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Archive 2007 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken

  
 
apdieb
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p.39 #1 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Wow.. what an interesting response.

Let me sum up the point of HROW's test as I see it. One shot was manually focused and the other was using AF. The AF shot consistently was not as sharp. I think that is what the situation is if I am not mistaken. No scientific testing.. just real world shooting environment for many.

FWIW



Feb 02, 2008 at 12:09 AM
Monito
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p.39 #2 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


apdieb wrote:
Wow.. what an interesting response. Let me sum up the point of HROW's test as I see it. One shot was manually focused and the other was using AF. The AF shot consistently was not as sharp. I think that is what the situation is if I am not mistaken. No scientific testing.. just real world shooting environment for many. FWIW


Yes, you are mistaken. There is a back story. He did more than one shot each, 35 shots in all, the shots were not "real world", he did make attempts to control a few variables.



Feb 02, 2008 at 01:10 AM
Jeff
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p.39 #3 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Just for the record, I had to post this:

From Rob Galbraith today:

February 3, 2008: Canon USA informing VIPs of new EOS-1D Mark III AF fix

Starting on February 1, 2008, Canon USA began informing key photographers and key organizations using the EOS-1D Mark III that engineers at Canon in Japan have developed a new fix for the camera's autofocus, a fix that's in addition to the change in the sub-mirror mechanism and firmware updates introduced in 2007.

In closed door meetings at the PMA 2008 trade show in Las Vegas, at Super Bowl XLII in Phoenix, Arizona and on the phone, by our count it's a minimum of four different professional market
...Show more

One now has to wonder if this holds anything in store for the 1Ds MkIII or 40D...



Feb 03, 2008 at 04:44 PM
SLD
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p.39 #4 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Jeff wrote:
One now has to wonder if this holds anything in store for the 1Ds MkIII or 40D...


I would say the 40D should be safe, but the 1Ds Mark III, i am not sure....



Feb 03, 2008 at 04:47 PM
72chevelle454
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p.39 #5 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Well... take this for what its worth...

from this page http://www.birdsasart.com/bn253.htm

by ART MORRIS "The 70-200 f/4 is great for travel because of its light weight, especially when it is likely that you will be photographing birds or other wildlife at close range. And the more I use the 1Ds III the more I love it. Focusing is consistently more accurate then with my main MIII body (even after the sub-mirror fix). I need to try one of my back-up MIII bodies on the 500 and give it a good test. The California race of Brown Pelican is stunning in breeding plumage with the brightly colored bill pouch, especially the red at the base."



Feb 03, 2008 at 05:07 PM
Jeff
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p.39 #6 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


That guy waffles back and forth quicker than some of the birds he shoots! If I remember correctly, he was generally pleased with the performance of his first 1D MkIII, which he said didn't really need to be fixed. After the fix (or maybe he got a BD), then he was raving about how fantastic the thing focused. Now, when trickles of a new fix started to be heard, he's back to not being completely happy with his 1D MkIII, at least in comparison to his 1Ds MkIII. Don't pin me to the wall on the actual chain of events, as I don't follow what he writes, but I do recall the pattern of his waffle to be something like that...

He's got himself in a corner now, though, if the 1Ds MkIII is revealed to have the same defect. It really makes you wonder if that's why they have been so hard to come by since release. After all, the fewer Canon lets out, the fewer they'd have to fix. Given how many people have boasted about being 100% happy with the performance of their 1D MkIII, it really makes you wonder if this 'new' and underlying AF problem might also exist in the 1Ds MkIII, despite no widely reported issues.



Feb 03, 2008 at 05:29 PM
72chevelle454
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p.39 #7 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


I hear ya Jeff, thats why I put "take this for what its worth" I was seeing the same chain of events coming from Art as you described per-zactly.



