On the 20D, as on most Canon DSLRs (excluding the 5D, XTi/400D, and 1DmkIII), the top layer of the sensor "stack" is a glass cover with a dichroic coating that acts as a hot mirror to reflect infrared. That glass cover is supposed to be installed with the coating on the sensor side.
Occasionally the factory makes a mistake and the cover gets installed upside down in the sensor stack, with the coating on the outside. Clearly, that is what has happened here.
According to David Stone, President of Photographic Solutions (maker of Eclipse fluid), "IN EVERY case, the manufacturer returned the camera to them at NO CHARGE. It happens from time to time and to their credit, they have admitted their error every time we have run into this exact same situation."
The 5D, XTi/400D, and 1DmkIII intentionally have the dichroic mirror coating on the outside of the sensor stack, having dispensed with the cover glass entirely. The makers of Dust-Aid insist that it's still safe on those cameras, or at least on the 5D: http://www.dust-aid.com/5d.html
All-in-all, I am convinced that the filter stack on your sensor is defective and that if you'll give Canon the chance, they'll certainly replace it for free....Show more →
DavidP wrote:
I believe that they have completed their study, and that the conclusion was that IF you pulled off the coating using this method, then the coating must have been applied incorrectly.
Of course, it is always somebody else's fault . I think the coating of the AA filter was partly taken off by the AID. My friend, who repairs Canon (officially) for a living, has sent a request to Dust-Aid for samples so that he can test them on some of his no-good Canon sensors to see if the coating can be damaged by the AID. So far, he has not received any reply yet.
Not being there to see.....it sounds like he put the pad on the wrong side.....the low tack side goes to the sensor....the high tack is to the applicator...
"..........Currently, the technology solution does not deal with liquid or more stubborn contamination, so sensor cleaning swabs and sensor brushes are likely to have a place in the photographer’s tool kit for some time to come...."
The fault is not Dust Aid evidently, it is the factory installing the glass cover incorrectly, which you will find happens from time to time if you google for it (photo.net, dpreview). Send the camera in for a quote and see what they say. The untreated side of the glass cover is to go on the outside, so if Dust Aid pulled it off, Canon screwed up. No difference if you used Eclipse and Pecpads, the same coating that peeled up would have been affected by a wet cleaning as well.
And I don't understand why everyone thinks DustAid would have to cover the damages? 1) You are told by Canon to not attempt cleaning the sensor assembly yourself, and 2) Nobody forces you to sit down and clean your sensor, breaking guideline #1, with your chosen method. If you do this, you do it at your own risk, nobody to blame even if a product states it can be used to do this safely.
I doubt he put the wrong side of the adhesive down, it would be hard to do considering the way they packaged the pads.
Edited by TeamSpeed on May 25, 2007 at 11:28 PM GMT
tpsfoto wrote:
Not being there to see.....it sounds like he put the pad on the wrong side.....the low tack side goes to the sensor....the high tack is to the applicator...
How did he do that? If that was the case, wouldn't the pad stick to the sensor when he pulled the applicator off ? I assume that is the whole idea of how this product can work safely on a sensor.
Being one 1Ds photographer routinely suffered from dust spots, I love to see this product works as good as it claims. But, just be fair and reasonable when trying to find out what seemed to go wrong.
However, you still have some options if youare unable to get it corrected for free. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, you are part of the way to an IR modded camera. There is a demand for such modded cameras, which could lead you to two other options,
1. Sell it as is to someone wanting to mod the camera, at no cost to you to do so.
2. Have the mod done and sell it as a modded camera. I am not sure of the market for a modded 20D here, but there are several places where the market is much higher and you could probably sell it for a decent price within a week. I can suggest 2 specific places if that is of any interest to you, but per the guidelines here I don't think I should be publically linking to potential competitor sites (both are very reputable locations for such things).
Good luck getting it fixed though and hopefully Canon will fix it for you.
Jeff wrote:
Try cleaning it again, it certainly couldn't hurt (in any financially significant sort of way). FWIW, 'ripping off the AA filter' is an untenable scenario; it simply looks like you've spread some oily goo on the glass, and it thus needs to be (re-) cleaned. This assumes, of course, that you've used proper cleaning tools and technique.
