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Archive 2006 · ABR800 Ringflash

  
 
john Paul
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p.2 #1 · ABR800 Ringflash


Wow!

Mr Buff really took him to task,...and apparently Mr. Rolando Gomez doesn't yet believe an apology is in order!

The other day, I walked into a CompUSA store to buy a new desktop printer.. I had a little knowledge of a model from HP. I had been using both an Epson, and a Canon..

I met a sales rep. from Epson. I explained to her what my needs were, and what my budget was, and that I was actually there to look at a competitor's model.. She didn't go off on a ...RANT,..... BLASTING...the HP printer,...she showed me the positive attributes of their product, and what they could do for me as far as savings, and proficiency,..and I ended up buying the Epson printer, along with several accessories. I never once heard a negative tone from the Epson sales rep. She was very polite, and very professional. Their product was strong enough to stand on it's own. However after reading Mr. Rolando Gomez's comments regarding the Alien Bee Ringflash, directed more toward indoor shooting,.........I am at a loss for words! I am shocked to read (what I believe to be) such ignorance coming from this published author, and accomplished "professional" photographer! I believed he intentionally made very disparaging remarks about a product that...go figure,...isn't sponsoring his glamour & nudie workshops! ...nor his website....what's it called,...."Garage Glamour"..?!?! I used to be a member there,...and it appears that since I've "left", participation on GG has been down quite a bit.. Who knows, perhaps he could be saying controversal things to get people to join and participate in his website.........what ever..

I believe those statements speak volumes about the character of Mr. Gomez. I believe he doesn't care much for the love of photography, but rather for the deep pocktes of his sponsors.


I have been a fairly long time owner of Paul Bull Inc. products.. I have a set of Ultra lights that I bought over ten years ago,...that I've used thousands of times... & more recently, I bought a set of 4 Alien Bee 1600's which I have been using on location for the last 2 years now, and I have been very happy with them.

Some of the things not covered by Mr. Rolando Gomez is that Paul Buff makes their products in the USA... not in Germany.. I have no issues with Germans. however, I love my country, and lean more to products made in the USA over imports, if there happens to be an alternative available..

Paul Buff Inc.'s customer service is second to none!

I love calling them up on the phone, to place my orders.. I love the way they talk in TN.. :-) I have had to use their repair department twice.. Once for fixing an Ultra 1600 unit after I managed to overheat the thing..(first and only time I managed to do that).. They repaired it for $50.00 plus shipping! I smelled smoke coming off that light! It was very hot to the touch! It showed no sign of life after it cooled down,...and they fixed it like new for 50 bucks!

How much would Mr. Rolando Gomez's sponsored German brand Pro lights would have cost to repair a similar problem..? I'd guess it would be a tad more than 50 bucks!

I had a AB 1600 unit slam on the ground after being 8ft up on a light stand, after a gust of wind filled the front of a soft box, (on top of a building in down town Milwaukee)...and pushed the rig over, and smacked that light on the concrete, causing the rear corner of the light housing to get a little scratchy looking..and ...that's about it.. Yep,...it kept on working... and it still works today without a hiccup!

The nice thing about buying AB, and WL lights, is that not only do they cost less than other brands that offer similar performance, they don't cost a lot to repair, replace, or insure, yet they deliver a huge BANG for the buck!

Thank you Paull Buff for your wonderful products, service and and professionalism when confronted by jerks with keyboards!

John Paul Greco



Nov 30, 2006 at 01:27 PM
mbwkrause
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p.2 #2 · ABR800 Ringflash


How about opening an Alien Bees fan club and start a new forum?


Nov 30, 2006 at 02:21 PM
Brent Ward
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p.2 #3 · ABR800 Ringflash


john Paul wrote:
I believe he doesn't care much for the love of photography, but rather for the deep pocktes of his sponsors.

John Paul Greco


If you think that Mr. Buff isn't here to fill his pockets as well, then your sorely mistaken. He makes great products for the price point he gives. Are they the best out there? Nope. Do they have the best customer service? Sounds like it.

But a reality check is in order here. Paul & Rolando are here to make money.




