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Archive 2007 · Marketing Tips from the best!

  
 
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #1 · Marketing Tips from the best!


milanissimo wrote:
Thank you, that was woderful read. However, I'm positive that 99% of the information doesn't apply to my country.

I admit I don't visit exhibitions (those 3 in a year...) in a gallery. I saw 2 "exhibitions" in my school, the photos were terrible at best. I think I saw like 3 pictures that were properly processed, others were terrible. Those were made by students that actually study photography. Of course they were "highly intellectual" and "a level above the intelligence level of most of the viewers". Terrible....

I'm struggling to find a top quality lab which makes 11x17 inch
...Show more

1. You may have to move!

2. Use a lab out of your area, and have them send you your prints. I use "PhotoCraft" in downtown Portland Oregon, USA. If I did not use them, I'd use Ken Duncans lab in Australia: http://www.createdforlife.com

Good luck. And thanks.



Apr 09, 2007 at 08:28 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #2 · Marketing Tips from the best!


amulay wrote:
Mark,

Fantastic information. Thank you for being generous enough to share with all of us. I am sure that this information will be put to good use by more than just one person on this forum. My only question is do you have a good system for getting your portfolio in front of people in the first place. This seems to me like it would be the hardest thing to do when first starting out.

Andy


This is what Ken said that really spoke to me. Just keep it simple, pressure free. Don't try to sell people anything. Let them inquire, they will.

Basically the majority of folks out there, especially women, love to view beautiful imagery! Once folks begin to know that you do this, people will begin to show interest and curiosity. Then you just say, "Yes, I am a landscape photographer." "Would you like to see my portfolio?" Maybe not everyone, but they will say yes! Then you make an appointment to meet with them however works best. I just pull my work out in one big stack of 14X20's with mounted 12x18 photos on them, and wait till I have every one's attention, and then "bam" knock 'em out with one of my best to get their attention! I try not to talk too much, but just allow them to enjoy and process what they see. Often people are stunned. Often they will have questions. I stay calm and just answer them calmly. Then I flip to the next image, setting the one to the side on it's face. Then "bam" another great image! I try to not talk too much, and not interpret the image for them, but I enjoy just listening to what they say. Often they will be drawn to something, or notice something I did not. I generally affirm what they say. Like if they say "wow, that is absolutely breathtaking" I might say "I know, isn't it?" I never minimize my work, or point out flaws. Ever! I just let them see what they see. Once in a while if there is a story behind an image I might share it, if they are attracted to that image. But I don't like to tell many stories. Just maybe one or two, if you feel it is right to do so. I have hundreds of stories behind my images that are really cool, but I don't want to distract them from their viewing experience. You never know who you are with, how it will effect them, and what it might mean to you for the future! They might not buy, but they, for example, might tell someone! That someone may buy $2000 right there and then! So I treat everyone with respect, even if I think they will not buy. Keep it very, very free.
At some point they will ask if you sell them. I then usually explain the exclusivity of Limited Edition prints, and maybe a bit about the printing standards (the highest) I use. Then I remember what Ken said to me "Don't judge others by the size of your own pocketbook (AU for wallet)." And I just let the prices fall out of my mouth.

Oh my gosh, I forgot a really KEY part to all of this!!!! I'll just hit on it in PART 2 to this thread...

Have a large beautifully framed demo image, so folks can see what the large finished product looks like! Then they can relate to your portfolio images
Sooo important!

Anyway, I usually say this. "This size (the portfolio 12x18's) is the smallest I sell these images. And I sell them at 18 inches (I use my hands to show people how big I am talking about) 24 inches, 30 inches, 36 inches, and 40 inches. The prices are $400, 500, 600, 700, and 800. (my prices are actually going up a lot more very soon.)

If folks have any issues about the prices, I might mention that I do have a few "Open Editions" available for those who can not afford the exclusive Limited Editions (but I won't do this unless I know for absolute sure they are not going to buy). Of course the "Open Editions" are also not so spectacular either. But often someone will want to go through them again, and I let them, or help them. They find their favorite, and then ask about framing etc... I don't frame, so I refer them to a framer I trust. This is a whole other issue. I offer no discounts.

