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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L

  
 
mfurman
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p.51 #1 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


RoyPertchi: Don't look at the baby's eye lashh, look at the pillow behind her. Dont look at the kid in the hat, look at the bent wood chair in the background

Bokeh is very important to me as well but I think that you may be exaggerating a bit by putting more emphasis on it than the subject of a photograph. If you extended this approach any further you would be taking all the photos defocused. I still care much more about eye lashes than bokeh



Dec 30, 2006 at 08:11 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.51 #2 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


mfurman wrote:
...... If you extended this approach any further you would be taking all the photos defocused. .....


AhHA! Capital idea, Mortisha!

Seriously, you are right, of course. The lens must be able to render the subject in sharp focus. But at normal size prints, most good quality lenses are seviceably sharp, and the 50L looks to be just fine in this regard. What jumped out at me, looking at the posts, is the lovely bokeh, which is something that is readily apparent in normal viewing sizes, i.e. no pixel peeping required to see the effect. In this sense, looking at whats visible to a viewer looking at a print, sharpness is almost always there, bokeh quality varies more noticably from lens to lens.



Dec 30, 2006 at 08:24 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.51 #3 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Here is a matrix of Canon's MTF's for frequently discussed primes. I think it's interesting to see how the comments about these lenses comply with the looks of these charts.

Edited by RoyPertchi on Dec 31, 2006 at 01:17 AM GMT



Dec 30, 2006 at 11:51 PM
CMOS
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p.51 #4 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Roy,
Thanks, very helpful. Obviously, you know how to read these charts. Do you know of a link or something you can share re how to read them?
Thanks.



Dec 31, 2006 at 12:34 AM
alfarmer
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p.51 #5 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I must have an exceptional copy of the 35L, as that chart doesn't indicate the quality of the results I've achieved with it.

I can never remember how to iterpret these charts, but I'm looking at the black lines (wide open?) for the 85/f1.8 and 85L and wondering what it means that the former drops off very suddenly and rapidly at about "17". What does that mean, exactly? And what does it mean vs. the 85L's gentler slope?

If higher in the Y direction is better, doesn't it mean the 85/f1.8 and 50/f1.4 are both better than their "L" counterparts wide open? In the case of the 85mm it doesn't mean much given the aperture difference, but it would be more significant in the case of the 50mm lenses.

So does the 35mm/f2 compare well vs. the 35L? And boy that flat line on the 135L sure is impressive, eh?

ALF



Dec 31, 2006 at 12:34 AM
Roy Pertchik
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p.51 #6 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


I've updated my matrix posted above to include more non-L's for comparison. To read and MTF chart, In a nut shell, goes like this:

The left side is the center of the frame, the right side is the corner of the frame. Up is good, down is less good. The blue lines represent performance at f8. The thick blue line is how well the lens can "see" a target of 10 line pairs per mm, and is a measurement of contrast. The thin blue line represents the same measurement using a 30 lpm target and is a measurement of resolving power. What we perceive as "sharpness" is a combination of these two factors. The dashed versions of the lines are measurements repeated with the target lines ortiented radially, (solid means the lines are perpendicular to that, or "tangential".) In all of these charts, the f8 performance is very similar: the thick solid blue line is plastered to the top, the thin blue line is a little lower, but basically straight across, which means great contrast and great resolution. The right ends dip down a bit, representing corner performance. The radial line tests (dashed blue) are similar but curve down sooner, and the wider the focal length lens, the more severly these begin to dip towards the edge of the frame. But basically, the blue lines do not really set an L lens apart from a non-L counterpart... at f8, they are all great.

The black lines represent wide open performance. Again, thick is 10 lpm, contrast, and thin is 30 lpm, resolution. Dashed is radial lines, solid is tangential. In every case, the wide open performance is noticably worse than the f8 performance. Also, it' s hard to compare the 85 1.2 to the 85 1.8, for example because, "wide open" is different for these lenses. Basically, the 1.8 wide open graph looks as good as the 1.2 wide open graph, but if you stopped the 1.2 down to 1.8, it's graph lines would move up, so you have to compenstae in your evaluation.

The truth is we know all of this form trying lenses and gabbing on line:
The longer the lens, the sharper, the wider the lens the less sharp.
Stopped down to f8 almost any lens is good, wide open degrades things a bit, more and more so for wider and wider lenses. Expensive L's open a little more, sometimes as much as a stop. The performance of a wide L wide open, is about as sharp as the non L wide open, but at equal aperturese nearly wide open, the L will win. That's all she wrote, re: sharpness. That's why I say the most outstanding thing I see in the sample images posted for the new 50 f1.2 is the creamy smoothe bokeh. Can't see that in the charts!

Here is a link to a Luminous Landscape description of MTF charts:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-mtf.shtml



Dec 31, 2006 at 01:07 AM
mfurman
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p.51 #7 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Thank you Roy. Very helpful comparison. At least we can see why everyone loves 135 f/2.0 and why 85 f/1.2L is better than 50 f/1.2 L (and also why 50 f/1.4 is not that bad)


Dec 31, 2006 at 07:47 AM
Tom_W
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p.51 #8 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Great explanation, Roy.

I will add that the MTF doesn't measure barrel/pincushion distortion, or flare either, but it is a great tool for comparing lenses in terms of sharpness & contrast, provided that the reader takes into account the aperture used in the testing.

Other aspects like build quality, weather-proofing, AF speed & accuracy, and such are more subjective measures, that some hold as more important features than others. All this plays a role in price and percieved value to the buyer.