Nov 30, 2006 at 02:33 PM
john Paul
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p.2 #4 · ABR800 Ringflash


Brent Ward wrote:
If you think that Mr. Buff isn't here to fill his pockets as well, then your sorely mistaken. He makes great products for the price point he gives. Are they the best out there? Nope. Do they have the best customer service? Sounds like it.

But a reality check is in order here. Paul & Rolando are here to make money.




I disagree,..

I am in the middle of reading the boards on his site,..now called G1.. and I what I get out of his replies, is that basically,...if you can't afford the best equipment offered, you shouldn't be taking pictures..

I also wonder how he defines what a "pro" photographer is.. One who shoots for high end commercial studios, who have millions of dollars in lighting, who don't need Mr. Buff's products..? Or the professional, like I humbly call myself, who makes his living with the tools available to him, that fit his budget. Yep, somehow, with Paull Buff Inc. products for most of my lighting, I some how manage to make a living as a professional photographer.. I must also say that to spend $400 bucks on a studio oriented light that may be a "fadd", is not a lot of money to me.. especially because it can be used as just another 320 true WS light, on a light stand,...inside a soft box,...or in an umbrella... a bounce fill..etc.. & heck,...when the "fadd" comes back,...you already have it.. :-)

IMO, JT Smith showed two examples of pictures taken with this lighting tool, that to me, look a whole lot better than all the photos combined, that Mr. Gomez has posted in his website's forum replys that I believe were taken with his expensive German made Hensel lights..

BTW, Mr Gomez states that he switched from Dyna-Lite to Hensel.. Hmm....I wonder when that was..? Wasn't Dyna-Lite one of his sponsors for a while too..? I wonder if the switch from Dyna-Lite to Hensel had anything to do with the loss of Dyna-Lite as a sponsor..?

Hmm.....I don't know if there is a story there or not, but I thought I'd raise the question..

:-)

JP




Nov 30, 2006 at 03:00 PM
Brent Ward
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p.2 #5 · ABR800 Ringflash


People switch sponsors and brands all the time. It's the nature of the beast.

Gomez was giving his opinion. Some of his points were valid.

I shoot Canon, do you think If nikon was going to give me a bunch of gear and sponsor me that I wouldn't switch?

...And are you saying that Mr. Buff isn't here to promote his products resulting in financial gain?



Nov 30, 2006 at 03:23 PM
john Paul
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p.2 #6 · ABR800 Ringflash


Brent Ward wrote:
People switch sponsors and brands all the time. It's the nature of the beast.

Gomez was giving his opinion. Some of his points were valid.

I shoot Canon, do you think If nikon was going to give me a bunch of gear and sponsor me that I wouldn't switch?

...And are you saying that Mr. Buff isn't here to promote his products resulting in financial gain?



So what..?

Who started this topic..?

It wasn't Mr. Buff. It was Mr. Peters.

Mr. Peters showed what Mr. Gomez had to say about Mr. Buff's products, even knocking them, and Mr. Buff wanted to protect the reputation of his company and product.

So,...........maybe Mr. Buff doesn't want someone to tarnish his company's image, which may (would) lead to a loss in sales......what is so bad about that to you Brent..?

If one of your competitors was to talk smack about your photography product,...and suggest that someone who may be in the market to hire you, to hire them instead,...and lets say that they said some things that weren't exactly correct,....wouldn't you come out and set the record strait..? Heck,...it's your business,...it's what earns you money,....why wouldn't you..? What would be your issue with that..?

I don't believe you would take issue with that.. Who would..? If I saw you replying here, standing up for your business and product, I wouldn't get all excited about it..

:-)

JP



Nov 30, 2006 at 03:52 PM
Brent Ward
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p.2 #7 · ABR800 Ringflash


I was replying to your satement saying that you disagreed both were here to make money.

It was a product review plain & simple. Made some good points, had some bad points. What review doesn't?

I just don't understand all the defensiveness or the major love fest going on here...



Nov 30, 2006 at 04:02 PM
shatterkiss
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p.2 #8 · ABR800 Ringflash


mbwkrause wrote:
How about opening an Alien Bees fan club and start a new forum?


I don't think there's a need for that, since this forum has begun to serve that purpose.



