p.2 #1 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
aCuria wrote:
Back in 2000, the highest usable ISO was around 800-1600.
Today (2025), with modern sensors and noise reduction, you can comfortably shoot at ISO 25,600 which is a huge improvement, as you mentioned.
But regardless of the era, an f/1.4 lens still gives you a two-stop advantage in low light, letting you shoot in conditions that are significantly darker.
It also gives you up to a 3-stop dynamic range advantage compared to a f/4 zoom when not at base ISO.
If you have the prime in the bag, the time to switch from zoom to prime is whenever you start seeing the iso creep up above iso 100 which happens a couple of hours before sunset.
Of course its ok to shoot at iso 200/400/800 but the iso does go up quite rapidly as the sun goes down....Show more →
Sure,but the limited dof of a 1.4 lens really limits you to the type of photos you can take. I like including the surrounding environment during travels and usually shoot at f4 and higher to ensure things are in focus. F1.4 is great if you want to isolate your subjects…but doing so takes away the environment that tells you the subject is in some exotic location.
p.2 #2 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
With a 35mm lens, the background only turns to mush if you’re too close at 1.4. See the excellent environmental portraits Bastian has taken with super fast 35’s for an example of what they can do when used properly.
I had the same conundrum when I last went to Europe this spring, ended up taking the 20-70 plus two : a hyper wide (Laowa 9/5.6) and one more sorted for portraits (sigma 90/2.8i). I ended up shooting a wedding that I didn’t even know I’d be attending, and was really glad I had the sigma, though the Sony 85 1.8 or some other faster (mostly faster in focusing speed) lens could have come in handy then, but the rest of the trip I didn’t use it too much, and was glad for its small size and light weight. I chose it because I wanted my prime to extend the range of my son, not just the brightness). The Laowa I only brought for the days when I knew it might be useful (which was also the case for the sigma) and when I put it on for those occasions it got some great images that nothing else could have. It was my first time using both it and the sigma, I got them just for the trip after deciding on taking the 20-70 as my regular do it all (I was also considering the Tamron 28-200). If I went next summer I might take the sigma 20-200 and Laowa 9.
Traveling in winter months means a lot more darkness outside and a lot more time indoors though, so I think the Sony 35 gm is a pretty sound idea. I think I could be pretty happy with that paired with the 20-70 for winter travels. I found it incredibly useful to be able to go to 20mm on my standard zoom without changing lenses.
chez wrote:
Sure,but the limited dof of a 1.4 lens really limits you to the type of photos you can take. I like including the surrounding environment during travels and usually shoot at f4 and higher to ensure things are in focus. F1.4 is great if you want to isolate your subjects…but doing so takes away the environment that tells you the subject is in some exotic location.
p.2 #3 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
chez wrote:
Sure,but the limited dof of a 1.4 lens really limits you to the type of photos you can take. I like including the surrounding environment during travels and usually shoot at f4 and higher to ensure things are in focus. F1.4 is great if you want to isolate your subjects…but doing so takes away the environment that tells you the subject is in some exotic location.
p.2 #4 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
I've just returned from a trip to Europe with the 16-35 f4 PZ. No problems at f4, even for night shots of Christmas markets, etc. The latest software (LrC in my case) does an amazing job on high ISO shots. If you have a trade-off, wider rather than longer is better in European cities and venues, IMHO.
p.2 #5 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
rob_ww wrote:
I've just returned from a trip to Europe with the 16-35 f4 PZ. No problems at f4, even for night shots of Christmas markets, etc. The latest software (LrC in my case) does an amazing job on high ISO shots. If you have a trade-off, wider rather than longer is better in European cities and venues, IMHO.
No issues "taking the surrounding environment" at f/1.4.
Yeh, sure. If the distance to your subject is 50 feet, then everything is in focus…but I quite often shoot very close with wide angle lenses to give a feeling of inclusion and at a 10’ distance your dof drops to 2’. I usually increase the aperture to at least f2.8 to include the surrounding environment. A fast lens is nice at times when you are basically forced to shoot wide open. I have many shots at f1.8 using iso 12,800.
p.2 #7 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
chez wrote:
Yeh, sure. If the distance to your subject is 50 feet, then everything is in focus…but I quite often shoot very close with wide angle lenses to give a feeling of inclusion and at a 10’ distance your dof drops to 2’. I usually increase the aperture to at least f2.8 to include the surrounding environment. A fast lens is nice at times when you are basically forced to shoot wide open. I have many shots at f1.8 using iso 12,800.