But that is generally how it goes. Sometimes they fork over cash, and once in a great while they might say "you want HOW much for that!" . You have to be prepared for that occasionally. No big deal. Ken says you have to go through a bunch of "No's" to get to the "Yeses." And the bottom line is not to be ashamed of your work that you put your heart and soul into! It is valuable, and once you realize that you will feel more and more comfortable making one on one's with people. I LOVE doing this. I did not at first (before I learned how to do it).

Hope it helps.



Apr 09, 2007 at 09:06 PM
Arglebargle
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p.2 #3 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Thanks for the great post!

-Al



Apr 09, 2007 at 09:38 PM
AK77
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p.2 #4 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Does anyone know any labs stateside that use Fuji FLEX Crystal Archive Professional paper and Durst Lambda printers?


Apr 09, 2007 at 10:07 PM
amulay
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p.2 #5 · Marketing Tips from the best!


mark70x70 wrote:
This is what Ken said that really spoke to me. Just keep it simple, pressure free. Don't try to sell people anything. Let them inquire, they will......

.....Hope it helps.



This info helps quite a bit. Thank you again for giving so much to this forum. I am sure that with your passion you will be quite successful.

Andy



Apr 10, 2007 at 12:19 AM
cpurves
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p.2 #6 · Marketing Tips from the best!


mark70x70 wrote:
I agree!

That is one reason we might be moving to Vegas this Fall. Talk about an economy!!! But at the same time, I remember Ken saying over and over "people relate to quality." So a person can do well in many locations, but many will have to move to a best location to take it to the next level.


Hi Mark - Definately, people relate to quality. Having read your words of wisdom I will attempt a showing at a couple of galleries instead of the art show route. I will be building my inventory of fine art images over the next little while. Thanks again for the motivational post.
Let us all know about the Vegas gallery when it's ready. We are going to Vegas next spring. Hopefully we can enjoy your work in person.

Cheers
Chris




Apr 10, 2007 at 01:10 AM
EOS20
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p.2 #7 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Thanks for all that info Mark! Look forward to reading part 2!

I've been a big fan of Ken Duncan's work, His photos are absolutely mind blowing!




Apr 10, 2007 at 07:26 AM
leapin26
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p.2 #8 · Marketing Tips from the best!


This is excellent stuff, Mark. Thank you very much. It sure gives me a lot to think about.

Here's my question for you, and perhaps it is a bit silly. But what I am wondering about regarding the people to whom you show your portfolio ... how and where do you meet these people who want to see your portfolio? Are they just people you meet on the street? or do they come to you wanting to see your stuff? or ?




Apr 10, 2007 at 02:29 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #9 · Marketing Tips from the best!


EOS20 wrote:
Thanks for all that info Mark! Look forward to reading part 2!

I've been a big fan of Ken Duncan's work, His photos are absolutely mind blowing!



Ever see one in real life! Geeeze, like 70 inches +. His file sizes are well into the gigs.



Apr 10, 2007 at 08:22 PM
AK77
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p.2 #10 · Marketing Tips from the best!


I was wondering exactly what Leon (leapin26) asked above: How and where and under what circumstances do you meet the people you show your portfolio to?


Apr 10, 2007 at 08:36 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #11 · Marketing Tips from the best!


leapin26 wrote:
This is excellent stuff, Mark. Thank you very much. It sure gives me a lot to think about.

Here's my question for you, and perhaps it is a bit silly. But what I am wondering about regarding the people to whom you show your portfolio ... how and where do you meet these people who want to see your portfolio? Are they just people you meet on the street? or do they come to you wanting to see your stuff? or ?



Great question!


