Jack Stravage wrote:
WOW!!
You sure have a way with words..
Give Bella what they pay for send in your helper, to do the shoot.
Bella is to the wedding photography industry what the Oil Companies are to the Burglar Alarm companies the Oil Companies came in and starter giving Free Alarm Systems with a small monthly fee before that an alarm comp would get 3 to 5 thousand to install a system in a home, (the Oil Comp. never did go away just kept on growing and now a power in the industry) the smart companies would have nothing to do with it they just looked for add on and better product, maybe you should have two products one for Bella one for yourself, If you are giving the same package for two different prices than you will feel the pain when caught. If not you have to let your client know, what they are getting for their money besides you as the shooter. You are getting caught in the trap because you have become the product not what you produce.
Just my 2 cents ...Show more →
Oh Jack - if only that were true. The oil companies do not develop lists of the burglar alarm clients and phone them individually making claims based on besmirchment and calumny.
The oil companies - I think you mean the downstream retailers - play by a fairly well enforced set of rules.
A more true analogy would be of certain Oil companies operating in the Sudan or Kenya - ignoring local custom and the rules of their homeland - placing unsafe installation within reach of children and village. Blaming villagers when countless hundreds lie maimed and burning on the parched earth wretching from the oil stained air.
And - it is not a matter of product - it is a matter of predation and cowardice and bullying in the abscence of conscience or accountability. Steer your daughters clear of these molesters and agents of debasement.
NASLAND wrote:
By being on a list like this...aren't you really cutting your own throat?
Yes, you are cutting your own throat: stepping in dog feces and then tracking it all through the house. We have a responsibility to protect our children and our families from thieves and pimps - no matter the cclloak they wear.
Let me see if I have this right your saying only a fool would place himself on Bella’s list for a few pieces of silver that is going to destroy his good name and business?
rockit wrote:
how much does bella pay for shooting a wedding for them. what does that entail? do you have to process? design? etc.
My understanding is you meet the Bride about a month before, you shoot only, and JPGs at that (well, that's what they want). No idea on how many or few shots they prefer. that's all you do.
They claim to pay well, but in another thread here I believe their founder said the average photog got, what was it, $275 for 8 hours (they only sell 8 hour packages).
In my market the average is about $2000. Bella's prices are a good $1000 more than that on average. I can't see why I'd shoot for $300 for a bride willing to spend $3500 - I can't stay in photography with a plan like that.
im looking into possibly shooting for them but not for that money. im leaving the studio ive worked for for 5 years and i need samples. i have experience but have very few usage rights for what ive captured over that time. bella seems to be a good place to get some samples without linking myself to a specific company for the future.
if i were ready to open my own business, things would be different.
rockit wrote:
$275 for 8 hours? damn. i can assist for more.
im looking into possibly shooting for them but not for that money. im leaving the studio ive worked for for 5 years and i need samples. i have experience but have very few usage rights for what ive captured over that time. bella seems to be a good place to get some samples without linking myself to a specific company for the future.
if i were ready to open my own business, things would be different.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding you will have NO rights to the images you take under Bella.
rockit wrote:
im looking into possibly shooting for them but not for that money. im leaving the studio ive worked for for 5 years and i need samples. i have experience but have very few usage rights for what ive captured over that time. bella seems to be a good place to get some samples without linking myself to a specific company for the future.
if i were ready to open my own business, things would be different.
So - you are one of those naive desperate ones? Stand above the weak frey and get your own clients somehow - every nickel you give to the bloodsuckers leaves you meek and bleeding on the ground.
I shot(video) a Greek Wedding this past summer. There were a total of three photographers the entire day. Two photogs shot the bridal prep and all three shot the ceremony and reception. Earlier that day I ask one of the photogs the name of their company. They replied they work for Bella and none of them knew each other. There only allowed to shoot JPEG's and got paid $450 for the day. At first, I thought, man the B/G must have paid a lot of money for three photographers until I found out that they worked for Bella and that they were only getting $450.
Make no mistake the B&G paid in around average market value or more for their wedding but it all went to Bella. Typically it works out they pay a primary within a range of about $400 - $1000 (I image there aren't many photogs that get the high range, but to be truthful I can't say for sure, I have no evidence that is just my impression based on the photogs that have disclosed what they have been paid) but the B&G pay the average price which lands in around $2500 - $3500. The photographer shows up, shoots the wedding, supplies the jpg's to Bella and he is done.
Not really too bad huh? Where else can you get paid $450 for a days work?
Not too fast. We aren't talking about a 5 day a week job are we, so it doesn't work out the same in the math end. More importantly however is the issue the OP brought up. What do you do when a client scrounges up to pay you what you ask only later to find you work for less? What red blooded American (or Canadian for that matter, lets not leave those guys out eh? ) would go back and ask the photographer for an explanation? Yes sure you can explain you process all the images etc etc but really the value of your work in their minds has already dropped, the damage is already done. They feel gipped, it's just human.
Also consider a lot of the business in this industry is based on reputation and referral. Think twice, consider your options carefully.
