Curator wrote:
So, after reading Rob's latest update, what convinced you that this problem can't be fixed practically? Have you seen or heard of the results from this latest fix?
I'm assuming that you're referring to the latest fix being discussed in this thread, as Rob stated two months ago that there were still unresolved issues after the blue dot/sub-mirror fix.
Because:
1. They aren't saying anything - which would end this bashing. On Thursday and Friday I talked to three different mid-level Canon people in various departments and in various locations and I would swear that they were working from a script in terms of their response to me. Identical phrasing from all three. Sounded to me like they were buttoning down the hatches.
2. Looked at some shoots taken on Friday from my 1DMkIII. This is after a second trip in because "the fix" didn't fix the problem. The camera focused fine on high contrast subjects but totally botched human faces. Focused on the eyebrow and there is not one thing in focus in the entire frame - literally. (24-105 @ 105 - F7.1 - 1/250 - IS On - Focus Confirmed).
This is not a camera that can't focus. It is a camera that doesn't know how to focus and that is a very fundamental flaw that I am sure hasn't been missed by Canon.
I'm afraid Canon has become a victim of its own success. Canon's major competitor, in the SLR market, is Nikon. Nikon is a very much smaller company and while Nikon cannot invest the sort of research dollars into development that Canon is capable of, they (Nikon) can take quick advantage of technology and incorporate such innovation into their designs with a very short time lag. Canon is now in the unpleasant position that Kodak once occupied. Canon is to large to react quickly to mistakes and this will cost them their lead in imaging technology. Competition is good, it is what evolution requires, whether it is biological evolution or product evolution. Sorry for the lecture, more like a rant I'm afraid.
Cheers-Red
Alan321 wrote:
To me the 1D3 AF system is an incremental change in the sense that it is still a 45-point system. It's not as if Canon has no past experience handling the focus info coming in simultaneously from 45 different cross-type and linear sensors - they've been doing it since the EOS 3 was released in the 1990s. It's not as radical a change as it was going from 7- or 9-point AF to 45-point back then.
Also, the change from Digic II to Digic III is largely irrelevant because the Digic computers do not handle the AF in the pro bodies - a separate computer is used for AF and has been at least since the 1V was introduced. That computer used to do exposure calcs as well until the 1D2 was introduced. Digic is used for in-camera image processing and managing histograms and so on.
Worse than any defect in the camera (which they were surely aware of when it was released) has been the blame-the-photographer attitude they took while they looked for the real problem. That is unforgivable. I don't expect many people to jump ship to Nikon as it makes little or no financial sense, but I do hope that more new high-end DSLR users start off with Nikon to make Canon appreciate that they handled things poorly. The trouble is that Nikon is no saint either, and probably even worse.
I'm also convinced that the 40D has a similar AF problem to the 1D3. Something that is not noticed by everyone but is there in too many cameras nonetheless. Mine was a dog and Canon could not fix it. Others have reported similar problems but the big majority of users would not realise whether or not they had a defective camera.
With my history of defective Canon cameras and the 1D3 fiasco I would highly recommend that nobody buy a new model for the first several months after it hits the streets. Let the early adopters and testers prove that it is worth having first. I'm amazed at how many people have ordered a 1Ds3 even though the 1D3 (with the same technology) is still not fixed.
Andrew Gough wrote:
So far, my IDs3 AF has been very good, much better than my 1Ds2 was...
maybe your 1ds2 is broken ?
just kidding! but seriously, my theory is that the current design and/ or manufacturing system used to produce this camera doesn't leave much room for error. and there always will be error. so your camera is probably sitting close to the nominal on something. good stuff!
1. They aren't saying anything - which would end this bashing. On Thursday and Friday I talked to three different mid-level Canon people in various departments and in various locations and I would swear that they were working from a script in terms of their response to me. Identical phrasing from all three. Sounded to me like they were buttoning down the hatches.
But they are saying something...not to you and me, but as Rob stated:
"Starting on February 1, 2008, Canon USA began informing key photographers and key organizations using the EOS-1D Mark III that engineers at Canon in Japan have developed a new fix for the camera's autofocus, a fix that's in addition to the change in the sub-mirror mechanism and firmware updates introduced in 2007."