Feb 03, 2008 at 09:19 PM
Paul B
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p.39 #8 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Jeff wrote:
That guy waffles back and forth quicker than some of the birds he shoots! If I remember correctly, he was generally pleased with the performance of his first 1D MkIII, which he said didn't really need to be fixed. After the fix (or maybe he got a BD), then he was raving about how fantastic the thing focused. Now, when trickles of a new fix started to be heard, he's back to not being completely happy with his 1D MkIII, at least in comparison to his 1Ds MkIII. Don't pin me to the wall on the actual chain of events,
...Show more

If I recall correctly, he said he was pleased with the MkIII and then described his technique for photographing BIF which involved basically using manual focus until snapping the 2-3 frames he needed (i.e. not using the servo as it's supposed to work.) This is supposedly the way he's always done BIF but I'm not sure most BIFers do it this way (it's certainly a technique that people talk about but I'm not sure everyone uses manual focus to that extent when tracking birds.) I also seem to recall that he relayed the comments of people in his normal photo group (the "posse") and they were split right down the middle on whether the system worked properly (two of his group have since sold their Canon gear and gone Nikon.) So I don't know that I would say he has waffled back and forth (that would imply a definitive statement.) It's more like "stressing the positive" and yet leaving open some doors to people who like to read between the lines that maybe, just maybe, there were some issues that need addressing......



Feb 03, 2008 at 11:21 PM
sritri
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p.39 #9 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Disclaimer : I currently do not own a MK-III.

I'm very uncomfortable about the timing of Canon's apparent rumor, on the day of SuperBowl or a couple day's before ? Are they trying dodge pro photographers' irk by saying 'we-told-you-not-to-depend-100%-on-your-MKIII' if they get OOF shots because of the AF issue ??



Feb 04, 2008 at 01:19 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.39 #10 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


A new fix? That is getting pathetic….

And can someone please explain to me the verb waffle? I only know it as an edible noun.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Feb 04, 2008 at 03:21 AM
Monito
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p.39 #11 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Yakim Peled wrote:
A new fix? That is getting pathetic….


Some people are never satisfied. If there were no new fix, they would complain. With a new fix, they complain.

You really want no improvements? OK. For you, we have a special deal. No fixes, no firmware updates, no updates to DPP.



Feb 04, 2008 at 04:33 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.39 #12 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Monito wrote:
Some people are never satisfied. If there were no new fix, they would complain. With a new fix, they complain.

You really want no improvements? OK. For you, we have a special deal. No fixes, no firmware updates, no updates to DPP.


They waited ~6 months to put out the first fix. One may think that when a large company like Canon takes such a long time they to investigate things, they could get it right the first time.

I can tell you what I think. I think that from the beginning they should announce publicly: We are investigating it. Then, after the problem is located and fix is found (and I mean a complete fix, not half-baked one) they should state that you can either fix your camera or replace it with a new one, free of charge.

In Israel one of the cellular companies had a major fault in their Motorola handsets some time ago. They build up a vast compounds in several major locations in Israel and replaced them for free. You wanted upgrade to compensate for the grief? You got it. Free. The CEO himself was there to make sure all is going well.

And please note. It was not their problem. It was a problem of one of their major handset suppliers. However, as it were their customers, they went all out to rectify things.

Public image is important. A stain on your name is not easily forgotten and - at least IMHO - it is well worth spending money to get your customers satisfied.

But as always, YMMV.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Added: Look at the subject name of the Israeli thread discussing this: "looks like the mkIII bullshit continues...." I did not write this. Also, I know you can't read Hebrew so I'll tell you that most posters (and, of course, the OP) feel just like me.

http://d-spot.co.il/forum/index.php?showtopic=142851

Edited by Yakim Peled on Feb 04, 2008 at 03:12 PM GMT



Feb 04, 2008 at 04:54 AM
Alistair Watson
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p.39 #13 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Yakim Peled wrote:
And can someone please explain to me the verb waffle? I only know it as an edible noun.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.



www.dictionary.com lists 'Waffle' - to talk foolishly or without purpose; idle away time talking. Quite alof of this going on at the moment!



Feb 04, 2008 at 04:56 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.39 #14 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Thanks. I went to MW but now I see I overlooked the fact the there were 5 entries….

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Feb 04, 2008 at 05:00 AM
inness
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p.39 #15 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Monito wrote:
Nice try. No prize. No meaningful result. Sorry.


You failed to notice that he had said that IS was turned of, so why should we think that anything you said makes sense.
I have asked other people to tell me what is the best test, can you tell us what is the best way to test this camera.

All the good people on this forum who present us with their photos and tests, seem to get knocked on the head by people quoting reasons why the test is rubbish, so instead of knocking other peoples efforts to test, please put forward your test and photos.
Bob



Feb 04, 2008 at 04:54 PM
Jeff
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p.39 #16 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


inness wrote:
You failed to notice that he had said that IS was turned of, so why should we think that anything you said makes sense.
I have asked other people to tell me what is the best test, can you tell us what is the best way to test this camera.

