p.1 #1 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
I have the Yongnuo RF603cii remotes. They work really well for triggering my camera's shutter aside from one thing.- they won't trigger a remote camera when you shoot a different camera with the Yongnuo attached to the hot-shoe. I've tried all kinds of things but can't get that to work. It seems that the only way to trigger a camera's shutter using the Yongnuo is to press the button on the transmitter itself.
If anyone has any suggestion on the above, I'd love to hear it. They are cheap and work well for what they do but I want to shoot a basketball game with a remote camera on the floor right next to me and with a wide angle lens. I want that remote camera to fire everytime I shoot using my handheld camera.
It seems then that pocketwizard is the only way to go for this (correct me if I'm wrong). I have not done much research or reading on this so I'm trying to find out what you'd suggest for my scenario. It looks like a couple of X-plus pocketwizards will do the trick, but before I buy I want to make sure I"m not also missing out if I want to do longer remotes in the future.
I shoot both Canon and Sony so it would need to be cross-platform.
p.1 #2 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
It seems that someone has got it to work with the Yongnuo units, but I can't understand from their post. Does anyone understand the schematics of what he's doing here? Here is a quote that I'm trying to understand:
"I have my 603-II working to fire two cameras at once. In the case of my canon 7d the standard remote cable is plugged into the standard remote port. I then have a connection that goes from that plug to a hot shoe converter which only touches the center point of the hot shoe of the 603. It will also work to not have the hot shoe converter and go directly into the pc port on the 603. But I don't currently have one of these cables"
p.1 #3 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
I've done some reading over time and came across the post you linked. To be honest I don't get most of the forum threads on the topic of remote cameras. Probably because some triggers behave a bit different than others and the situation people intend to realize is described in words, which I think will often result in more confusion. In the example you linked I do not quite understand what needs to trigger what and how many cameras and/ or flashes are involved.
To my understanding you want to shoot with a camera in hand, and when you press the shutter you want a signal to the remote camera. With what I understand from what I have read (I do not have the triggers myself):
Camera in hand with a transmitting 603 in the hot shoe. When you fire, the 603 gets a signal through the hot shoe and transmits its signal.
A receiving 603 will receive the signal from the transmitting 603 and it will give a signal itself. That signal is not radio, but an actual electronic signal. The receiving 603 unit has to deliver that signal via its own hot shoe (usually for flash mounted on it) or the available (output) port of non hot shoe flashes or cameras.
For the photo you linked, it looks to me that he uses the hot shoe of the receiving 603 to get the signal from it. The hot shoe converter is used to translate the signal from the receiver to a cord in order to get the signal to the remote (input) port of the camera.
The 603 has the options "off", "tx" and "trx", and will only receive when in "trx". It is mounted on the camera, but that is just for mounting purposes as far as I can see and not for triggering purposes.
My understanding is, this is what happens:
He has a handheld camera with a transmitting 603 in this hand (not shown in the photo). When he fires the handheld it sends a signal and, the 603 receiver on the remote camera (shown in that photo) will receive it. While receiving the signal, the 603 on the remote camera fires itself, and sends a 2nd signal to its own hot shoe. The small converter on the hot shoe receives that 2nd signal and sends it through the cable plugged into the adapter. The cable is connected to the input of his remote camera and thereby fires his remote camera based on the 2nd signal through the cable.
Furthermore he uses the converter, because he did not have a cable to connect his remote camera directly to the (output) port of the 603 itself, which would have been more lean and fit for purpose. Also his receiving 603 could have been hanging next to the camera and did not needed to actually be in the hot shoe. That may make the setup of the linked photo difficult to grasp, too many extras for just his situation.
The problem you have, may be related to the use of a hot shoe. Just to be sure (to my understanding), the hot shoe can not be used to fire the camera. The triggering pin of the hot shoe connection is considered 'output' only and not input.
So there is connection needed from the 603 to the camera's remote trigger port using a cable. I assume you have that cable in place, but if not, that would be the culprit.
If you have the cable, maybe try to not mount the receiving 603 in the hot shoe of the remote camera and just let it hang around. Having the 603 in the hot shoe may have an effect on the camera, if the camera thinks a flash is mounted.
I do not think I answered your question, but by sharing my thoughts, it might help you analyze your situation with another view.
p.1 #4 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
Hey there - thank you so much for your post!
Your understanding of my situation seems correct (you're right - words are hard to use to convey what is happening). With that being said, let me try some more words to see if I can explain this a bit better and what I've tried!
