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BOS photo question

  
 
EverLearning
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p.1 #1 · BOS photo question


I have a question that doesn't seem well-suited to the presentation boards (and I like my head attached to my shoulders, ) nor the gear forums. I am looking for some perspectives/opinions on BOS (Birds On a Stick) photos.

After a few evolutions of my web site I am changing it again. I am going to have content not visible from the site menus. It will just be for sharing with family and friends. The part visible from the web site will be strictly "best of best" and I am striving to keep it to a max of 100 photos across all categories, total. This is proving difficult, as emotional, biased attachment to photos seems to hold for many years!

One type of photo I am really struggling with is the BOS photos. That type of photo certainly draws some strong, negative reaction on this photography site (especially wildlife presentation board) but I wonder if that is a function of "demanding" (not the best word?) something unique and BOS photos are "too easy".

Coming to this forum to pose this question, I was drawn to another thread and came across this comment:

"My take: Interesting is a matter of degree. People like novelty. Something a bit more novel seems more interesting than something more common."

This speaks to my initial inclination to exclude BOS photos unless there is something really unusual or incredible about them. On the other hand, over the years several people (especially Kent) here have written at length about the many things that can make an otherwise "common" photo stand out - vibrant colours, patterns, textures, nature, placement and degrees of variance in lighting, very pleasing background, etc.

I think I have two questions:

1) As a photographer do you ever have "common" BOS photos that for whatever reason still stand out to you as special?
2) Do you find yourself surprised by strong positive reactions from non-photographers to "common" BOS photos that you didn't think were that good?

Thanks



Nov 15, 2025 at 07:01 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #2 · BOS photo question


EverLearning wrote:
I have a question that doesn't seem well-suited to the presentation boards (and I like my head attached to my shoulders, ) nor the gear forums. I am looking for some perspectives/opinions on BOS (Birds On a Stick) photos.

After a few evolutions of my web site I am changing it again. I am going to have content not visible from the site menus. It will just be for sharing with family and friends. The part visible from the web site will be strictly "best of best" and I am striving to keep it to a max of 100 photos across
...Show more

I think a lot of it depends on how you look at your own photos. I like birds and like to see the close up detail you can see in birds on a stick. Birds in flight are harder to capture, but you don’t usually get the close detail. The more scarce colorful species of birds will grab attention more so than a common bird.

When I take a photo with just the bird and an empty background the art part of the photo is the bird and all I did was to capture it, so I consider it a photograph. A photo of a bird with a more complex background and foreground where I have to do more thinking about colors, composition etc, I think is on a different level.

The words unique and novel put photos on an even higher level. For some folks unique and novel will not be enough to make a bird photo interesting, simply because they have no interest in bird photos.

Only you know how you feel about your photos, and it is your choice to pick and choose which photos go where.



Edited on Nov 16, 2025 at 05:37 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2025 at 12:57 PM
Shasoc
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p.1 #3 · BOS photo question


EverLearning wrote:
I have a question that doesn't seem well-suited to the presentation boards (and I like my head attached to my shoulders, ) nor the gear forums. I am looking for some perspectives/opinions on BOS (Birds On a Stick) photos.

After a few evolutions of my web site I am changing it again. I am going to have content not visible from the site menus. It will just be for sharing with family and friends. The part visible from the web site will be strictly "best of best" and I am striving to keep it to a max of 100 photos across
...Show more



Don, I believe your post can be summarized in your last question: Do you find yourself surprised by strong positive reactions from non-photographers to "common" BOS photos.
To me the answer is: “Not at all”. And that doesn’t apply just to BOS.
IOW Photographers and ordinary people look at your photos in a different way. Photographers tend to focus on technical execution and artistic principles, (and commonality), while non-photographers focus primarily on the emotional impact, storytelling, and overall appeal of the image.

A photo can be technically "perfect", interesting, for a photographer, but it might seem cold or boring to an ordinary person. On the other hand, while an imperfect, “common” shot might be widely loved by the general public, it will be critiqued for its flaws by an expert, by a photographer.

You are posting your photos on your site for people to enjoy them, not to be critiqued. Some people may like them; some others may not. That is the way it works. You don’t post your photos because you want other photographers to see what you saw, you post them because you want other people to experience what you experienced and possibly find pleasure in that.

