p.3 #1 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
KLaban wrote:
Many thanks for your kind comments, they are much appreciated.
I'll start with a bit of history. I've owned and used many cameras over the years, including Nikon film, Hasselblad film and digital and more recently Leica M cameras, but sadly health and eyesight issues mean that I've had to look elsewhere to replace the Leica M cameras. I also use couple of Nikon Z7 bodies which I still use to this day.
I'll add a little here about how and why I shoot. Always RAW, often due to the nature of my subjects I have a maximum of a handful of seconds to see and capture images, but that said, my approach is always considered and very rarely using anything other than single shot capture. My enjoyment comes from capturing my subjects in difficult circumstances and processing each file on a completely individual basis - no pre-baked profiles for this tog. It always amuses me that I often spend mere seconds capturing the files and then can spend hours processing them. Anyone looking for OOC files should look elsewhere!
I've always admired the Q cameras but the 28mm is simply not my bag, preferring as I do 'standard' focal length lenses. For years I was praying that Leica would introduce a longer focal length version of the Q and I consequently pressed the button on the first day of release and bought the Q3 43. Happy days. This was to be my main travel option, lightweight, reasonably compact and above all else just pure simplicity. It hasn't disappointed. Discretion is key when I'm shooting in the street.
The lens is everything I hoped for, whether used wide open or stopped down, as good as anything I used on the M cameras. The 60MP sensor gives me the option to crop when necessary. I see the fixed lens as a positive, it's that SIMPLICITY thing again, just zoom with the feet. The profiles are useful but in reality I keep everything as simple as possible, hence all my concentration is focused on the subjects; my wife would say simple things for simple minds. Again, the menu UI is pure simplicity, or was until Leica introduced the latest firmware update, thankfully I resisted updating to FW 4. The Q3 43 is certainly not a speed machine, but neither am I. Horses for courses. I’ve nothing to add to comparisons with other cameras and will leave that to others.
I’ll end by saying I’d also buy a Leica Q3 90 in a heartbeat should it ever materialise. ...Show more →
Thank you for the interesting write-up of the background for your use of the Q3 43 and how you shoot. I would say that your shooting style is similar to mine, except that perhaps in addition to the very considered picture I also often see fleeting moments that I would like to capture. I also only shoot single shot and I spend a lot of time post-processing, making multiple versions until I either am satisfied or give up.
Your photographs are beautiful, and I think you must have had displays of your work at some time in your career. I also remember a photograph you posted previously of a woman next to a wall with a bench and I think a cat in the foreground. Sundrenched and shadowed. Also Morocco?
I do have two more questions, if you don't mind:
I am always interested in how people manage to get fairly close up candids of strangers. This might be especially difficult when one is traveling and in a culture not one's own. How did you get this images in terms of your interactions with or lack of interaction withe the subjects? Were most of them taken without the subjects knowing, did you establish rapport first, or did you jusst shoot quickly and move on?
My second question is whether you were concerned carrying a distinctive and highly visible camera that is probably worth a year's salary for many of the people around you. Did you take any special precautions? Were there any occasions that made you especially uncomfortable?
p.3 #2 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
Tarekith wrote:
Prior to firmware 4.0 for the Q3, the only real issue I was having was that the camera would show me the AF was locked on to what I thought, but then when I would get home and review the images the focus was actually a little in front or behind where I expected. Firmware 4.0 fixed most of this, and made the AF lock on time a bit speedier too.
Assuming I'm using the 40mm G lens on the A7CR, I don't think there's any real difference in the kinds of photos I would be able to get with either camera. For all intents in terms of the end result they are identical, especially with the same sensor and being able to crop the same amount in post. These days the A7CR gets reserved for when I want to do some telephoto or macro work, or anything related to video or timelapse.