I have the handheld camera. I'm trying to trigger a remote camera by simply shooting the handheld camera. No flashes are involved in this at all.
If i attach a 603 to a remote camera and attach a 2.5mm/n3 cable to the shutter port of that remote camera (in the front of my camera), I can trigger that remote camera's shutter by using an additional 603 and pressing the "test" button on that additional 603. The cable I'm using on the remote camera is:
Now, importantly, once I attach a similar cable to the handheld camera's 603 and attach that to the handheld camera's shutter port, the test button that previously fired the remote camera no longer fires the remote camera but fires the handheld camera (that it is now attached to via the cable above)..
Whether I place them in the hot shoe or not does not change what happen, unfortunately.
The post I linked to also mentions the 603's pc port (which i believe is a sync port). Maybe if I connect that to the PC port on the remote or even the handheld, it would provide a different connection.
I'm thinking this will not work but that one post gives me hope and it would be a shame to basically discard these 603s without at least trying to get it to work. I'm still open to what people think about the pocketwizards and which version I should get.
Thanks again for your post. I really appreciate it.
p.1 #5 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
I can tell you from my experience that using remotes is rewarding, when they work I have Pocket Wizards which I am about to upgrade. (PlusX) I got them super cheap and they work.... sometimes. Where I use them mostly, I have run into radio interference, and at the Fifa Club World Cup final there were so many remotes behind the goals that there were multiple radios running on the same channel, which was fun! There was no sign up sheet to make sure people weren't using the same frequencies. Hopefully for the World Cup they address this. Anyway, I would suggest you get 2 of the pocketwizard plus 3's.
One goes in the hot shoe of your camera to trigger the other camera by hitting the shutter button. The receiver goes in the hot shoe of the remote camera and connects via a cable. The hot shoe on the remote camera is basically just holding your pocket wizard, nothing more.
Here are couple of examples on when it went right. I hope that helps. I'm not super active on this forum so if you have any other questions just shoot me a PM.
p.1 #6 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
pulper11 wrote:
Hey there - thank you so much for your post!
Your understanding of my situation seems correct (you're right - words are hard to use to convey what is happening). With that being said, let me try some more words to see if I can explain this a bit better and what I've tried!
I have the handheld camera. I'm trying to trigger a remote camera by simply shooting the handheld camera. No flashes are involved in this at all.
If i attach a 603 to a remote camera and attach a 2.5mm/n3 cable to the shutter port of that remote camera (in the front of my camera), I can trigger that remote camera's shutter by using an additional 603 and pressing the "test" button on that additional 603. The cable I'm using on the remote camera is:
Now, importantly, once I attach a similar cable to the handheld camera's 603 and attach that to the handheld camera's shutter port, the test button that previously fired the remote camera no longer fires the remote camera but fires the handheld camera (that it is now attached to via the cable above)..
Whether I place them in the hot shoe or not does not change what happen, unfortunately.
The post I linked to also mentions the 603's pc port (which i believe is a sync port). Maybe if I connect that to the PC port on the remote or even the handheld, it would provide a different connection.
I'm thinking this will not work but that one post gives me hope and it would be a shame to basically discard these 603s without at least trying to get it to work. I'm still open to what people think about the pocketwizards and which version I should get.
Thanks again for your post. I really appreciate it. ...Show more →
To me it seems then that the remote camera is set up correctly.
The handheld, I'm not sure if the shutter port is input only or also output. For the 603 the problem seems to be that the 603 for the handheld camera no longer behaves as a trigger sending out a radio signal. Pushing the test button may close a circuit on the 603, resulting in a signal to the 2,5mm output port that will then transfer the signal through the cable to the handheld camera and fire it.
Several test come into mind:
- When you put the 603 in the hot shoe of the handheld camera, does the remote gets fired? (So no cable, just relying on the signal from the handheld camera through its hot shoe).
If your hot shoe is not working, because you use electronic shutter (ES) and your camera does not support 'flash' in ES, you might try a mechanical shutter mode to see if the triggering then works as expected.
- Does it make any difference if the 603 of the handheld camera is set to "TX" rather than "RTX" ? I can imagine that in RTX mode the plugged in 2,5mm plug may let the 603 think it is a receiver.
- If your camera has a PC-sync port, the type of port on the rear end of the 603, you could try to connect that to the 603 with a PC-sync cable. Here, again, the setting of "TX" or "TRX" might make a difference.
If non of the above get it to work somehow, I would say the system is just not compatible with your system. But the simple trigger signal from hot shoe or PC-sync port to the 603 should be straightforward as it is just a puls signal with not much data or intelligence in it.
p.1 #8 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
pulper11 wrote:
Thanks again for your help here, @jkaper1977.