Paul B wrote:
....... If you're a technology company you don't screw the early adopters; you make sure people know they're not going to be penalized for buying a new-generation product early.
Ever heard of the iPhony? What a joke......
Steve Jobs - Said nonchalantly "How about some Koolaid while I screw you"?
Curator wrote:
But they are saying something...not to you and me, but as Rob stated:
"Starting on February 1, 2008, Canon USA began informing key photographers and key organizations using the EOS-1D Mark III that engineers at Canon in Japan have developed a new fix for the camera's autofocus, a fix that's in addition to the change in the sub-mirror mechanism and firmware updates introduced in 2007."
Yes, and that's the problem... "VIP" MkIII owners are being kept in the know by Canon, while the rest of us are left to speculate wildly as to what is going on. Note, the story says "have developed", not "are developing". In other words, it's done. If that's the case, why have we not heard any official word from Canon? Perhaps they're still working on the logistics of how the repair will be executed, but even if that's the case, a simple press release announcing the repair, and stating that the exact details will be forthcoming, would quell the (justified) speculation that maybe the wallet is closed, and only "VIP" shooters will get this fix (or camera swap), leaving everyone else with substandard MkIIIs.
Hrow wrote:
2. Looked at some shoots taken on Friday from my 1DMkIII. This is after a second trip in because "the fix" didn't fix the problem. The camera focused fine on high contrast subjects but totally botched human faces. Focused on the eyebrow and there is not one thing in focus in the entire frame - literally. (24-105 @ 105 - F7.1 - 1/250 - IS On - Focus Confirmed).
This is not a camera that can't focus. It is a camera that doesn't know how to focus and that is a very fundamental flaw that I am sure hasn't been missed by Canon. ...Show more →
I haven't got a fixed body - mine is a 547xxx one just after "The Fix" was announced. What bugs me is that yours doesn't work - focussing on the eyebrow - while mine works perfectly in that situation. It's the randomness of the problem that is more worrying than anything else in my opinion. How can you fix something if it ain't determinable (is that an English word?) in the first place?
Emile Gregoire wrote:
I haven't got a fixed body - mine is a 547xxx one just after "The Fix" was announced. What bugs me is that yours doesn't work - focussing on the eyebrow - while mine works perfectly in that situation. It's the randomness of the problem that is more worrying than anything else in my opinion. How can you fix something if it ain't determinable (is that an English word?) in the first place?
Sometimes you can't fix things and I'm really OK with that. There are probably many more MkIII that work well than there are those that have problems which makes Canon's handling of things even more idiotic. If they had just told me, we can't fix your camera do you want a replacement or a refund I would have probably taken the refund and laid down another $4K and bought a 1DsMkIII and sung their praises.
Instead they tell me it is because I am using the * button to focus and that I'm the only one having problems. They send me back a camera that has problems that are obvious in the first five frames. Didn't they think I would notice? Didn't they even look at it? I am getting a bit resentful at them treating me like I'm a moron. Today's little goody was the Customer Relations supervisor telling me that she would probably be madder than I am given the situation but no, she isn't going to do a thing about it. Send the camera and we'll have another go at fixing it.
mcaswell wrote:
...a simple press release announcing the repair, and stating that the exact details will be forthcoming, would quell the (justified) speculation that maybe the wallet is closed, and only "VIP" shooters will get this fix (or camera swap), leaving everyone else with substandard MkIIIs.
--Michael
Do you really believe they would only fix a few "VIP" cameras? I know if I believed that, I wouldn't be purchasing any Canon products in the future.
Curator wrote:
Do you really believe they would only fix a few "VIP" cameras?
Not necessarily, but the "VIP" shooters have reportedly been informed of a fix, while Canon techs are reported to be steadfastly denying this "rumor" whenever anyone else inquires about it. In turn, that fuels such speculation.
