p.1 #1 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
Hello,
I have been using a Zeiss ZM 35mm f2.8 Biogon on an M8. The focusing ring has been very stiff, but the lens focused accurately with my M8 at all apertures and distances. When out shooting, the focus suddenly became loose and the rangefinder no longer worked.
When I took the lens off, the M8 roller was still "springy." It moves when pushed with my finger and springs back into place when I released it.
When I looked at the lens, if I move the focus ring the lens barrel moves with elements moving in and out.
I don't think the Biogon has a brass focus cam, I think it is black plastic and I don't see this moving...
Do you suspect that the issue is with the lens or camera... to be clear, the rangefinder looks as if there is no lens attached when I attach the Biogon to the camera.
Unfortunately, I only have one lens for the M body now, and I don't know anyone in the Santa Cruz area who shoots with Leica M cameras...
p.1 #2 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
The cam on the lens has to be moving about 1/4" from close to infinity and pushing on the roller.
Check whether gently pushing the roller in with your finger is changing the rangefinder focus. It should be at the minimum focus distance with no lens attached. There should be no perceptible friction.
Had an odd issue with an M2 before. The focusing got stiffer over a part of the focus ring travel. Thought it was the new lens at first, but turned out it was the body. Eventually focus calibration went haywire. The body was on warranty, ended up exchanging as I had a nice trip coming up and did not want to go without an M.
p.1 #3 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
burchyk wrote:
The cam on the lens has to be moving about 1/4" from close to infinity and pushing on the roller.
Check whether gently pushing the roller in with your finger is changing the rangefinder focus. It should be at the minimum focus distance with no lens attached. There should be no perceptible friction.
Had an odd issue with an M2 before. The focusing got stiffer over a part of the focus ring travel. Thought it was the new lens at first, but turned out it was the body. Eventually focus calibration went haywire. The body was on warranty, ended up exchanging as I had a nice trip coming up and did not want to go without an M....Show more →
Thanks for the note...when I gently push on the focus roller, the second rangefinder square appears. I can simulate lining up the rangefinder when I aim the camera at a vertical line and gently push the focus roller. I wish I had a second lens to test this with
p.1 #5 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
Desmolicious wrote:
Bruce, aren’t there any camera stores in your neck of the woods? If you happen to be in the SoCal area you can borrow one of my lenses.
Thanks for the offer...
I live in Santa Cruz, and while San Jose has a camera store, they don't have any M-mount lenses.... I called and asked.
San Francisco is 90 minutes away on a good day... I'm thinking of going to the Leica Store tomorrow. The camera I have looks really good and, like I said, the rangefinder seemed dead on with the Biogon until the cam disappeared (I think is stuck in the barrel).
The shutter is the strangest thing... a clunk with a tinny buzz as it re-cocks. Given that most of these are still selling for 2K to 2.5K, I feel that if I had to replace the shutter I'd still have a good camera for many years.
I am not interested in the high MP M's... I just can't justify the expense. I miss film, but don't want to pay for rolls, wait, and get mediocre scans. The M8 is my "film" camera... super tempermental, slow, clunky, but those colors!!! I feel like I'm shooting chrome film again... I had an M9... sold it and have major regrets. I'd get another one, but they are now 3K plus w/ the newer sensors.
p.1 #6 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
OwlsEyes wrote:
Thanks for the offer...
I live in Santa Cruz, and while San Jose has a camera store, they don't have any M-mount lenses.... I called and asked.
San Francisco is 90 minutes away on a good day... I'm thinking of going to the Leica Store tomorrow. The camera I have looks really good and, like I said, the rangefinder seemed dead on with the Biogon until the cam disappeared (I think is stuck in the barrel).
The shutter is the strangest thing... a clunk with a tinny buzz as it re-cocks. Given that most of these are still selling for 2K to 2.5K, I feel that if I had to replace the shutter I'd still have a good camera for many years.
I am not interested in the high MP M's... I just can't justify the expense. I miss film, but don't want to pay for rolls, wait, and get mediocre scans. The M8 is my "film" camera... super tempermental, slow, clunky, but those colors!!! I feel like I'm shooting chrome film again... I had an M9... sold it and have major regrets. I'd get another one, but they are now 3K plus w/ the newer sensors.
That buzz after the shutter closes is normal at some of the low speeds. If it does it at all speeds there is an issue.
I'm aware of Seawood photo, they are even farther than the Leica Store in SF. I've got a few lesser-priced lenses on their way, one will arrive tomorrow. I wanted something to make sure that the camera is fine.
Regarding the shutter... it's not the shutter itself that buzzes, but the re-cocking of the shutter for next shot. My camera came with a non-oem battery and I purchased a second one. Because the camera is in such good shape, I decided to buy a new Leica Battery from B&H... not cheap, but it should provide the best power to the camera. Unless the M8 fails in the next 20 days, I'll be keeping it.
I really like the form factor / size and UI of the M8 and may consider replacing the shutter and doing an LCD upgrade with Kolari. They are the one company I know that continues to replace parts and do work on the M8. For me, the camera is in the sweet spot for how I would use a Leica.