Dec 31, 2006 at 10:49 AM
Harvey Moore
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p.51 #9 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


My landlady and her grandchildren after a birthday party yesterday with 50L




Dec 31, 2006 at 02:53 PM
alfarmer
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p.51 #10 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Heheh, that toy looks VERY familiar...

ALF



Dec 31, 2006 at 03:24 PM
alfarmer
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p.51 #11 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


For those wondering what can be "special" about the L series lenses, here's an example of what I consider pretty nifty:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5393709&size=lg

It's not a particularly exciting subject or anything, but the subtlety with which the lens (85L) captured the light falloff, contrast, and bokeh is really nice. Could the 85/f1.8 do the same thing? Maybe, since this was f/2.8, but the sum of the subtle things this lens does is greater than the individual parts, so to speak. At least to me.

ALF



Dec 31, 2006 at 05:00 PM
Koivulehto
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p.51 #12 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


This is drifting off-topic, but I post this anyway: I think the 85L is unbelivable in its ability to produce usable images in really poor light.

I documented today our 3 cats at home using my 85L, lit by one 18 W fluorescent tube in the ceiling. The shots are at f/1.6, f/1.4 and f/1.2 in this order (and 1/100 s, 1/100 s and 1/60 s respectively), all at ISO 1600:
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4541/webfridaf16100s8143sr4.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/1668/webbrutusf14100s8222nv7.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6168/webrosaf1260s8241ep0.jpg



Dec 31, 2006 at 06:12 PM
mbailey
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p.51 #13 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Koivulehto wrote:
This is drifting off-topic, but I post this anyway: I think the 85L is unbelivable in its ability to produce usable images in really poor light.

I documented today our 3 cats at home using my 85L, lit by one 18 W fluorescent tube in the ceiling. The shots are at f/1.6, f/1.4 and f/1.2 in this order (and 1/100 s, 1/100 s and 1/60 s respectively), all at ISO 1600:


That f1.2 shot is great!



Dec 31, 2006 at 07:01 PM
Koivulehto
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p.51 #14 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Thanks mbailey! She was there voluntarily (10 shots were enough), but I had to carry the others to the scene, and it shows in their unwillingness to co-operate, during 50+ shots for each.


Dec 31, 2006 at 07:26 PM
Harvey Moore
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p.51 #15 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Nice ones Lauri

I am going to the animal shelter Tues to pick up a cat/model

Based on my early shots with the 50L, it is getting close to what I have seen posted with the 85L. My 85 1.8 stuff needs a gaussian blur layer to get the 85L look, it's colors are on the harsh side.



Dec 31, 2006 at 08:13 PM
mbailey
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p.51 #16 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Its interesting that the center frame MTF performance of the 50L is superior to the 85L at both f1.2 and f8 but the rough consensus has been that the 85 is a far superior lens. Of course, MTF is not the whole story with any lens.


Jan 01, 2007 at 02:52 PM
dbostock
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p.51 #17 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


We're probably near the end of life on this thread, but I thought I'd throw this up for comment. 10 Seconds @ f/11. Tripod, manual focus, mirror lockup, etc...no doubt about the sharpness. And more importantly, there is a quality that just doesn't exist with many other lenses...I've shot this scene with the 14mm, 24 mm TSE, 16-35, and now the 50L. I can honestly say that the depth, clarity, star pattern quality, and overall realism from the 50L is astonishing. This web version just doesn't do justice to the shot...

http://davidbostockphotography.com/webposts/20070101_071418__P1R6077_CS3_B&W.jpg

Cheers,



Jan 01, 2007 at 10:00 PM
IraGraham
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p.51 #18 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


Wow, what an over analysed lens. I gather in short that this lens is a solid performer but only marginally better than the 50 1.4 in only a few areas. If it were a grade. The 50 1.4 gets a 93 and the 50 1.2 gets a 95. All for three times the price. Unless you are making over 100K in Photography income, it just is not worth it in my estimation. Guess what.....................your customer could care less! Get out and take some great photos in 2007. I don't care if you have the 50mm 1.8, 50mm 1.4 or the 50mm 1.2, just take great photos with what you have, it is all that matters!! I doubt if the above photo would look any worse if shot with a 50mm 1.4. After all, it was not shot at F 1.2 it was shot at F11, so why was the 1.2 lens needed over a 1.4 lens? Someone explain.

Edited by IraGraham on Jan 01, 2007 at 11:17 PM GMT

Edited by IraGraham on Jan 01, 2007 at 11:20 PM GMT



Jan 01, 2007 at 10:05 PM
ward1066
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p.51 #19 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


nice shot David! I agree this lens excells areas other than bokeh. It has been glued to my camera for a week and still amazes me.


Jan 01, 2007 at 10:45 PM
mbailey
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p.51 #20 · •Hands-On• EF 50/1.2L


dbostock wrote:
We're probably near the end of life on this thread, but I thought I'd throw this up for comment. 10 Seconds @ f/11. Tripod, manual focus, mirror lockup, etc...no doubt about the sharpness. And more importantly, there is a quality that just doesn't exist with many other lenses...I've shot this scene with the 14mm, 24 mm TSE, 16-35, and now the 50L. I can honestly say that the depth, clarity, star pattern quality, and overall realism from the 50L is astonishing. This web version just doesn't do justice to the shot...


The shot is awesome. Thanks for posting



Jan 01, 2007 at 11:30 PM
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