Nov 30, 2006 at 06:03 PM
markperez
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p.2 #9 · ABR800 Ringflash


Rolando is so full of himself. He is good at what he does and much better then me but is way to full of himself. AB work great for me and if Rolando hates them then that makes me like them more


Nov 30, 2006 at 06:08 PM
MikeDitz
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p.2 #10 · ABR800 Ringflash


jtsmith wrote:
Paul,

We had it on a stand off camera.

J T



.....If you remove a ringflash from around the lens it's not a ringflash anymore and doesn't give the ringflash look, it's just another head.



Nov 30, 2006 at 06:53 PM
jtsmith
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p.2 #11 · ABR800 Ringflash


MikeDitz wrote:
.....If you remove a ringflash from around the lens it's not a ringflash anymore and doesn't give the ringflash look, it's just another head.


If a tree falls in the woods and you are not there to hear it, did it make a sound?

It's still a ringflash that gives a certain style of light quality output by itself that can compare to just another head but still not the exact same light quality as just another head. It's still unique in itself.

I love the quality of light when I place it off camera vs just another head.

I wasn't claiming it to be using it as "ring"flash but it's still called a ringflash. With no background to cast the distinct ringlight shadows, could one really tell anyway if one was used mounted over the lens?

J T



Nov 30, 2006 at 10:19 PM
MikeDitz
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p.2 #12 · ABR800 Ringflash


OK, the name of the product will remain the Alien Bee Ringflash whether you put on the lens, on a stand in a softbox or in the refrigerator. But if it's not being used as a ringflash, it is just another head. Due to the size and shape of the tube it will have different pattern than a regular head.Maybe what you are seeing is that the tube becomes a slightly larger light source than a regular tube in a regular reflector. I don't know. But to refer to it as a ringflash is a little misleading-confusnig as it is not a light source coming from the same axis as the lens, which is is what a ringflash does. Even the guy who made the ringflash was confused as the lighting on the models was obviously not from a camera lens mounted light source. It's the same as if you put a spotlight behind a full silk and put a couple more sheets of diffusion on it and said that you were using a spotlight...yes it's still a spotlight but not performing like a spotlight.
Yes, most of the time you can tell if a ringflash (mounted on the camera lens) was used even without the obvious ringflash shadow on the background look. Look at the shadows. Or lack of shadows.,,So you are using the ringflash not on the camera, but on a stand, in both photos...so I guess it is a new ringflash look!



Nov 30, 2006 at 10:58 PM
jtsmith
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p.2 #13 · ABR800 Ringflash


MikeDitz wrote:
...so I guess it is a new ringflash look!


ya, you could say that.



J T



Nov 30, 2006 at 11:26 PM
sspellman
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p.2 #14 · ABR800 Ringflash



While Rolando is an established and successful photographer, I do not feel as if he even inteded his comments on the ABR800 to be a subjective review or even attempt to evaluate its use for anybody but himself. His comment that the ABR800 is less powerful than the the products he uses is accurate. Its also lightweight, a solid performer, with a modeling light, and incredible customer service at a price at least half of competing products. I have the ABR800 and used in several pro shoots and am very happy with it as another tool in my arsenal. Would I have paid $1000+ for a competing product-nah.

-Scott



Nov 30, 2006 at 11:43 PM
drflash
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p.2 #15 · ABR800 Ringflash


I find it interesting that Rolando would go out of his way to document his perceived shortcomings of the AB ringflash. Especially when his target audience is "Garage Glamour" shooters. I'm sure having a sponsor like Hensel who probably gave him $10k worth of equipment had nothing to do with it.

When I needed a ringflash, I bought a used Profoto head and had it modified to work on my 4000 w/s Norman pack. Total cost less than $500 including the modification, pack and head. It doesn't have acuracy to .1 f-stop but when shooting with a ringflash, unless you are using a zoom or you and the model are staying in one place, your exposure is constantly changing anyway.

It's far more about knowing how to use what you have than spending alot of money.

This was shot with the Profoto Head/Norman pack mentioned.