All the good people on this forum who present us with their photos and tests, seem to get knocked on the head by people quoting reasons why the test is rubbish, so instead of knocking other peoples efforts to test, please put forward your test and photos.
Bob


I'll be honest with you, now that most of the AI Servo/AF issues revolving around the submirror have been fixed, it's much more difficult to accurately and specifically 'test' the camera. However, even the submirror 'fix' isn't fixing some cameras, and there are apparently Blue Dot cameras that have lingering issues as well (my current BD does not in relation to the submirror, though my first camera still didn't work after having gone back to Canon twice). You really need to go out and use it in a variety of conditions, with a variety of lenses (especially f/2.8 lenses), and scrutinize the images in relation to the results you feel you should have gotten given the techniques that you used. Examining the files at 100% view is required for this task, and it takes time and energy.

There are still fairly widespread reports of 'occasional' OOF images for no good reason, with no apparent plane of focus, nor any indication of front- or back-focusing. Also look for 'ghosting', or a sort of secondary image registration in one plane that looks like camera movement, but it is not (I've seen it at 1/8000th; see Rob G's most recent 'fast runner' series for examples, or the first page of this thread). I have not seen this 'ghosting' with my new Blue Dot, but I've only had the opportunity to put 400 images through it, mostly AI Servo testing (BTW, a runner coming at the camera using an f/2.8 telephoto lens is best for this test; center-point only, no expansion, default AI Tracking Sensitivity, 10 FPS). Lastly, the 'focal plane' (also referred to by some as 'fine detail smearing'?) issues that are also described in this thread are noted on Blue Dot models, mine included, thought to what extent I remain unsure, as I haven't been able to do much 'landscape' style testing, which highlights this issue rather well.

For what it's worth, many former users of MkII/n's simply say that the MkIII just doesn't quite live up to the performance of the MkIIn, and by Canon's own admission, it should have. I admit we're starting to split hairs here, because many people don't initially notice issues with their camera, especially if they use it for only certain types of shooting. My Blue Dot version is so much better than my early-production model that I am impressed, but the inconsistency in some of the results described above is hard to nail down without shooting a lot, using various techniques and lenses.

I know that probably isn't as definitive as what you'd hoped for, but that's all I've got.

-Jeff

PS: It will be interesting if someone's post about a 'harmonic balancer' being required for the fix ends up being true, as it would suggest that there is some sort of vibration issue going on...



Feb 04, 2008 at 09:31 PM
inness
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p.39 #17 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Jeff wrote:
I know that probably isn't as definitive as what you'd hoped for, but that's all I've got.

-Jeff

PS: It will be interesting if someone's post about a 'harmonic balancer' being required for the fix ends up being true, as it would suggest that there is some sort of vibration issue going on...


Many thanks for your posting, yes I have been following the debate here and on Rob G's pages.

I have a blue dot 1D lll and quite a few 2.8 L's ( oneday I may upgrade my sig ). I am in an electric wheelchair, so I dare not stand in front of runners . My copy seems to be ok, and I am the kind of person who never sells things, so for me it is ok, however if I can't test it, I may never know until I take a set of photos in the right circumstances, but then it may be too late. ( as in I may no longer be able to reproduce the photo that I wanted to take. )

Bob



Feb 05, 2008 at 09:45 AM
Jeff
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p.39 #18 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


inness wrote:
"...( oneday I may upgrade my sig )..."


Wow, no kidding Bob! I'd say you're a few generations behind!

Take care,

Jeff

PS: Once Canon admits to (and hopefully describes) the actual problem, it may become more clear how to test specifically for it, depending on how much detail they provide us.



Feb 05, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Hrow
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p.39 #19 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


Just got off the phone with Canon for the gizzilionth time after they didn't keep a scheduled call appointment, or return calls and played customer hand-off. At least they have come to their senses and decided that focusing with the * button is not the cause of the problems. I guess this is progress, not that they are willing to do anything to actually correct the situation but they are getting less idiotic about it. Moving up the food chain - hopefully - will see if I get a promised call from someone higher up in Customer Relations.




Feb 07, 2008 at 04:32 PM
Jeff
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p.39 #20 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken


OK, so I finally got to take the new Blue Dot out for some actual shooting this weekend. Not bad with most of the AI Servo stuff, certainly a whole lot better than before...







Feb 11, 2008 at 01:44 AM
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