Because I spend most of my time shooting wildlife and landscapes, Leica cameras are not an ideal fit for my uses. I, however, do like to travel and do a bit of street photography. The M8 provides me with a small camera that I can put on the shoulder and shoot in those urban and rural environments where I'm documenting the experience. Everything about it is a bit grungy, unpolished, and unapologetic... I like to think of it as an M3 w/ out the hassles of film.
p.1 #8 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
OwlsEyes wrote:
When I looked at the lens, if I move the focus ring the lens barrel moves with elements moving in and out.
I don't think the Biogon has a brass focus cam, I think it is black plastic and I don't see this moving...
Then, the lens has certainly failed.
The camera might have a problem too (that would be very unlucky to have both fail at the same time), but if the lens focus cam does not move (am I understanding your message correctly ? sorry if I do not!), then this is enough to explain the symptom (no rangefinder motion while you are focusing the lens).
If you want to troubleshoot things a bit more, you could take several pictures with aperture wide open and with distance set on the scale, e.g.:
- scale focus set to infinity; is the sharpness zone in the (long) distance area ?
- scale focus set to minimum focusing distance; is the sharpness zone close to the camera ?
That could show whether the lens focusing is completely off or not: one possibility is it does not change focus at all; another is it does, but just does not synchronise focusing distance with the camera (mechanically).
p.1 #9 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
If I understand how a rangefinder and lens works together, there is typically a brass ring that surrounds the barrel that holds the lens elements. All of this is housed in another barrel, and the focus ring slides the tube with the elements back and forth. The surrounding brass ring is asymmetrical with a high point and low point that interacts with the rangefinder focusing roller inside the lens mount.
The brass ring does not exist (or is not visible to me). When I twist the focusing ring of the unmounted lens, I see the barrel holding the elements move back and forth... thus if I were to use this lens with an EVF, I'm pretty certain I could focus it. However, my camera is an M8 and I need the brass barrel to interact with the rangefinder roller in order to see the movement of the rangefinder patch in my viewfinder.
p.1 #10 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
OwlsEyes wrote:
I'm aware of Seawood photo, they are even farther than the Leica Store in SF. I've got a few lesser-priced lenses on their way, one will arrive tomorrow. I wanted something to make sure that the camera is fine.
Regarding the shutter... it's not the shutter itself that buzzes, but the re-cocking of the shutter for next shot. My camera came with a non-oem battery and I purchased a second one. Because the camera is in such good shape, I decided to buy a new Leica Battery from B&H... not cheap, but it should provide the best power to the camera. Unless the M8 fails in the next 20 days, I'll be keeping it.
I really like the form factor / size and UI of the M8 and may consider replacing the shutter and doing an LCD upgrade with Kolari. They are the one company I know that continues to replace parts and do work on the M8. For me, the camera is in the sweet spot for how I would use a Leica.
Because I spend most of my time shooting wildlife and landscapes, Leica cameras are not an ideal fit for my uses. I, however, do like to travel and do a bit of street photography. The M8 provides me with a small camera that I can put on the shoulder and shoot in those urban and rural environments where I'm documenting the experience. Everything about it is a bit grungy, unpolished, and unapologetic... I like to think of it as an M3 w/ out the hassles of film.
p.1 #12 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
OwlsEyes wrote:
If I understand how a rangefinder and lens works together, there is typically a brass ring that surrounds the barrel that holds the lens elements. All of this is housed in another barrel, and the focus ring slides the tube with the elements back and forth. The surrounding brass ring is asymmetrical with a high point and low point that interacts with the rangefinder focusing roller inside the lens mount.
Exactly. The moving ring is not necessarily brass; in the case of the ZM lenses, I believe it is black and I do not remember whether it is metal or plastic (I believe metal, but I do not own a ZM lens anymore and do not remember).
I see it in this picture (I just searched a random link with a good picture of the 35/2.8 ZM) :
OwlsEyes wrote:
The brass ring does not exist (or is not visible to me). When I twist the focusing ring of the unmounted lens, I see the barrel holding the elements move back and forth... thus if I were to use this lens with an EVF, I'm pretty certain I could focus it. However, my camera is an M8 and I need the brass barrel to interact with the rangefinder roller in order to see the movement of the rangefinder patch in my viewfinder.
That means indeed it just the lens synchronisation that failed...
p.1 #13 · Sudden Focus Failure Zeiss ZM 35 f2.8 and M8... Camera or Lens Issue?
Just a follow-up...
Because the M8 was purchased from Adorama w/ a limited return window, I ordered any lens that Amazon could deliver w/in 24hours. It was a frivolous decision, but the 7-Artisans 35mm f2 (vii) was on black-Friday sale for $238. I figured... what do I have to lose, as I could always return it.
I mounted the lens today, and the rangefinder worked like a charm. Of course the lens is not well calibrated... I've read that this is one reason the 7-Artisans are so affordable, as it front focuses a bit. The lens comes with tools and chart to realign focus, so I'll be doing that this week.
Anyway, it is now clear that the issue was with the Biogon and not the camera.