Let's pretend that in 2 or 3 months, there has still been no official word from Canon on this. Maybe it really WAS just an unsubstantiated rumor. But do you think anyone will believe that? No... the theory will be that Canon did indeed figure out what was really wrong with the MkIII, but the fix (or swap) was prohibitively expensive. Not wanting to lose the PR effect of a sea of white lenses at sporting events, they spend the money to quietly take care of the pro sports shooters, while sticking to the "with the 07 fix, the MkIII now performs to our specifications" line for everyone else.
I hope this doesn't happen, and I really don't think Canon would be so stupid. But you never know... with bean counters in charge.
I was just told by a very exasperated repair rep in Virginia that Canon has no plans to announce any additional repairs to the 1DmkIII and that the AF of the repaired cameras is outperforming all other EOS cameras.
I was about to send in my 1DmkIII for the repair (even though the body is working great and I've had no AF issues - more a worry about resale value) - but I've chosen to hold off for a few months in light of the rumors...
Seems like the same speak they were giving just before the Oct announcement. Even though letters were out whispers were being heard the call centers were still denying it.
suemcc wrote:
I was just told by a very exasperated repair rep in Virginia that Canon has no plans to announce any additional repairs to the 1DmkIII and that the AF of the repaired cameras is outperforming all other EOS cameras.
I was about to send in my 1DmkIII for the repair (even though the body is working great and I've had no AF issues - more a worry about resale value) - but I've chosen to hold off for a few months in light of the rumors...
Susan
My associates here in OZ, those who still own the Mark III, have recently been told the same thing. However, there is no concensus as to whether the repair centers actually know anything or if they are simply sticking to the Canon party line. Still, it is of some concern that for the first time there is a buzz about switching to Nikon. It takes a lot to sour these boys on a camera body, to most it's just a tool. When your paycheck depends on getting the shot, you get kind of fussy about your tools.
Cheers-Red
Steve Jobs - Said nonchalantly "How about some Koolaid while I screw you"?
James seems to have selective memory and forgot that soon after Apple dropped the price of the iPhone they issued credit to early adopters along with a confirmation directly from Steve Jobs that they do not intend to punish early adopters.
suemcc wrote:
I was just told by a very exasperated repair rep in Virginia that Canon has no plans to announce any additional repairs to the 1DmkIII and that the AF of the repaired cameras is outperforming all other EOS cameras.
Susan
Well, that doesn't say a whole lot for Canon's other EOS cameras does it? From the polls and comments from dealers and pros it seems that about 15-20% of the bodies have serious problems with AF. If this is their standard of excellence Nikon and Sony aren't even have to break into a sweat to clobber them.
AJ Nadershahi wrote:
James seems to have selective memory and forgot that soon after Apple dropped the price of the iPhone they issued credit to early adopters along with a confirmation directly from Steve Jobs that they do not intend to punish early adopters.
Canon could learn something from this.
excuse me the credit that apple gave was only usable for additional apple products. so what you call a credit was never out of their pocket overall. its much cheaper to give what is truely not the same value. that is selective too.
sjms wrote:
excuse me the credit that apple gave was only usable for additional apple products. so what you call a credit was never out of their pocket overall. its much cheaper to give what is truely not the same value. that is selective too.
Certainly a full cash refund would be the best deal. But considering that most iPhone owners purchase additional products from Apple, it's still a pretty good deal. It's certainly more than Canon has done for it's customers for what looks to be almost a year from when the fiasco started. There hasn't even been a hint of "sorry, we promise to do right and regain your trust."
mcaswell wrote:
Yes, and that's the problem... "VIP" MkIII owners are being kept in the know by Canon, while the rest of us are left to speculate wildly as to what is going on. Note, the story says "have developed", not "are developing". In other words, it's done. If that's the case, why have we not heard any official word from Canon? Perhaps they're still working on the logistics of how the repair will be executed, but even if that's the case, a simple press release announcing the repair, and stating that the exact details will be forthcoming, would quell the (justified) speculation that maybe the wallet is closed, and only "VIP" shooters will get this fix (or camera swap), leaving everyone else with substandard MkIIIs.
? 