The benefit of the Q3 is being more hands on and deliberate with how I shoot, versus just relying on a more general purpose setting using burst shooting with auto ISO minimum SS and the Sony excellent AF performance. With the Q3 I'm more likely to manually be changing my settings for each shoot, really getting hands on with controls without thinking about it or even looking at them now that I'm used to them. I guess the only other real hardware benefit I can think of is the 43 lens just being so damn nice, the blown out backgrounds at shallower depths of field are sooo nice in a way the Sony 40G just can't do (though I still like it for that too). I will say there was a good learning curve adapting to the way the Leica works coming from a Sony background, even though it's technically a simpler camera to operate.
A couple more things that came to mind as I was thinking about this today. I was really looking forward to having a better EVF on the Q3, but in use I rarely find it makes any difference in how I use the camera or what I can see in the EVF. Yes the Q3 EVF is nicer, but it really doesn't make as much difference for me as I thought it might. Then again I don;t hate the A7CR EVF as much as some people seem to.
Lastly, while the Q3 43 is probably the one camera I would keep as my desert island camera, it's also something I've been close to selling SOOO many times too. There's just so much overlap with the A7CR and what it can do that it really does feel like a bit excessive when you factor in the cost. I love the handling and deliberate nature of the Q3 43, but I have to ask myself frequently is it really worth thousands and thousands more than the A7CR? For now I still say yes, but mainly because it was a once in a lifetime splurge as a 50th birthday gift to myself and I was able to get it before the latest tariffs raised the price even more. If it was stolen and I had to get it again, I would have to have a long think about it this time around. Well, an even longer think about it ...Show more →
Thank you very much for the background and especially the comparisons to the A7C R, which I use primarily as a travel camera. It is very helpful in understanding how I might feel owning the 43 and what is the same and different with the A7C R, which I tend to use with the Sigma i series lenses.
Do you ever feel uncomfortable about carrying a distinctive high value camera such as the 43 while you are traveling or in new places?
p.3 #3 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
flash wrote:
There are no UI downsides to 4.xx. You lose the quick menu but you can now customise the home menu much more. It’s a wash. The camera operates much better. Faster AF. Faster startup. More responsive generally. I’d never go back to 3.xx.
p.3 #4 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chiron wrote:
...I do have two more questions, if you don't mind:
I am always interested in how people manage to get fairly close up candids of strangers. This might be especially difficult when one is traveling and in a culture not one's own. How did you get this images in terms of your interactions with or lack of interaction withe the subjects? Were most of them taken without the subjects knowing, did you establish rapport first, or did you jusst shoot quickly and move on?
My second question is whether you were concerned carrying a distinctive and highly visible camera that is probably worth a year's salary for many of the people around you. Did you take any special precautions? Were there any occasions that made you especially uncomfortable?
To your first question, both, often I'll interact with the subject and gain permission, particularly if I'm after a portrait, other times it's just a quick grab shot at some distance and move on. Sometimes I'll cross their palms with silver.
Second question, no special precautions other than covering branding which I do as a matter of course independent of manufacturer. I am naturally drawn to places that many would consider risky, red light and drug dealing areas are particularly interesting. There have been one or two occasions in India where I've felt somewhat threatened, but nothing I couldn't deal with by just calling them out. Thankfully I've never felt threatened in Morocco, but there have been many occasions where the subjects have made it very clear they didn't want to be photographed in which case I thank them and move on. Respect.
As an aside, there are plenty of towns and cities in the UK and elsewhere in Europe where I wouldn't venture with a camera or for that matter a phone.
p.3 #5 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
KLaban wrote:
To your first question, both, often I'll interact with the subject and gain permission, particularly if I'm after a portrait, other times it's just a quick grab shot at some distance and move on. Sometimes I'll cross their palms with silver.
Second question, no special precautions other than covering branding which I do as a matter of course independent of manufacturer. I am naturally drawn to places that many would consider risky, red light and drug dealing areas are particularly interesting. There have been one or two occasions in India where I've felt somewhat threatened, but nothing I couldn't deal with by just calling them out. Thankfully I've never felt threatened in Morocco, but there have been many occasions where the subjects have made it very clear they didn't want to be photographed in which case I thank them and move on. Respect.
As an aside, there are plenty of towns and cities in the UK and elsewhere in Europe where I wouldn't venture with a camera or for that matter a phone.