This is ~5' to subject at f/1.4. 10' would be a full-body shot.
Personally I don't think the shot would be improved if I stopped down from f/1.4 to f/4 and increased the ISO 3 stops, but I suppose you want your backgrounds to be less OOF?
The processing done here is just choosing the adobe vivid profile, and then pressing auto settings.
p.2 #8 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
Everything depends on shooting style, expectations.
Most liberating trip I had when I have only a Ricoh GRIIIx with me. A7CR with 40 2.5 would do the same job just significant better, without serious size increase (however it's not pocketable)
If I'd go a trip because photographic intention, I'd bring all my best lenses for my shooting style. The question what do you want to shoot. 35GM only advantage if you intend to shoot streets at low light and want to freeze movements, like walking peoples, but can't see how subject isolation is really necessary at travelling. There are not a huge difference between f2.8 and f4, I'd take 20-70 over any f2.8 zoom because the size and range advantage, it's hard to beat as a standalone, versatile solution.
Still I'd take only a 40 2.5 with A7CR.
But I have even better solution, GFX100RF.
p.2 #9 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
aCuria wrote:
This is ~5' to subject at f/1.4. 10' would be a full-body shot.
Personally I don't think the shot would be improved if I stopped down from f/1.4 to f/4 and increased the ISO 3 stops, but I suppose you want your backgrounds to be less OOF?
The processing done here is just choosing the adobe vivid profile, and then pressing auto settings.
This shot shows exactly my point…the background is blurred. During my travels, the environment around the subject tells just as much a story as the subject itself. A vendor in a market selling goods…I want both the vendor as well as his goods in focus…they combined to tell a story. A person praying at an alter…I want both the person and the surrounding alter in focus.
I guess I’m not big on the subject isolation fad. That said I do have a lot of wide open shots due to necessity…iso 12,800.
p.2 #10 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
There are always trade-offs when considering photographic equipment for travel — the main one being the tension between maximum features and flexibility versus a desire to avoid overburdening yourself with lots of heavy and bulky gear.
In the end, it always ens up being some kind of compromise. The aperture size is a good example. Clearly, if you rely on extremely narrow DOF and/or work in extremely low light, then the value of the larger apertures may trump the option to carry smaller and lighter gear.
But it is is sometimes surprising how well the smaller, light stuff can work, especially with modern cameras that have advanced image stabilization and good image quality at higher ISOs. I no longer carry f/1.4 lenses when I travel. I usually use three small primes, two with f/2.8 apertures and one at f/2. (And I use a APS-C system for travel, which further minimizes the ability to darrow the DOF.)
But I regularly photograph at night using a handheld camera with these f/2 and f/2.8 lenses and get good results. And while you get more background blur from f/1.4 and f/1.2 lenses, you still get some blur even from a f/2.8 lens in many situations.
p.2 #11 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
To me, it's not just a question of giving up a stop and gaining four mm on the wide end. There's a big difference in overall IQ, made more evident the closer you focus where the relatively detail-light draw of the 20-70 becomes more obvious and the quality of the bokeh gets more distracting. I'm not saying the 20-70 is a bad lens. If I were landscape hiking, and all my shots were going to be stopped down at hyperfocal or stacked, it'd be a fine companion.
But, for travel with family and friends where its going to a be a lot of mixed distances and subjects and lighting conditions, and I'm choosing a zoom over my preferred primes, then it's going to be my best all-arounder, and that's certainly the GMII.
p.2 #12 · F4 zoom + GM prime vs. F2.8 zoom-only for trip
As @freaklikeme has suggested, I think it depends on the nature of the photos you want to be able to take while traveling. I had an f/4 standard zoom and primes for years but at the moment I have an f/2.8 standard zoom and (fewer primes) because I much prefer the f/2.8 zoom over the f/4 zoom for people photos. If, on a particular trip, I was mainly interested just in landscapes (including cityscapes) then I would prefer an f/4 zoom with greater range over the f/2.8 zoom. However, I am not doing those sorts of trips at the moment, and apart from those sorts of trips, I prefer the f/2.8 zoom.
And yes, of course, you have the option of using some other lens, eg a prime, and the f/4 zoom to cover the different situations. You have to decide, however, how much you will be changing lenses and whether you are happy doing that while traveling.