In the specific case of BOS, while a (wildlife) photographer will say: “Another bird on a stick”, an ordinary viewer will say: “Cool! A pretty bird on a tree! How lovely!”.
For an ordinary person the inherent appeal of the subject itself outweighs not only the technical execution, but the so-called commonality. A pretty, colorful bird on a stick, with an attitude, will overcome not only any tech flaw, but also any “commonality” in the eyes of an ordinary viewer. And s/he is going to love that photo of a bird on a stick because ordinary people focus on what they find visually appealing and that will bring some joy to them.

So, my advice would be to post on your site photos of BOS w/o thinking that it is “Another Bird on the Stick”. There is nothing “common” for an ordinary viewer in a BOS photo.

Socrate



Nov 16, 2025 at 01:07 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · BOS photo question


Hmmm ... trying to remember the last time I saw a Penguin on a Stick.

Short version ... pi$$ on what others think.

Long version ....
Have you seen the realm of "common" things that photographers of all genre's shoot? If you take the notion that because its common, it's not worthy ... you're tossing out the opportunity to bring YOUR ability to take the common and raise it to a level that is beyond the common. That, then becomes the exception in exceptionalism.

I forget the names of certain bird photographers, but I recall seeing these images of birds that were exceptional ... yet, NONE of them were "in flight". The thing about "in flight" is the challenges it presents, and it presents as a "badge of honor" to be exceptional at mastering those challenges. In some regard, that becomes a game of "see what I did" to overcome Bird Everest. And yet, we can still take pictures of mountains without climbing them ... images that are compelling, moving, exciting, soulful, etc.

That said ... simply stated ... don't let OTHERS define your work. You are you. Your work is your work.

Now, with that in mind, I would suggest that when working with "common" subjects (my bridges / railroads are all "common" items), you bring your vision / view / perspective / ideas to the subject. That, and CULL HARD.

I think too, the notion of "Body of Work" is in play. By that, I mean ... well, here's an AI / Google answer that is fitting (imo).

A deep photographic study of a narrow idea or subject, often called a photo essay or a conceptual photography project, involves using images to explore specific ideas, themes, or emotions in depth. This approach emphasizes the photographer's vision and interpretation rather than just a simple recording of a scene.

If your BOS is approached as just some random BOS without any conceptualization in cohesive presentation, then they may look very "common". But, I think that how you approach it will distinguish it as "deeper" than something "common". That said, common folks don't do "deep", they do random ... and that retains the common element, lacking the differentiation in presentation as a Body of Work / Essay / Project / etc.

I can think of a multitude of "common" themes that photographers have harnessed into BOW / Essay / Project and been heralded for it. It largely had NOTHING to do with the subject being "common", rather it was the discipline of approach ... intertwined with the personal approach / engagement that could become specifically identifiable to the BOW, etc. ... that transforms it from "common" to "uncommon". Otherwise presented as an "exception to the common". The irony being that the only way to be an exceptional foray into the common, is to use the common. Almost oxymoronic, yet self-defining.

Summary: Don's BOS ... knock it out of the park. Folks should be saying, "Wow, that's really taking BOS to the nest (typo, but works ) level."

Always a fan, HTH.




Nov 16, 2025 at 09:57 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #5 · BOS photo question


grandmas wrote:
When I take a photo with just the bird and an empty background the art part of the photo is the bird and all I did was to capture it, so I consider it a photograph. A photo of a bird with a more complex background and foreground where I have to do more thinking about colors, composition etc, I think is on a different level.



Perhaps this thought (and I don't disagree with it in one sense) is at the heart of what I am pondering. I think wildlife photographers tend to tie the difficulty in getting the shot to its "worthiness". the average viewer is unaware of what went into capturing the photo and may be drawn to a "simple" photo because of the vibrant colours, beautiful lighting and a variety of things that may only register subconsciously. I do think at times I am guilty of this and am surprised by some of the photos that my family and friends are drawn to (ones that had almost not even posted to my site).

Do you think this is a fair/accurate observation? Or have misunderstood what the above is alluding to?



Nov 17, 2025 at 12:32 AM
EverLearning
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p.1 #6 · BOS photo question


Shasoc wrote:
You are posting your photos on your site for people to enjoy them, not to be critiqued.