You seem quite expert at this and very comfortable maneuvering, which is a great asset for street photography. I tend to be more inibited on the street, but that is something I should probably work against by practice. It would never have occurrred to me to "cross their palms wih silver"! Good work!
Your photos and your experience with walking away from people who don't want their pictures taken both made me think of harry Gruyaert's photos of Morocco. They are beautiful photographs, but much more about colors and forms and less about individual people than yours are. In some, even many, of Gruyaert's photos, it looks as though the people are actively turning away form being photographed or putting their hands in front of their faces--but he took the photos anyway. Risky business and not really appropropriate where people are in their normal circumstances and don't wish to be photographed. But Gruyaert's photos are also beautiful.
p.3 #6 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
dalegaspi wrote:
that said, the lens is phenomenal...it's sharp with very very little CA (it is APO, after all) but the focus fall off is something i have only seen in SL/M APO lenses ..it is f2 but the falloff is like it's a faster lens ..
For me this is a bit of an urban myth... I have the Summicron-SL APO 35mm, it is an f2, and it looks like an f2, I never though it looked like an f1.4.
p.3 #7 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chez wrote:
Zone focus is only accurate if your subject is within the zone. If the subject steps out or is already out of the zone, you either give up or you have to move. In either of those cases, AF tracking is much better. This is especially true with large apertures that have a thin dof.
The point of Zone Focusing is to set the zone to the distance of the subject. You don't have to move if doing it correctly.
Zone focus is not for super fast moving subjects, or super shallow depth of field. But where it is appropriate is is the fastest most reliable for of focusing I have found. Including my Sony A1.
p.3 #8 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
I think that the recent posts by @KLaban@, @Tarekith@, and @flash@ have moved me toward getting the Q3 43.
Sony is reported to announce the A7RVI in May with a new body style and the pattern or recent price reductions on specific Sony cameras supports this. So, I may wait to see what Sony does with the A7RVI and the new body style. I would wish for the new body to be smaller but given the number of large lenses that Sony has been churning out I don't think that will be the case. Maybe even larger, which would surely push me toward the 43.
p.3 #9 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chiron wrote:
You seem quite expert at this and very comfortable maneuvering, which is a great asset for street photography. I tend to be more inibited on the street, but that is something I should probably work against by practice. It would never have occurrred to me to "cross their palms wih silver"! Good work!
Your photos and your experience with walking away from people who don't want their pictures taken both made me think of harry Gruyaert's photos of Morocco. They are beautiful photographs, but much more about colors and forms and less about individual people than yours are. In some, even many, of Gruyaert's photos, it looks as though the people are actively turning away form being photographed or putting their hands in front of their faces--but he took the photos anyway. Risky business and not really appropropriate where people are in their normal circumstances and don't wish to be photographed. But Gruyaert's photos are also beautiful. ...Show more →
Many people in Islamic society believe that their soul is impinged by being photographed and will cover their faces if they so much as glimpse a camera.. Certainly Morocco is the most difficult place to photograph people I've ever experienced and India the easiest. Different cultures and religions.
p.3 #10 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
1bwana1 wrote:
The point of Zone Focusing is to set the zone to the distance of the subject. You don't have to move if doing it correctly.
Zone focus is not for super fast moving subjects, or super shallow depth of field. But where it is appropriate is is the fastest most reliable for of focusing I have found. Including my Sony A1.
The difficulty with zone focusing for me, which can be done with any camera, is that it commits you to a particular range and favors deep dof detail as a look. That can be fine, but they are certainly limitations and many pictures taken with M cameras show the effects of that style of focusing in their composition and dof. Fast AF systems give a much broader range of options and greater accuracy. But of course they come with different ergonomics. I am hoping that the Q3 43 strikes an optimum balance between fast, accurate AF and transparent ergonomics and direct simplicity.
p.3 #11 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
Another question about the Q3 43. Several reviews mention that the camera is slippery and both difficult and uncomfortable to hold without adding various grips. One reviewer compared it to holding a bar of soap.