Good luck.
I had a stubborn speck a couple years ago when i had my 20 and had to clean the sensor. But you may have something here because if it is goo as I had on mine it would only smear not come off. Lets just hope this is what has happened. To bad we con't see it better
Astronomy-photographers are always looking for modded cameras. The red end of the spectrum has some of the best nebulae! Either way you are not S.O.L. My friend has a 20Da. He has some of the best astro-photos! See what Canon will do. I used Dust-Aid on my 20D with no prob. I don't think he did it wrong. That sounds like a Canon goof up. My camera was a Canon refurb. Nothing like one on one bench work! Mack wanted me to send them the camera for a said amount(forgot what it was) plus shipping. Not really what I wanted to do. Called locally and it was over $150!! Good luck!
Is this the first time the glass in front of the sensor has ever been cleaned with anything that makes contact with the surface besides air from a blower? If not, maybe another cleaning product started the damage.
I have had no issues using the Dust-Aid on the 20D. The air rockets are great but they move dust around where it's not welcome.
tpsfoto wrote:
Not being there to see.....it sounds like he put the pad on the wrong side.....the low tack side goes to the sensor....the high tack is to the applicator...
DavidP wrote:
I believe that they have completed their study, and that the conclusion was that IF you pulled off the coating using this method, then the coating must have been applied incorrectly.
That is really bad logic, blaming the camera manufacturer for the incompatibility. I doubt that Canon make any claims regarding the durability of the coating or compatibility with adhesives.
tanglefoot47 wrote:
That thought ran through my mind also
I doubt this is the case. As another poster stated, the pad would probably stick to the filter if this were the case. The pad is designed so the sensor side is much less sticky than the wand side.
This clearly looks like a backwards filter installation by Canon. The 20D doesn't have the infamous tin oxide coating that the 5D (among other recent cameras) has. I'd give canon service a call.
walter23 wrote:
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be liable for this. You might want to investigate Dan Martin's suggestion - an IR mod is probably possible. Or you could spend the hundred or so to get a new glass filter installed, painful as that might be.
There may be someone out that that has converted a 20D to IR that still has an AA filter that is not being used. I know I still have the AA filter from the D70S that I converted last summer. Good luck.
JS
EB-1 wrote:
That is really bad logic, blaming the camera manufacturer for the incompatibility. I doubt that Canon make any claims regarding the durability of the coating or compatibility with adhesives.
What's "bad logic" is making conclusions without finding or reading the article to which I was referring.
On the 20D, as on most Canon DSLRs (excluding the 5D, XTi/400D, and 1DmkIII), the top layer of the sensor "stack" is a glass cover with a dichroic coating that acts as a hot mirror to reflect infrared. That glass cover is supposed to be installed with the coating on the sensor side.
Occasionally the factory makes a mistake and the cover gets installed upside down in the sensor stack, with the coating on the outside. Clearly, that is what has happened here.
According to David Stone, President of Photographic Solutions (maker of Eclipse fluid), "IN EVERY case, the manufacturer returned the camera to them at NO CHARGE. It happens from time to time and to their credit, they have admitted their error every time we have run into this exact same situation."
The 5D, XTi/400D, and 1DmkIII intentionally have the dichroic mirror coating on the outside of the sensor stack, having dispensed with the cover glass entirely. The makers of Dust-Aid insist that it's still safe on those cameras, or at least on the 5D: http://www.dust-aid.com/5d.html
All-in-all, I am convinced that the filter stack on your sensor is defective and that if you'll give Canon the chance, they'll certainly replace it for free....Show more →
It may be worth a try but I really wish you luck if you take it to Canon.
My experience with Canon Australia service has not been that pleasant. My 30D which is still under warranty, has had a scratch on the low pass filter since new but Canon say it is impossible for them to have done the damage, however since I have never touched the sensor I know I've not caused the scratch.
The cost of repair for me is almost the cost of a new body, lucky it does not effect the images.
. I think the coating of the AA filter was partly taken off by the AID. My friend, who repairs Canon (officially) for a living, has sent a request to Dust-Aid for samples so that he can test them on some of his no-good Canon sensors to see if the coating can be damaged by the AID. So far, he has not received any reply yet.