Socrate


Thanks for sharing your thoughts Socrate. Regarding the above, I think I am posting for two more reasons; one more significant than the other. I got my first digital camera Christmas, 2003 and my interest in photography sky rocketed. When I look back at some of those older photos (even ones from 8-10 years ago) I cringe. I know I have come a long way (and I hope my photographic journey still has a long way to go). After nearly 22 years, I came to realize I do have a reasonable number of very good photos; be they emotive, colourful, unique or some combination thereof. What I am going to be putting public-facing will be the best of my best. But what is that? My parents have passed. My wife's parents are in their 90s and don't really comment any more on my posted photos. One daughter is off in the remote wilderness working for 6 months at a time and the other is a person of few words! My family is VERY small. When I was working, people wanted to see my photos and I got lots of feedback. Being retired for several years now that doesn't happen. So while I get some feedback from photography friends, I get little from non-photography folks. I feel like there is big blind spot in my ability to understand how these people view and enjoy photos.

The minor reason for redoing my site is I am going to have my card put up at a variety of businesses I frequent and, hey, if I sell a few photos, great! So, in that sense, I want to put my best foot forward.



Nov 17, 2025 at 12:44 AM
EverLearning
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p.1 #7 · BOS photo question


RustyBug wrote:
I forget the names of certain bird photographers, but I recall seeing these images of birds that were exceptional ... yet, NONE of them were "in flight". The thing about "in flight" is the challenges it presents, and it presents as a "badge of honor" to be exceptional at mastering those challenges. In some regard, that becomes a game of "see what I did" to overcome Bird Everest. And yet, we can still take pictures of mountains without climbing them ... images that are compelling, moving, exciting, soulful, etc.



Good stuff, as always Kent. I think you nailed it with "badge of honor" for some folks who post over in the wildlife presentation forum. I also think with so many people having cell phone cameras, there is a "so what? I could take that!" mentality out there (even if they couldn't take that). It's like two completely different worlds.

I know y'all photographers and not "regular" folk () but tomorrow when I get a moment I will post a few photos just to get some thoughts on. Not looking for deep critiques. More just first reactions (meh, nice, love it, WOW).



Nov 17, 2025 at 12:51 AM
grandmas
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p.1 #8 · BOS photo question


EverLearning wrote:
Perhaps this thought (and I don't disagree with it in one sense) is at the heart of what I am pondering. I think wildlife photographers tend to tie the difficulty in getting the shot to its "worthiness". the average viewer is unaware of what went into capturing the photo and may be drawn to a "simple" photo because of the vibrant colours, beautiful lighting and a variety of things that may only register subconsciously. I do think at times I am guilty of this and am surprised by some of the photos that my family and friends are drawn to
...Show more

I agree 100% with what you just said.

I think a photo with a more complex background will have the viewer looking at it longer, and is why I think it is on a different level. I don't think it is necessarily a better photo.

Posting three examples of birds and I like all three for different reasons. When you view these, which photo holds your attention longer.



















Nov 17, 2025 at 01:31 AM
EverLearning
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p.1 #9 · BOS photo question


It just a personal preference of course, but the first one holds my attention for the shortest time. The second one holds my attention longer; perhaps because of the sharp bird and f/g along with the soft, pleasing b/g. The third one holds my attention longer; partly because of the colourful head I think, partly because of the prey in its beak and partly because I imagine it feeding a young one(s).


Nov 17, 2025 at 01:42 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #10 · BOS photo question


I was going to upload a few photos but I realized I dropped my upload & sell membership some time ago. The intended photos are on my web site though:

Black capped chickadee

The black capped chickadee is so common that it is uncommon on presentation sites and web sites. I just really like the pose and the b/g (both softness and the complementary colours)

Rufous-Collared Sparrow

The word "sparrow" makes some go "ho hum" but I like this photo because a) it is not a bird found north of Southern Mexico, it is an interesting pose to me, the b/g is pleasing (soft and the colours work with the subject) and its perch is nicer than your average stick

Golden-Hooded Tanager

Beautiful colours, very sharp, good pose, b/g is both soft/pleasant and but also has a subtle yet interesting "movement" of the green (just feels a little less static than most backgrounds)


Juvenile Lewis's Woodpecker

Nice pose, soft/pleasant b/g and, maybe the biggest thing, doing more than sitting on a stick (piece of wood in its beak; presumably digging for bugs)

None are engaged in aerial combat, eating their prey in the air, actively feeding chicks, etc but i THINK they would have appeal with non-photographers. This is the thing I am struggling with re BOS photos.