What add-on grips have people liked with the body? For me, butter-fingers as I am, an add-on grip and perhaps a neck or hand strap would be mandatory, or the camera would have a short life.
p.3 #12 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
1bwana1 wrote:
The point of Zone Focusing is to set the zone to the distance of the subject. You don't have to move if doing it correctly.
Zone focus is not for super fast moving subjects, or super shallow depth of field. But where it is appropriate is is the fastest most reliable for of focusing I have found. Including my Sony A1.
You are severally limiting the type of images you can produce using zone focus. You either have to have a very large dof in order to track a moving subject, giving you that large dof image, or you have to have a stationary subject with a shallow dof. Forget trying to acquire images of moving subjects ( not just side to side, but also front to back ) with a dof that isolates the subject.
p.3 #13 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
I use a half leather case with a grip and a Leica thumb grip that I bought from ebay. You can check all the options for Q3 and get what you want... Leica thumb grip is also cheapest there...I use a wrist strap with a camera bag from B&H, Lowepro Adventura SH 100R II.
chiron wrote:
Another question about the Q3 43. Several reviews mention that the camera is slippery and both difficult and uncomfortable to hold without adding various grips. One reviewer compared it to holding a bar of soap.
What add-on grips have people liked with the body? For me, butter-fingers as I am, an add-on grip and perhaps a neck or hand strap would be mandatory, or the camera would have a short life.
p.3 #14 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chiron wrote:
Do you ever feel uncomfortable about carrying a distinctive high value camera such as the 43 while you are traveling or in new places?
I blacked out my Q3 43 because I like the way it looks versus having a bright red logo on the front. I think that plus the added grip and lens cap helps a lot when it comes to making it look less obviously like a Leica from a distance (to non-photo types anyway)
But even more than that, I had a very honest conversation with myself that it made no sense to spend that much money on a camera if it was going to keep me from using it anywhere I wanted. It's a tool and I treat it as such, and genuinely (and intentionally) don't think about the price at all since I purchased it.
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chiron wrote:
Another question about the Q3 43. Several reviews mention that the camera is slippery and both difficult and uncomfortable to hold without adding various grips. One reviewer compared it to holding a bar of soap.
What add-on grips have people liked with the body? For me, butter-fingers as I am, an add-on grip and perhaps a neck or hand strap would be mandatory, or the camera would have a short life.
What do you recommend?
Yes, it's stupid slippery to hold without a grip, a real failure of fashion over function for sure. My favorite thing about going back to the A7CR is how nice it is to hold compared to the Q3, even with the added grip and thumb rest. I went with the IDS grip as it was the most minimal one I could find that was comfortable, arca compatible, and still lets you access the battery and SD card slot without removing it. Been on the camera since day one and never taken it off.
I eventually went with the Leica thumb grip after trying some cheaper ones off Amazon first and being unhappy. The JJC one has buttons that were more difficult to press, and the moto queen one a lot of people recommend had a gap between the group and the camera body that bothered me. It was a small gap but still annoying to me. The Leica one is stupid expensive but doesn't have either of those issues.
Re: Zone Focusing. I experimented with this a lot when I got the Q3 43, and while I'm glad I know how to do it now I find it almost useless with the 43mm lens. It's great on wider lens like 24 or 28mm, but with the 43 your depth of field is super shallow unless you use apertures stopped down enough that you don't need to zone focus anyway really. IMVHO. Honestly the AF on the Q3 is good enough now it's a non-issue I think.
p.3 #15 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
Tarekith wrote:
I blacked out my Q3 43 because I like the way it looks versus having a bright red logo on the front. I think that plus the added grip and lens cap helps a lot when it comes to making it look less obviously like a Leica from a distance (to non-photo types anyway)
But even more than that, I had a very honest conversation with myself that it made no sense to spend that much money on a camera if it was going to keep me from using it anywhere I wanted. It's a tool and I treat it as such, and genuinely (and intentionally) don't think about the price at all since I purchased it.
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Yes, it's stupid slippery to hold without a grip, a real failure of fashion over function for sure. My favorite thing about going back to the A7CR is how nice it is to hold compared to the Q3, even with the added grip and thumb rest. I went with the IDS grip as it was the most minimal one I could find that was comfortable, arca compatible, and still lets you access the battery and SD card slot without removing it. Been on the camera since day one and never taken it off.
