and that value changes from opportunity to opportunity.
I think a lot of you forget to add taxes when bought new. So buying something that's only 5% off the new price also saves me taxes, I know a lot of stores offer no taxes on their out of state shippings, but still going to a local store and picking one up is going to cost me. Most used items if they're bnb, lnib etc etc they do come with a warranty, most people don't fill out their warranty cards until needed anyways and of course on an item like that I would want the original receipt.
It's indeed insane what some people pay for used gear compared to new, I'm looking to get a 40D sometime soon and have been keeping an eye on deals, here and on ebay, people easily pay $1200 for a new one shipped from China Beats me. On Craigslist as well, people are asking say $50 more then the actual retail value.
Beats me. On Craigslist as well, people are asking say $50 more then the actual retail value.