Model Holley D., Makeup Sylvia Smith

http://www.rich.org/holly_ring.jpg



Dec 01, 2006 at 09:47 AM
Ed Peters
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p.2 #16 · ABR800 Ringflash


Rolando does indeed have an ego (as does Paul). That's one of the reasons I started this thread; to get a couple of very opinionated views on a product. I would not question Rolando's motives, I believe him to be honest and an excellent photographer. Paul is also excellent (in my opinion) in his field, which I classify as lighting equipment for the middle photographer (probably 60% of SLR shooters) and not for the 25% casual shooters or the 10% who use the stuff everyday to shoot mag layouts. Special thanks to JT for his input and examples..


Dec 01, 2006 at 11:38 AM
john Paul
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p.2 #17 · ABR800 Ringflash


drflash wrote:

I find it interesting that Rolando would go out of his way to document his perceived shortcomings of the AB ringflash. Especially when his target audience is "Garage Glamour" shooters. I'm sure having a sponsor like Hensel who probably gave him $10k worth of equipment had nothing to do with it.

When I needed a ringflash, I bought a used Profoto head and had it modified to work on my 4000 w/s Norman pack. Total cost less than $500 including the modification, pack and head. It doesn't have acuracy to .1 f-stop but when shooting with a ringflash, unless you are
...Show more

That's a great point! I'm wondering why I didn't think of that...?

I shoot most of my work hand held, because I don't like to be restricted by a tripod, or a monopod... Action happens too quickly to be stuck in one spot much of the time by more legs that I already have..

When I shot this: (warning, contains artistic nudity)
http://www.pbase.com/john_paul/nikkiriomikep

I was using my Norman 400b, DC powered pack, with a Calumet ringflash head..

(I ended up selling it because it was too quirky for my needs)..

I had the pack set to 200 WS so I could get faster recycle times, and more flashs out of it.. & had my iso set to 200..(less contrast, I could work from further away) and I was using a 20D, with my (old)28-70 L lens.. Oh, and I had to have a strong modeling light on next to me, so I could reduce the red-eye effect which is common with RF's.. I only wished my dinky little ringflash was equipped like Paul Buff's innovative design..

I was moving up and down a little here,...a little there....... moving in,...moving out... and with every single movement I made, changed the effects of the light..and probably by a good 1/10th of a stop, or more....So,....unless the Great Rolando Gomez has an assistant accurately clicking the power output, on his nifty "high-brow" Made in GermAnY ;-) lights,...then,...in order to remain within a 1/10th os a stop,...he would have to stop what he is doing, and slow down the shoot,... & have the model wait for him to dink around with his equipment....Ooooh,...very professional I might add... I'd like to know how he shoots with RF, because he never got into that.. Does he have it mounted to a tripod, and has the model pose within very restricted boundries..because he can't move with the model..?

Honestly,...most of his pictures don't look to me like he is within a 1/10th of a stop... I've seen many of his pictures over the years,...and most of them appear to be at least 1/2 stop UNDER exposed,....so.....or slightly over exposed.. I've seen what appears to be areas of prominence on the subject, painted in in an apparent attempt to cover up nuked out skin.. I have seen what appears to be heavy amounts of color noise in shaded areas...which could mean that a picture was under exposed, and brought back up using curves, or levels.. (poorly)..

So, if that is true,.....what is he making such a big deal regarding his magnific 10ths click stop power output settings IF he doesn't take know how to meter it..?

Regarding infinite adjustments,...vs click stops,... Has anyone ever complained that their zoom lenses don't have click stops from ..lets say,...70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200..? Would you like to be certain that you are exactly in a specific focal length setting..? I sure wouldn't buy a P.O.S. lens like that! I don't like being limited by what the tool offers me.. In some ways it can be helpful,...and that is what you pay for IF you really absolutely NEED to be that accurate,... but then again,....ART is subjective to Opinion... what appears to be exposed properly to one person, may be incorrectly exposed to the another.. and maybe that exposure is 1/3rd, to 1/2 a stop.. Heck, I've seen art directors get all excited about a light test shot that was 1 whole stop over exposed! I even had a model select an image where the flashes didn't fire! The only thing that provided light was the modeling lamps in my studio,... which was very faint! (no joke)

There is one more thing I wanted to touch on,...and that is Mr. Gomez's knock on the Alien Bee ringflash.. He calls it a "Novelty". I think that anyone who listens to the suggestions of his consumers, and designs a product around those things, and can make it work very well, for as low as he charges for it, could be considered a genius!