I am passionate about what I do and everyone who knows me knows about that. That is where it all starts. Word of mouth. I ask everyone I know (that question Ken taught me: "Hey, would you like to see my portfolio?"). Then as more images get sold, and more people hear about my work, more people want to see my work. It just grows. So, basic networking. Some days you won't feel like doing it, and no problem. But other days you will think of creative ways to connect up with people. I put together a totally amazing multimedia presentation that touches on spirituality/creation/ and imagery. There is little text, but the song is heavenly/ethereal and matches my work well. I started by showing it to a little retreat group at some counseling organization. I did not even go to the retreat, but my wife did. We did it to touch peoples hearts and bring healing. Well I GOT MOBBED afterward!!! So many people said, I did not know you were such an awesome photographer!!! They asked many questions. Then they wanted to buy the DVD. I do NOT sell them. Ken said that you don't want your stuff - at least the limited editions - in the common place. It will erode the value of your prints (like post cards, calanders, in magazines, on coffee shop walls...). So I said "sorry I do not sell the DVD, but I do sell Limited Edition Fine Art Gallery Prints for a living - wanna see my portfolio?." Many were interested. And I got a few sales. I did this at three functions total. In Vegas, the largest church down there has so far open their door to me! Next time I am down, they are going to let me play this DVD there, and maybe talk a bit about what I do. And have a small exhibition in the lobby. This church has 5000 members!!!
So, I am basically saying get creative and go out when you feel like it and network. Never pushy. If you have the quality work (this is the key) people will love to see it. It is almost like you are doing them a favor, not the other way around. But always do it freely, entirely.

Hope it helps!


Edited by mark70x70 on Apr 10, 2007 at 05:41 PM GMT

Edited by mark70x70 on Apr 10, 2007 at 05:43 PM GMT



Apr 10, 2007 at 08:39 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #12 · Marketing Tips from the best!


AK77 wrote:
I was wondering exactly what Leon (leapin26) asked above: How and where and under what circumstances do you meet the people you show your portfolio to?


See my reply previous to this one...



Apr 10, 2007 at 08:40 PM
justino
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p.2 #13 · Marketing Tips from the best!


it's people like you who make this place what it is, thanks for sharing all of this info! i would love to do this full time, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen (maybe after i retire from my current job.....28 short yrs from now i plan on slowly building my portfolio and hopefully a few years from now start making a little money off of my hobby!

Thanks again!
Justin
http://www.justinorourke.com



Apr 10, 2007 at 09:06 PM
boomertim1
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p.2 #14 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Mark
Can you take a few shots of your portfolio? Would love to see them and how they look with all of the work you've put into this!

Great Job
Tim



Apr 10, 2007 at 11:02 PM
Drew Sinclair
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p.2 #15 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Hi mark, first of all thank you for such and amazing article. I'm sure your very overwhelmed already but if you have the time please describe how the following is done.

Of course I am talking about 400ppi TIFF's perfectly processed for that paper.

To what extent of preparation is needed and what do you do to get a picture ready for printing after normal pp. Or to make it easy what do you do. I'm sure many fm'ers would like to try a print done on such quality paper myself included.

Thanks for your time
Drew Sinclair



Apr 11, 2007 at 01:11 AM
mkweaver
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p.2 #16 · Marketing Tips from the best!


Thanks so much for sharing all this!
I'll repeat a previous question: Does anyone know where we can find a lab that uses this printer and this paper?
For this quality?

Again, Thanks!



Apr 11, 2007 at 02:31 PM
Jon Buder
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p.2 #17 · Marketing Tips from the best!


He linked to the lab that his friend owns (createdforlife.com), which prints on that paper. I requested a price list from their site, and this is what they sent. Even if it costs twice that after shipping, the prices aren't bad at all.



Apr 11, 2007 at 03:48 PM
DopamineHunter
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p.2 #18 · Marketing Tips from the best!


MadMan2k wrote:
He linked to the lab that his friend owns (createdforlife.com), which prints on that paper. I requested a price list from their site, and this is what they sent. Even if it costs twice that after shipping, the prices aren't bad at all.


If you're doing prints smaller than 12x18 (or is it 8x12), use Costco (if you have one close by), you can download the costco fuji printer profiles from www.drycreekphoto.com




Apr 11, 2007 at 05:00 PM
Bethany Kamman
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p.2 #19 · Marketing Tips from the best!


He linked to the lab that his friend owns (createdforlife.com), which prints on that paper. I requested a price list from their site, and this is what they sent. Even if it costs twice that after shipping, the prices aren't bad at all.

Thanks for the link. Any idea if this price list is in US or in AU currency?



Apr 12, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.2 #20 · Marketing Tips from the best!


boomertim1 wrote:
Mark
Can you take a few shots of your portfolio? Would love to see them and how they look with all of the work you've put into this!