Nov 17, 2025 at 02:00 PM
 


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grandmas
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p.1 #11 · BOS photo question


EverLearning wrote:
It just a personal preference of course, but the first one holds my attention for the shortest time. The second one holds my attention longer; perhaps because of the sharp bird and f/g along with the soft, pleasing b/g. The third one holds my attention longer; partly because of the colourful head I think, partly because of the prey in its beak and partly because I imagine it feeding a young one(s).


That is the same way that I see them, and I also think the general public will also view them the same way. I was thinking this might give you some ideas about sorting your own photos.



Nov 17, 2025 at 02:39 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #12 · BOS photo question


Something else to consider, when looking at a bird on a stick. Personally I think they are more interesting when shot as close as possible for the visible detail otherwise not seen. I think the detail is what makes a bird on a stick photo interesting. When shot far away you need to have an interesting background or foreground. Keep in mind this is my 2 cents worth, and others may disagree.

It still all comes down to your personal preference and taste.



Nov 17, 2025 at 04:48 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #13 · BOS photo question


To repeat Rustybug's comments....don't let others define your work or interests.

That said what is your interest in taking pictures of BOSs? Is it the thrill of the hunt? Finding an unusual bird or at least a bird that is rarely found where you live? Many like the big telephoto lenses and other advanced gear. Is that part of the appeal for you? Many birds are very beautiful. Is documenting that an end in itself?

Beyond the technical aspects, is there an artistic component that appeals to you? Are you trying to communicate something to the viewer? What is it?

I suggest that you spend some time thinking about what it is that appeals to you about BOS or any aspect of photography and then pursue that interest. If you pursue that passion it will come across at least to those of us who love photography. I have no idea about what would be of more universal appeal. It seems for many, if not most, pictures of friends and food at a restaurant are of most interest.



Nov 17, 2025 at 05:24 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #14 · BOS photo question


Camperjim wrote:
To repeat Rustybug's comments....don't let others define your work or interests.

That said what is your interest in taking pictures of BOSs? Is it the thrill of the hunt? Finding an unusual bird or at least a bird that is rarely found where you live? Many like the big telephoto lenses and other advanced gear. Is that part of the appeal for you? Many birds are very beautiful. Is documenting that an end in itself?

Beyond the technical aspects, is there an artistic component that appeals to you? Are you trying to communicate something to the viewer? What is it?

I
...Show more

I am not sure his question is understood. He is not asking how or why to take bird photos. He already has the photos and is trying to figure out how to display or not display his BOS photos for his web page and hopefully sell some.



Nov 17, 2025 at 06:55 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #15 · BOS photo question


Grandmas, while you are correct in a sense, he raises some good questions. I have actually given thought to these in the past and as I recall even had some discussion on it here a number of years ago.

Perhaps my interest is because I camped from a very young age and got to enjoy nature from that early age. As somebody who worked in the sometimes stressful field of IT, I found walking in a nearby forest or otherwise engaging with nature to be both relaxing and energizing (recharging of the drained emotional batteries). With my work in IT being very analytical, I also appreciated the opportunity to develop and exercise the creative muscles.

I have always had a special joy and wonderment with nature and in particular wildlife. My reasons for photographing wildlife are varied but probably primarily that it gives me joy to observe and appreciate nature and also to share its beauty and wonderment with others.

As for the photo links, as mentioned, I am not looking for critiques per se but rather interested in what your initial response to them was and if they have appeal for WHATEVER reason.



Nov 17, 2025 at 10:41 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · BOS photo question


grandmas wrote:
I am not sure his question is understood. He is not asking how or why to take bird photos. He already has the photos and is trying to figure out how to display or not display his BOS photos for his web page and hopefully sell some.


I didn't get the "sell some" from the OP ... share with friends and family.

But, even If the mission is to "sell some", I think that the body of work cohesion for BOS lends itself toward "documentarian" moreover than "action hunter" (if labeling aids the conversation, not meant to be restrictive). The former "label" being more in line with the (my perception) naturalist. Sure, BIF and combat is part of the natural activity of the bird ... but, a true bird appreciation individual will be appreciative of the mundane aspects of bird activity / character / behavior, as well. And (imo) that includes more than the BIF alone. That said, my observation of BOS has been that they offer more facial / body expressiveness, or more of that mating / flirting thing (I forget what birders call that). Imo, the naturalist (Don's personal bent, iirc) studies the species differently than the action hunter does.