No not everyone can afford average prices but it's not like Bella is charging substantially less are they.
You MUST shoot lower resolution JPG. They will "grade" you for how many shots you take. Too few means marks off. You must shoot about 6 weddings or so before you come up for review to see if you get raised from $300 - $350 or something like that. Thats if they decide you are "Bella" material. Be careful not to post here if you want to be in good standing with them as they watch it and will black ball you.
I shot as a pre-certified @ $350. The "certified "pro" I shot with was making $450. I saw the paperwork. I also saw the contracts, they are not cheap to the B&G. I felt I got jerked around about the pic's and strung along to "shoot just one more" before being reviewed and, "I know the contract says you only shoot for 6 hours but we want you for 8 to get a true feel of a Bella wedding". It's all a bunch of BS.
The day I posted here, not even negatively about Bella but it was in a negative thread they emailed me to say no more. What a coincidence. I had already refused to do anymore by then having "seen the light".
The pictures take a LONG time to be available for the B&G. No idea how long the albums take to be designed by a sweatshop in India.
If you miss a step in the process your pay is not processed. The pay takes a long time.
I think Red hit it on the head with all of his comments.
Qranc wrote:
Not really too bad huh? Where else can you get paid $450 for a days work?
Lots and lots of places.
Where else does the employer -
- insist you have your own tools
- expose you to the demanding whims of damanding folk who have been oversold
- leave you in the lurch
- not pay in a timely manner
- publicly undermine your efforts in contravention of agreement and decency
There are worse deals - Al Quada, Hezbollah - but there you get the virgins later on and we all know virgin brides are increasingly scarce.
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
So - you are one of those naive desperate ones? Stand above the weak frey and get your own clients somehow - every nickel you give to the bloodsuckers leaves you meek and bleeding on the ground.
. you certainly are very threatened by bella.
ive been a full time wedding photographer for a thriving, low volume studio for the past 5 years. i have over 200 weddings under my belt. im far from naive and im CERTAINLY not desperate. what im looking for now is a shoot and burn part time job while i get some things together.
i dont want to have to run a business and want to limit the amount of production i do. id like to keep my hand in the shooting for a while and go from there.
your vehemence is cute. did a bella executive dump you or leave you at the alter or something.
and for the record, i care about ME much, much more than i care about the industry.
and for the record, i care about ME much, much more than i care about the industry.
is really how you feel then you are probably perfectly suited for the Bella model.
Don't get R&R wrong, he may have a way with words but his issue deals with idealology far more than it does for himself individually. It's a matter of principle not a matter of self.
I care about the industry because without a healthy industry there is nothing for ME and that is the rub. That is the concern, you have an army of photogs running around shooting weddings in compressed jpg and don't even care what the final delivery amounts to because they have no connection with the B&G. They don't care, it's simply a ME affair (not all obviously but it becomes a volume thing and do it long enough you cannot help for that attitude to eventually consume you). You are the hired help, not the author, artist or person the the B&G have come to know and trust.
People like BEBB Studios find it important to ask their clients "do you trust us?" (from their blog) and we feel compelled to deliver our very best because we have a bond. I could not/would not feel any connection were I a Bella photographer.
I don't feel threatened and I can't speak for him but I am quite sure R&R doesn't either. This is all just my opinion of course but ... that business model is definitely not my style.
Hmm..it's mentioned here that the photog shoots med res JPG. The page above says the bride gets the HI_RES digital negatives. Hmm.
I would imagine most of what they sell is in the 2550-2900 range - but the actual details of what you get it not there. "10 inch premium album" is what exactly? Could be 10x10 or 8x10...30 sides is nice, but does that mean 30 images?
The photog gets $450 or less for 8 hours (all package are 8 hours) A second photog costs the Bride $800, but is probably costing bella $350 - not a bad markup IMO.
I personally would do 2 bridal shows to get 10 clients at $2500 each (top net 20,000 after expenses) rather than shoot and burn 44 weddings for bella ($20,000 divided by $450 per wedding).
Threatened - only in the same sense as when I walk through downtown Niagara Falls, Detroit, Buffalo, Rochester, Brownsville, Meridien, or Tulsa and see once thriving shops given over to homogenization and soulless corporations.
Craft aspiring to art and personal service are interesting hallmarks of the US wedding photo industry. Sites like this one and - more so - DWF - have photographers exchanging ideas and building on each other's enthusiasm. Everyone's main concern seems to be making sure the client is happy and that they themselves are proud of the images they capture and the albums and products they create.
Profit is important - but in this industry profit is a symptom of excellence rather than the goal when heading out the door. It leaves us tremendously proud to hand over work that thrills us first and later the couple and their families.
Bella is the snivelling loser in the back of the room dripping in slime and trying to figure out how much they can steal. At least Tony Soprano's crew did it with panache. George White and his cabal thieve through sleaze and drivel.
) would go back and ask the photographer for an explanation? Yes sure you can explain you process all the images etc etc but really the value of your work in their minds has already dropped, the damage is already done. They feel gipped, it's just human.