Great Job
Tim


Tim, I can do that, but if you read everything (a lot to read!) I am still in process to get it to the level Ken showed me. I'll get to taking a photo of what I use tomorrow or this weekend (my 14X20 mounting board and 12x18 Costco shots portfolio). Next week I will have my large framed DEMO being put together. I'm going to do either a 40 inch FUJI FLEX or a 36 inch FUJI FLEX. So that is in process. When I get it, I could show a pic of that too.



Drew Sinclair wrote:
Hi mark, first of all thank you for such and amazing article. I'm sure your very overwhelmed already but if you have the time please describe how the following is done.



To what extent of preparation is needed and what do you do to get a picture ready for printing after normal pp. Or to make it easy what do you do. I'm sure many fm'ers would like to try a print done on such quality paper myself included.

Thanks for your time
Drew Sinclair


Ok... This paper is simply incredable. Whitest whites, blackest blacks, SMOOTEST SURFACE, widest color gamut, to name a few (also the most FRAGILE!!!! I freekin ruined three!). BUT, the first 24 incher I got back looked terrible!!! There was massive LACK of contrast and LACK of saturation even though the Adobe 1998 RGB file was really pushed to the max in those areas for all the other printers I have used. Also there was an overall slight softness to the image, even though the file was quite sharp. So, I made some rather radical (and scary) over contrast moves in PS and also substantial over saturating in PS, also a luminance adjustment to compensate for my monitor. Then it was much better, but still not right. I repeated this 2-3 more times to get it just right. So, EXPECT the first image to not look 100%, and then make the necessary adjustments.
Also the first image was from the 20D - 8 mega pixel. I thought that interpolating to a 36 inch print at 400 ppi might be way to much interpolation (even after professional sharpening). The Durst Lambda prints at 200 or 400 only! So I went with 200 ppi on the first test print. The second test print I went ahead and tried interpolating a lot to a 400ppi (using my favorite method Bicubic SHARPER). It was really hard for me to believe, but the 24 incher, at 400 ppi looked much better with the more interpolation!

*Often professional printers will advise the opposite approach for big prints.

The last thing is that even with quite a bit of sharpening (even slightly over sharpened on my monitor) there was room for even more sharpening in the test prints. I could not believe how little noise appears on this paper?! Noise is reduced a lot.
So think about this for a moment: a native 8M file is 3504 pixels by 2336 pixels, a 8.76 X 5.84 at 400 ppi, and 23 megabytes, before interpolation. Then to get it to this size it had to become a 9600 X 8000 pixels, a 24 X 20 (image was 16 X 20 - but on a 24 X 20 canvas) at 400 ppi, and 219.7 megabytes! That in short is a ton of interpolation! But weirdly, it looks better this way than going 200 ppi 24 X 20. I'm about to do a 36 inch at 400 ppi, and then see if it is better than a 36 inch at 200 ppi, so I'll have to get back to you on that. There is a point where the 200 ppi will look better than the 400 ppi. I think that the 40 incher might end up needing to be 200 ppi (for an 8M camera by the way). But we will see.

Bottom line. If I was you, I'd try a 24 inch test print (does not cost so much like the 40 + inchers) and maybe take what I said here into consideration, and just boost the contrast a small bit, the saturation, and the sharpening, interpolated to 400 ppi, Adobe RGB (or whatever space they recommend) and give it a rip! Then when you get it back, critically analyze it, and make the necessary improvements, knowing this may take a few tries. Keep meticulous track of what you do to it, so that you can apply the same kind of processing to the next image you print this way... I'm sure some labs, like KEN's can do all this for you, but for a charge. I like to control all the processing, so for myself it is out of the question.
Hope it helps!

Good luck everyone!



MadMan2k wrote:
He linked to the lab that his friend owns (createdforlife.com), which prints on that paper. I requested a price list from their site, and this is what they sent. Even if it costs twice that after shipping, the prices aren't bad at all.


I'd like to pipe in that their lab is CUTTING EDGE! They are very very serious about quality!



Sunman wrote:
If you're doing prints smaller than 12x18 (or is it 8x12), use Costco (if you have one close by), you can download the costco fuji printer profiles from www.drycreekphoto.com




This is what I have done for a while. I'm in the process of getting out of using costco, and upgrading to exclusively FUJI FLEX prints, but it is expensive, so Costco is great until you can do that!






Apr 12, 2007 at 01:04 PM
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