p.1 #1 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
I've been photographing surfing with a Canon 7D and Tamron SP 150–600mm f/5–6.3 Di VC USD G2 (A022) for about a year, with consistently solid detail in breaking waves, whitewater, and spray.
I recently upgraded to the Canon R7, using the same lens, and I'm experiencing a significant difference in image rendering. The surfer can appear reasonably sharp, but the surrounding water, particularly exploding whitewater and fine spray, often looks smeared, muddy, or almost like an oil painting.
I'm shooting at approximately 1/2000 second, f/6.3–f/8, typically between 300–500mm. I did experience some AF issues with the first R7 shoot and know some of the focus wasn't perfectly caught ... but I can't get over how some of the fine water detail seems to wildly distorted.
I'm trying to determine whether this is related to the R7's much higher pixel density exposing limitations in my older Tamron lens, autofocus accuracy, shutter behavior, or Lightroom's RAW processing.
(Working on uploading these) I've included a few original CR3 files from the R7 shoot that, to me, show a 'relatively' focused subject with heavy splash directly behind or adjacent, that seems blown out and lost ... oil-ish appearing. I've attached a few C2'S from my 7D for comparison too.
I'd particularly appreciate feedback from R7 owners shooting sports, wildlife, birds in flight, or other fast-moving subjects with fine textures.
I could be over analyzing, could be a difference in processing in LRC ... but there is something about the 7D whitewater that comes across more fine and glassy vs the R7 creating something oily.
My biggest question: Should I realistically expect the R7 to deliver significantly better fine detail than the 7D using the same lens, or is the lens potentially the limiting factor?
p.1 #2 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
Are you using ES nor mechanical/EFCS? The way the sensor is read is interleaved, not sure in how may rows on the R7 but I think on the R5 it's four, and that leads to what in the end looks like a blur on very fast moving objects. I am not referring to the skew of a ball - it's actual fuzziness because line 1 and 5 are read at the same time, and line 2 and 6, and so on. Using MS or EFCS solves this. The R7 has a ridiculous slow readout speed, which makes the problem worse even compared to the original R5.
p.1 #3 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
Stan, thank you for the reply. I just went back and checked the original CR3 file using ExifTool, and it confirms Shutter Mode: Mechanical.
So it looks like we can eliminate electronic-shutter readout as the cause, at least for this image.
I'm still investigating why the surfer can appear relatively sharp while surrounding whitewater and spray lose so much fine texture. I'm leaning toward a combination of lens performance on the R7's higher-resolution sensor and potentially RAW processing/noise reduction.
p.1 #4 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
I shoot with the R7 using the EF 100-400 4.5-5.6L IS USM II—don't own the Tamron or shoot surfing—and images of both moving critters and landscapes are crisp and sharp, even with the Extender 1.4X III. I often find myself at high ISO since I need to keep shutter speeds at 1/1500 to 1/2000 due to subject movement. The dark defocused backgrounds can be really grainy, albeit they clean up well with the noise panel in LR.
I've seen a lot of posts about the Tamron and R7 combo for birds on the FB R7 groups. Seems to be working well for some and not so much for others. I didn't pay much attention since I don't own that lens, but lots of workarounds in the AF setting were discussed that helped performance for some.
p.1 #5 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
Thanks! That’s particularly interesting because I experienced some AF hunting and inconsistent tracking during my first R7 shoot with the Tamron. Do you happen to remember which Facebook R7 groups had those discussions? I’d love to join and investigate the AF workarounds people found effective.
p.1 #7 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
This sounds stupid but...are you viewing the output of the 7D vs the R7 at 100%? My R5 seems really blurry when viewed at 1:1 but when you scale it to match the same resolution as my older bodies, it seems much better.
I wish I had better terminology to explain this, but when I bought my first DSLR, a 300D with 6MP, every one of those six million pixels seemed critically sharp and vibrant. With 45MP, I feel the same area in the frame is covered by hundreds of seemingly blurry pastelly noisy pixels, yet downscaled to 6MP to compare would be much much sharper.
p.1 #8 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
tsangc wrote:
This sounds stupid but...are you viewing the output of the 7D vs the R7 at 100%? My R5 seems really blurry when viewed at 1:1 but when you scale it to match the same resolution as my older bodies, it seems much better.
I wish I had better terminology to explain this, but when I bought my first DSLR, a 300D with 6MP, every one of those six million pixels seemed critically sharp and vibrant. With 45MP, I feel the same area in the frame is covered by hundreds of seemingly blurry pastelly noisy pixels, yet downscaled to 6MP to compare would be much much sharper. ...Show more →
This sounds like a very good point to me. I had a somewhat similar situation moving from a 750D (18 M pixel) to a M6ii (32 M pixel). With the same lens, and at "100% crop" (meaning each pixel of the display matching one pixel of the image), the M6ii image tended to look kind of worse. But that's not a fair comparison, because the image of the higher resolution sensor is zoomed in more strongly. One should instead compare them at the same reproduction scale.
p.1 #9 · Canon R7 vs 7D — Significant Loss of Fine Detail in Surf Photography with Tamron 150–600mm. Lens, AF, or RAW Processing?
Can you post a RAW file? Mostly likely there is a combination of unrealistic expectations plus the camera/lens and also possibly atmospheric conditions. The R7 has an old-fashioned sensor with excessive AA filter so it needs some sharpening and AF was never its strong suit.