Instead, you have Mr. Gomez knocking a ring type flash head that has a built in,...on axis modeling light that helps in focusing, reduces redeye and seeing exactly what your light will be looking like, cooling fans allowing extended shooting times, accessories that limit the amount of ring halo among other things, light weight, sturdy built, fast recycle times, a fair amount of power for indoor use, that doesn't have to be mounted to a camera, but also to a light stand to work,....that is powered by both AC & DC,.. and costs $400 bucks, and basically calls it a "toy".. & suggests that it is an unprofessional tool, a waste of money, when his expensive GermAnY ;-) made light doesn't offer half that!!

It sounds to me like Rolando is a total buffoon! BTW, doesn't his sponsors give him those lights for free..? Heck,...if he didn't have the backing of his sponsors, I wonder what he would be shooting with..? .....some "junk" probably.. ;-)

Well,...some people define what they are by what they have, over what they can do with what they've got..regardless if it costs a little or a lot.

JP



Dec 01, 2006 at 12:45 PM
john Paul
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p.2 #18 · ABR800 Ringflash


Ed Peters wrote:
Rolando does indeed have an ego (as does Paul). That's one of the reasons I started this thread; to get a couple of very opinionated views on a product. I would not question Rolando's motives, I believe him to be honest and an excellent photographer. Paul is also excellent (in my opinion) in his field, which I classify as lighting equipment for the middle photographer (probably 60% of SLR shooters) and not for the 25% casual shooters or the 10% who use the stuff everyday to shoot mag layouts. Special thanks to JT for his input and examples..



Oh,...really,... maybe you ought to check out what magazine layout photographers are doing these days, with what they are shooting...

I shoot a business magazine,....cover, feature, and ads with my trusty products from Paul Buff inc. I just shot a calendar.. I just shot with a Ford Agency NYC model with my Alien Bees.. Tonight, I am shooting a fashion show,....(If I can dig my car out of the snow)..

I know several shooters who shoot for lots of other magazines and calendars, and ads....who use his products as well.. including fashion, glamour, automotive, lifestyle and editorial magazines.. Not everyone is using Broncolor.. Kohls Deparement store is,...Oh wait,...they switched to Profoto.. Since they aren't sponsoring Mr. Gomez, I wonder what he has to say about those systems.. ;p)

JP




Dec 01, 2006 at 12:57 PM
mmurph
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p.2 #19 · ABR800 Ringflash


]:
Rolando does indeed have an ego (as does Paul). That's one of the reasons I started this thread; to get a couple of very opinionated views on a product.


I understand that. But there is a reason I don't go read the posts on a board like Rolando's (though I never knew he existed, until now )

It is the same thing with DPReview. I stopped going there 5 years ago because it had a lot of the same kind of amaturish BS as Rolando (not saying he is wrong or right - just the approach) and some of the replies here.

That is the same reason I stopped going to Luminous-Landscape, and why I miss Rob Galbraith (at least the lighting and medium format forums.)

Please, handle these discussions where they begin. If Rolando doesn't let you post at his site, then stop going.

But cross-posting this type of discussion really spreads a kind of non-professional BS discussion to Fred Miranda that this place doesn't usually have.

Brand fanaticism is ridiculous to a professional, whether it is Canon v. Nikon, PC v. Mac, or Prada vs. The Gap.

I have a lot of tools available. I choose based on experience, and what is right at the time.

I remember a real sense of relief one day switching from my Mamiya 7II and careful composition, focusing, exposure, etc., to my Holga and just "grab shooting." But neither define me or my photography.

Best,
Michael



Dec 01, 2006 at 01:24 PM
shatterkiss
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p.2 #20 · ABR800 Ringflash


mmurph wrote:
Brand fanaticism is ridiculous to a professional, whether it is Canon v. Nikon, PC v. Mac, or Prada vs. The Gap.

I have a lot of tools available. I choose based on experience, and what is right at the time.


I think that's the smartest thing I've heard all day and a sentiment that a great many of us would echo.



Dec 01, 2006 at 04:06 PM
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