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Archive 2007 · D300/1D2 AF test

  
 
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #1 · D300/1D2 AF test


Yah, the first useful test I've seen of the AF performance of the new D300. Exactly what I wanted to see. Been toying with the idea of getting a D300 rather than 40D to partner my 1D II and 5D. I would though like to see Nikon offer an improved 80-400 though or offer something comparable to the Canon 400 f/5.6L but of course with VR. Then I'd have no hesitation as I'd like to try this for birding.

Maybe some here can tell me if the Nikon's x-type sensors have a high performance mode when using fast (f/2.8 or faster) glass, like the Canons do?



Dec 08, 2007 at 07:59 AM
nikt
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p.2 #2 · D300/1D2 AF test


It's good to hear the AF works very well on the D300 from someone who's used it, and a 1D.

I've had a stupid grin on my face since using the D3 and D300 in the dark a few months ago. Got slammed by some Canon users, and even some Nikon users as well actually. Theory. Thats what it seemed to be all about sometimes, so this type of usage is good.

But I do wonder what the reaction would have been had the conclusion been that you said the Canon AF was better. This forum and the users have been getting slammed lately, and we've become a little thin skinned. Me too.

PS Stupid grin , not gone!




Dec 08, 2007 at 09:48 AM
Ken Murray
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p.2 #3 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Bill:

Did the D300 have a shutter noise dampener or was it low noise.

Nikon Lenses:

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5



Dec 08, 2007 at 05:40 PM
kmawson
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p.2 #4 · D300/1D2 AF test


Bill, Awesome image's,Thankyou for sharing.
Kevin.



Dec 08, 2007 at 07:53 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #5 · D300/1D2 AF test


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yah, the first useful test I've seen of the AF performance of the new D300. Exactly what I wanted to see. Been toying with the idea of getting a D300 rather than 40D to partner my 1D II and 5D. I would though like to see Nikon offer an improved 80-400 though or offer something comparable to the Canon 400 f/5.6L but of course with VR. Then I'd have no hesitation as I'd like to try this for birding.?


I tried a few shots of birds with the D300 and the 80-400, and shot some with the 1Ds2 and 300 f2.8IS plus 1.4x at the same time,

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/Trial-Web/PhotoAlbum262.html

and they did not compare well. (The Canon images were much better). This may have been a function of the lens I have, or the fact it was still back focusing, even after I dialed in all the correction available. It sure is a nice, light, easy to use combination, and I would love to see more bird images from the D300 and 80-400. For what it is worth, when I first contacted Nikon with questions about the D3 (a couple of months ago), the rep who called told me they expected an update for the 80-400. That said, Canon told me that about the 200 f2.0IS forever ago, and that lens has just been announced.



Dec 09, 2007 at 09:09 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #6 · D300/1D2 AF test


nikt wrote:
It's good to hear the AF works very well on the D300 from someone who's used it, and a 1D.

I've had a stupid grin on my face since using the D3 and D300 in the dark a few months ago. Got slammed by some Canon users, and even some Nikon users as well actually. Theory. Thats what it seemed to be all about sometimes, so this type of usage is good.

But I do wonder what the reaction would have been had the conclusion been that you said the Canon AF was better. This forum and the users have been
...Show more

This “us against them” thing puzzles me. It is unpleasant too. People have a variety of different needs and wants, and Nikon has increased the range of choices for us. I tried a D3 yesterday (briefly) and the Nikon rep gave me the name of a person at Nikon to contact about the availability of a D3. I emailed last night and told him I wanted to order one.



Dec 09, 2007 at 09:10 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #7 · D300/1D2 AF test


Ken Murray wrote:
Hi Bill:

Did the D300 have a shutter noise dampener or was it low noise.



Sorry Ken, but I didn’t even think to check. I was solely focused on the AF performance, and quite frankly was so excited about the quality and ease with which I was getting these images, that I just did not look at anything else on the camera. I did try a 1D3 in silent mode and compare it to my Leica M8 (because shutter sound is sometimes an issue for me). The actual shutter sound of the Canon in silent mode was quieter/less obtrusive than the Leica, but there was a secondary sound when I released the shutter button and the mirror returned, so it was pretty much a wash between the two cameras. The M8 is a lot louder and intrusive than the film Ms.

Thanks for the link!



Dec 09, 2007 at 09:11 AM
Ken Murray
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p.2 #8 · D300/1D2 AF test


Thanks Bill! Great bird shots! That's not the camera doing that!!!


Dec 09, 2007 at 10:52 AM
Thang
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p.2 #9 · D300/1D2 AF test


Bill -

In regard to difficulty in tracking flying birds with the 1dII, I am sure that is has to do with either or both of the following:

1. choice of lens used
2. the user

You should take a look at Jody Melanson's and "Photonutt's" works over at the nature/wildlife forum. If these guys can get tack sharp images of SMALL FAST flying birds like swallow and blue jay, then the 1dII should be able to get sharp images of a running dog as well.