That latter part being of significance if Don does look for a target market audience ... niche ... naturalists. Often times the general public is "WOW" by the action hunter. Why, because it something they (perceive vs. real) think they CANNOT do. Whereas, many folks don't get "WOW" by BOS, because (in their mind), they think they can do that. Of course, they mostly don't, but yet are not "emotively" moved by the BOS the same way they are by BIF, for the noted difference, relative to their perception of their own capabilities.

Contrast that with a naturalist who understands the diligence of capture / cataloging behaviors that are BOS or non-BIF. Now, we have those who appreciate what WAS captured, rather than being dismissive for what wasn't captured.

Some folks think exotic flowers are pretty. Other folks think prairie grass is lovely. Jim's florals come to mind (hey Jim, how ya been, btw). Not all folks appreciate his work ... yet, some do. Even if those who do are a minority number, Jim's not gonna dismiss his work because he isn't following suit to the others. There's the matter of chasing "oooh's and aaaah's" ... vs. the matter of showcasing your best work. And, simply put ... if Don's work leans into the BOS / behavioral / naturalist aspect moreover than the action packed BIF ... then, Don's best work (cull hard / cohesively) remains Don's best work to be presented accordingly

Not every model is a supermodel. Some are tried and true journeyman (person) models ... i.e. catalog models, etc. They aren't supermodels, they are regular models. There exist space for each. BIF and BOS ... well, if the BIF folks are busy making great BIF, who is knocking out great BOS?

All of which takes us back to Don being Don ... and being true to himself is of great merit. Besides, the folks who know Don, will understand that those BOS are part of who he is. Naturalist / behavioralist / etc. ... at least that's part of my identification to Don's work (going back to our discussion about extensive PP, etc.).

Anyway, I'm long ... but, seriously I'd simply showcase your work, in the best possible manner (cull hard / cohesive / disciplined / etc.). Leave the work that others are doing (BIF, etc.) to them.

Your work is your work ... period.







Nov 17, 2025 at 10:41 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #17 · BOS photo question


EverLearning wrote:
As for the photo links, as mentioned, I am not looking for critiques per se but rather interested in what your initial response to them was and if they have appeal for WHATEVER reason.


They all have some appeal for me, but I enjoy birds more than the average person. I also photograph flowers when I can and they usually get the same appeal as a bird on a stick. I am thankful that I can do what I enjoy.

Have fun sorting photos!




Nov 17, 2025 at 11:29 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #18 · BOS photo question


Kent, as mentioned, I do enjoy "sharing" the awe-inspiring beauty of nature, so hopefully the best of best serves that purpose. I also find both knowing a photo could go to my web site and then seeing what I have already captured helps to inspire me; in "getting out there" but also on the technical side (more attention to detail in all regards to capture a better photo in-camera). That said, I wouldn't be adverse to selling a photo or two!

I know you didn't mean for the label "documentarian" to be restrictive nor negative. I would say my goal is that each photo looks nature (like one could really see that in nature) even if I am removing a few distractions and doing a few other tweaks in post. I have come around to the idea of increasing colours and contrast a bit more than I used to but I still avoid the "other wordly" look that some wildlife photographers bring to their photos in post. I can comfortably say that it is not one of my goals to catalog behaviours nor to acquire a comprehensive list of species (an objective very common with birders).



Nov 17, 2025 at 11:40 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #19 · BOS photo question


Hey Don, yeah ... I was just trying to find a way to differentiate "natural" from "other worldly". So, I think you understand what I was trying to say. TBH, the term BOS ... I never gave it as much consideration, until this thread. I just consider it to be part of their natural habitat.. So, when I think of you and your work ... IDK, it makes perfect sense to me that you'd have some nice work in that regard.. Just be you ...

Although ... about that Penguin.




Nov 18, 2025 at 04:23 AM
EverLearning
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p.1 #20 · BOS photo question


RustyBug wrote:
Although ... about that Penguin.



Ah man, I can't believe I deleted my Penguin on a Stick photo! I just thought it was another BOS . I suppose the seal holding the stick in its mouth should have made it a keeper though...



Nov 18, 2025 at 02:04 PM
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