The SL system has to compete in a market where Leica does not have a niche monopoly. This space is dominated by Canikony and traditionally these brands have released cameras at price points that have remained pretty consistent over the years. For example, in 2005 the Canon 5D was released at USD 3300 and the R5II is currently selling for $3900 (though MSRP is $4400). $3300 in 2005 is equivalent to about $5500 now. So at least with Canon's 5 series, the MSRP price point has increased somewhat, but not in step with inflation. The high end of the pro DSLR market used to be around $4500 in the mid 2000s and the big 3's top mirrorless bodies are now around $7000, though Nikon's Z9 MSRP is just under $6000.
If Leica had paced SL pricing at minimum with inflation, it would now be over $10K, for a camera that does not compete at the same level as the Sony a1, Canon R1 or Nikon Z9. Frankly, technologically, it also doesn't universally compete at the R5II/Z8 level. Of course, it's still a great camera in its own right, but as a Leica, pricing is its own thing, yet at least for the SL series, it can't be entirely disconnected from reality.
tnteresting that Leica now prices the M6 - with built in meter - the same as the meterless M-A.
Both are $7000. While the MP is now $7100.
The price increase is understandablw due to the R&D required to design a new pressure plate that does not scratch film.
D@mmit, it's only Monday and I've used up my weekly "Leica scratches film" comment already.
I own these cameras. But I bought two of them used for a fraction of the now new cost. And the M6 was bought new in 2022 at almost 40% less than the new price now. That was only four years ago. I could not imagine buying any of these new today.
The film cameras were around $4K for the longest time, now $7K, I now kind of regret not buying one at the time.
Interesting as well that they have increased the price of the in my opinion already hugely overpriced M EV1, even though if rumors are to be believed Leica is disappointed with the sales of the M EV1...
SlowDriver wrote:
The film cameras were around $4K for the longest time, now $7K, I now kind of regret not buying one at the time.
Interesting as well that they have increased the price of the in my opinion already hugely overpriced M EV1, even though if rumors are to be believed Leica is disappointed with the sales of the M EV1...
Yes, it's a small price increase. The EV1 already sold to those who really wanted one, so I think it's wise they didn't push the price too much. I'm more surprised by the huge jump for the M11-D, which is also a niche model.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, it's a small price increase. The EV1 already sold to those who really wanted one, so I think it's wise they didn't push the price too much. I'm more surprised by the huge jump for the M11-D, which is also a niche model.
The M11-D is a vibe camera. Nothing additional to a stock M11. Hardware components are reduced, thus it sells for the emotional flair. You can allways ask more money for emotions. This is the reason for the price increase.
In addition the run might have been limited, if stock goes down, prices go up. Its the way prices go if you buy jewelry. Leica sees itself in such a market environment.
Real photographers are decreasing I believe. They are needed to keep the vibe but not really many. For the rest, most Leicas end up as decoration on some glas shelf. I‘m firmly convinced that of all Leicas sold, only a few are used for taking images. And even these are rarely shot, mostly in environments with low risk to the camera (despite it being sturdy).
For the rest, most Leicas end up as decoration on some glas shelf. I‘m firmly convinced that of all Leicas sold, only a few are used for taking images. And even these are rarely shot, mostly in environments with low risk to the camera (despite it being sturdy).
Is this really the case? Not for one moment am I questioning what you say — this is more of a rhetorical question — but I find it both rather astonishing and actually quite interesting. Some Leica cameras, especially the older ones, can look rather classy, but I feel no desire to stick one on a shelf. Give me a nice model steam engine any day. (And I’ve yet to come across a steam engine that scratches film.)
Clearly, folk here who take lots of photos are in a minority, and I don’t think my M11 would qualify as any sort of decoration. Other than by comparison with me, I suppose ….
I can see the M film camera price increase over the past ~5 years being a reflection of the extremely niche market these are in, just to support very low volume manufacturing, staff dedicated to this, plus service support. Whether a camera has metering or not, the parts cost differential is likely insignificant compared to the overall cost of just being able to offer these cameras.
The breadth of the product catalog, all of which is relatively low volume compared to other brands, cannot be inexpensive to maintain.
Leica's brand position also allows them to get away with pretty much setting whatever pricing they want. Sure there will always be a point where some potential buyers will be priced out, but as long as they keep finding buyers...
Apparently they've managed to achieve annual growth, so it's still working...
SlowDriver wrote:
Leica has now increased the price of an M with 58% in less than a decade... and the price of the Q (since 2015) with 78%...
The price of the SL though (also since 2015) has pretty much remained unchanged, i.e. from $7,450 to $7,485...
Proof how "great" the SL sells in general....prices increase on high demand items as usual. Surprised actually that the SL pricing remained so constant and didn't even decrease (ignoring the inflation which is calculated in a decrease in pricing).
Desmolicious wrote:
I'm just glad I bought all my Leica gear a long time ago and do not feel wanting for anything more!
+1. Looking back 10 years ago, I bought my first Leica M camera - the Leica M6 non-TTL made in 1995 - in original plastic case and in nearly mint condition for $1209 from a reputable used camera dealer. I added a mint M7 made in 2003 a year later for $1705. Those were the good times where digital was still in full swing, and film photography was just at the beginning to rise again. My M6 remains to date my most used and favorite Leica M film camera.
I bought M8, M9, M240 & M11 new as soon as they were available. I was very expensive but each time, I sold the previous one and it helped (sold an M7 for the M8).
I'm not sure I will buy the M12 if Leica continue to increase prices. I already stopped buying their lenses: my pictures are not worse.
I'm still ready to pay a premium for the rangefinder. If not, I would use a Sony A7CII or A7CR with a Kolari mod.
But up to a point and my M11 is more than I need in a camera.
burningheart wrote:
Last year when the US Tariffs came into effect Leica went too far for Canada.
Since Leica ships to the US first then ships to Canadian dealers we were hit with those same tariffs. The Canadian dealers pushed back but Leica wouldn't adjust their process.
No matter I consider my Leica M kit complete in terms of lenses, buying a new body is on the bottom of my list of things to do.
I still consider 2nd hand purchases but new would take something special for me to jump.
It is this fact (that secondary market values don't keep up with new product price increases) that prompts me to buy all my Leica gear used. There's so much lightly used Leica equipment out there for much cheaper than new. While the digital cameras have the largest delta between new and used, I am often surprised that secondary market prices on lenses are also a lot lower than new. I am kind of interested in a 21mm Summilux at some point, and the new prices are 40-50% lower than new for that lens.
Arka wrote:
Maybe it's because the CV Ultron 21 exists. (granted it's an f/1.8, but it's a tenth of the price of a new Summilux!)
I am using the CV 21/1.8 since almost 11 years now. It's a keeper lens. My only complaint is its fixed lens hood making it impossible to use step-down filter attachments.
but it's monday and you already used your quota of one scratched film joke a week 