Your experience of unable to get high % sharp images from the 1dII has nothing to do with the camera. I am both a nikon and canon shooter. I have shot with the 1DII for over 2 years. I have also used the d2x and d200 for over a year as well. Just recently got the d300 and have been playing with it quite a bit (over 4k shots) with the 200-400 VR.

My impression so far (since I have not used the d300 long enough) is that the 1DII is still the king in AF performance for fast/small flying birds, both in acquisition/locking/tracking.

Time will tell...



Dec 13, 2007 at 01:32 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #10 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Thang,

Some of the best photography I can remember seeing is on this site, but I disagree with your premise that correctly focused pictures of flying birds, means my comparative difficulty with maintaining focus on fast, erratic, dark dogs is a problem caused by me, and not the cameras. (“Your experience of unable to get high % sharp images from the 1dII has nothing to do with the camera.”).

I can post tens of thousands of pictures of in focus dogs - there are a number here, mostly taken with the 1D2,
http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/Trial-Web/PhotoAlbum262.html
and I do use the 70-200f2.8IS and 300f2.8IS lenses, which are fast focusing Canon lenses. My experience with dogs - not birds - which I tried to explain as clearly as possible, is that with the Canons (1D2 and 1Ds2), to have any change of success, you have to use a single AF point (and I do expand it), which is very difficult to keep positioned on the face of a fast moving dog. In your mind, picture a dog’s face constantly changing position, erratically and at high speed on your viewfinder screen. The Nikon allowed me to use its 21 and 51 point setting, and this gave me a much higher success (in focus) rate than the Canons, plus it is far easier to do, and allows me to concentrate on the action, not on the video game-like business of placing a red dot on a moving object. This appears to be difference in the way Nikon and Canon AF systems function. This is a typical example from an older Nikon (F5), which also worked this way,
http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/Bouvier%20activities/Niko-snow,%2313.jpg

Birds tend to fly in a straight line, and you only have to keep the focus point on the bird, not on a black face bobbing all over the place. I do very little bird in flight photography, but for what I have photographed, having a high percentage in focus has not been an issue for me with the Canons - nor, as I stated, is motorsports or human sports. In my experience, erratic motion, motion which goes quickly form static to speed, and fast action very near and straight into the camera present the greatest challenges for an AF system. It may well be that your Canon focuses better for you on birds than your D300. If I thought differently, I would not feel compelled to tell you the problem is you, not the camera. Here is my flying bird,
http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/180-300/Osprey,5489.jpg

And this photographer used a D300 with the 200-400,
http://www.pbase.com/raymondjbarlow/image/90251903
the same setup that you are not satififed with
( https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/594026 ). Those flying owls are heading into the camera and there is a distracting background, yet they are tack sharp. Maybe he would give you some pointers?

Good luck!

Bill



Dec 13, 2007 at 06:22 PM
Thang
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p.2 #11 · D300/1D2 AF test


Bill - looking at these images, the subjects are BIG comparing to flying tree swallows. Have you seen these birds? they are smaller than the size of your palm! And no, they don't fly in straight line. To me, ospreys are big subjects. Again, either the 1DII or the d300 should be able to capture the ospreys well. Heck, even my d200 and d50 can do the job. With the 45-AF point of the 1dII (assuming your 1dII is at spec), you should not have any issue with tracking these dogs.

Your links to pictures from Raymond (a talented photographer) and mine only proof my point even further. It has nothing to do with the gears (1d2 and d300). B/t these cameras, it has to do with the users.



Dec 13, 2007 at 07:29 PM
Cubfan
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p.2 #12 · D300/1D2 AF test


When I win the lottery, first purchase will be the 200-400 for me.


Dec 13, 2007 at 08:44 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #13 · D300/1D2 AF test


I would love to try one, along with a 300f2.8. I use the Canon 300f2.8 quite a bit, but for so much of my photography, the 200-400 range is perfect. However, Nikon people seem to be divided into two camps. One side insists the big zoom is difficult to hold beyond what would be expected by its weight, and attribute this to the length of the lens, and say the 300 f2.8 is sharper and focuses faster. Then I see other users insist it is excellent (and examples like those owl pics at f4.0 certainly reinforce their opinions ). There are times, especially this time of year, when I am using ISO3200 at f2.8 and 1/250th, which is too slow to stop action. Also, does the Nikon (D3/D300) AF system work as well at f4.0 as it does at f2.8?

The 300 is easy to come by, but I don’t know where a 200-400 is available for rent.



Dec 15, 2007 at 08:31 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.2 #14 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Thang,

In this thread,

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=25995393

I think you will find Marianna Oellund, in two responses, provides a very specific, detailed explanation of the differences between the Nikon and Canon 1D series AF, and why the Nikon works better for the kind of subjects she is photographing. Her experience is exactly the same as mine, and is what I was trying to convey when I made my post here. I hope you find this interesting and helpful and develop a warm spot in your heart for that D300 of yours. Happy shooting!

Bill




Dec 15, 2007 at 08:36 AM
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