I eventually went with the Leica thumb grip after trying some cheaper ones off Amazon first and being unhappy. The JJC one has buttons that were more difficult to press, and the moto queen one a lot of people recommend had a gap between the group and the camera body that bothered me. It was a small gap but still annoying to me. The Leica one is stupid expensive but doesn't have either of those issues.
Re: Zone Focusing. I experimented with this a lot when I got the Q3 43, and while I'm glad I know how to do it now I find it almost useless with the 43mm lens. It's great on wider lens like 24 or 28mm, but with the 43 your depth of field is super shallow unless you use apertures stopped down enough that you don't need to zone focus anyway really. IMVHO. Honestly the AF on the Q3 is good enough now it's a non-issue I think.
Very helpful on all points. The camera looks great as you have it. The strap also looks good, light, and very flexible so it should fit in a bag well. Do you remember the brand? Is it comfortable? Finally what material did you cut the black circle out of, or is that something you bought?
p.3 #16 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
serhan_ wrote:
I use a half leather case with a grip and a Leica thumb grip that I bought from ebay. You can check all the options for Q3 and get what you want... Leica thumb grip is also cheapest there...I use a wrist strap with a camera bag from B&H, Lowepro Adventura SH 100R II.
Thank you. i will look on ebay for the Leica thumb grip if I do go through with the camera purchase. I would almost certainly add aa wrist strap since I like to carry my camera in my hand a lot of the time. Which one did you get and do you like it? I assume you don't also use a neck strap? With the Leica, to prevent marks on the body, it seems you have to use a neck strap that is difficult to put on and off. I use peak design connectors with my other cameras for easy on/off of the strap. I'm not sure if they are workable on Leica or if they would lead to scratches is they were able to be put on.
p.3 #17 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
Nifty Fifty wrote:
Perhaps this review will help you a little. In my opinion, it's one of the very few that doesn't simply repeat the usual platitudes about Leica, but where I get the feeling that someone actually used the camera, listened to their inner voice, and thought about it objectively, instead of just parroting advertising claims or other influencers.
This was a very informative review--thank you for pointing me to it.
He did the review linked above with a pre-4.0 firmware. I wrote to the author, Roman Fox, about this issue and he quickly responded to point me to an updated follow-up review done with 4.0. He said it made a major difference to start-up, autofocus and tracking, especially AF-C, and general responsiveness.
p.3 #18 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chiron wrote:
Very helpful on all points. The camera looks great as you have it. The strap also looks good, light, and very flexible so it should fit in a bag well. Do you remember the brand? Is it comfortable? Finally what material did you cut the black circle out of, or is that something you bought?
It was pretty stiff for the first month, but now it's nice and soft. Plus it lets me wrap the strap around my wrist with this method for when I hand carry (which is usual).
It was pretty stiff for the first month, but now it's nice and soft. Plus it lets me wrap the strap around my wrist with this method for when I hand carry (which is usual).
I am still contemplating what you wrote earlier about the minimal differences between the Q3 43 and the A7C R. I do worry a little bit that I am talking myself into something that won't be very different from what I already have! It's happened to me before.
p.3 #20 · Considering a Leica Q3 43 but used to Sony
chiron wrote:
Thank you. i will look on ebay for the Leica thumb grip if I do go through with the camera purchase. I would almost certainly add aa wrist strap since I like to carry my camera in my hand a lot of the time. Which one did you get and do you like it? I assume you don't also use a neck strap? With the Leica, to prevent marks on the body, it seems you have to use a neck strap that is difficult to put on and off. I use peak design connectors with my other cameras for easy on/off of the strap. I'm not sure if they are workable on Leica or if they would lead to scratches is they were able to be put on....Show more →
I use peak design connectors on all my cameras. On a Leica, the first thing I do is cover the sides where the connectors touch the camera with gaffer tape. If it’s good quality, it will leave no marks when you remove it later.