I tried your suggestions but nothing changed. However, I do not have the PC-sync cable to try so I ordered that and should be able to try that soon.
@carl_g@ thank you for chiming in here. I was going to go with the plus-x version but given what you've written I should go with the Plus III.
Unfortunately, I'm finding those difficult to find. Even on ebay there's nothing. I'll keep checking while I give the 603s one more try.
Thanks!!!
OK, hope the extra cable helps, but wouldn't have a clue what else might help if that doesn't help. I have been doing some searches over time just in case I want to try a remote camera some time.The basics of it sound all so easy, but getting it done with a specific set of triggers seems daunting, at least for some of the cheaper triggers. I have some Godox flash triggers that I could set up to fire the remote during some testing, but could not get the remote to fire continuously using the handheld camera.
Also had a basic wireless remote, with just a handheld trigger/ timer, and with that I can fire the remote camera continuously.
So I know the problem with the remote camera somehow must be in the signal from the trigger on the handheld, either not repeating itself during a burst or limited by default (either camera side or trigger side). There just is not much documentation on those triggers for remote camera scenarios, while they were originally designed for flashes.
p.1 #9 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
I received the cable and have tried (I believe) every permutation. It does not change.
One thing that I notice now that I did not notice before is this:
if the handheld camera has the 603 in the hot shoe, and I press the shutter down on the handheld, the other 603 will light red every time so long as there is no cable connecting it to the shutter on the remote camera. It doesn't trigger the shutter on the remote (even if it is on the remote camera's hot shoe), but it does light red which shows communication.
Now that's great b/c i can see that firing the shutter on the handheld does cause the 603 on the handheld to communicate with the other 603. However, as soon as I attach a cable from the remote 603 to the remote shutter release, the red light no longer happens (and of course no trigger of the shutter on the remote).
I have two questions here:
1. for a canon R5ii - Other than the shutter release on the front of the camera, is there any other mechanical way to release the shutter with a cable attachment? The PC Flash Sync perhaps? Or something else?
2. It's very hard to obtain the pocketwizard plus iii or iv. KEH has them right now used but they are about $250 each. That's way too much for me. What took the place for the iii or iv that is equivalent and better than the plus x?
p.1 #10 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
It doesn't make sense. If the receiving unit receives the signal, it should be able to fire the camera with the appropriate cable connecting it to the R5II's remote port.
I mean, I did a multi-camera remote set up recently and it all worked as you would expect, except I used my old Pocket Wizard remotes I still have kicking around.
I recently added a bunch of Godox and Neewer radio remotes for strobe purposes, but they will also trigger cameras (though I have not tried that feature yet with my cameras). One thing I noticed with these, that is different than higher priced remotes, is that the 2.5mm port they use for the cable seems cheap. For example for the receiving unit to trigger my Elinchrom strobe via the cable, I had to really push the cable into the receiver. If it wasn't all the way in, it wouldn't fire the strobe.
Have you swapped the sending and receiving units in case the cable port of the receiving unit is bad? Have you tried another cable between the receiver and camera? These cables are cheaply made compared to the $$$ cables back when PW was the only game in town and it wouldn't surprise me if there are random duds. Lastly, have you tried a different remote camera, just in case your R5II's remote port isn't working (though if you use it with the cable release, it does).
If it still doesn't work, buy a sender/receiver set from Godox or Neewer. It may be more expensive but should work. Phottix might be another alternative. The Godox X1RC receiver unit comes with all the necessary cables to trigger either strobes or Canon cameras, including the N3 port. The Neewer equivalent is their QR 2.4G Wireless Flash Receiver, but you will need a Neewer transmitter for it. And I don't think it comes with the N3 compatible cable. Godox also has a cheaper sender/receiver set, the CT-16, which looks similar to the Yongnuo.
I didn't look at the DPR link, but it sounds like the guy put a hot shoe adapter on the hot shoe of the receiving Yongnuo unit, and from the adapter ran a cable to the camera. This could be an option if the cable port on the Yongnuo units is defective and not triggering your camera. But it's also one more link in the chain of connections that could go bad. If you still can't get the Yongnuo units to work, I'd just buy something from another brand and test it. If that also doesn't work, then it's a head scratcher.
p.1 #11 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
Additionally, you can remote trigger cameras with Canon's Speedlite radio triggering system. Canon's terminology for it is Linked Shooting.
The caveat is that you have to have the relatively costly Canon speedlites for this to work. And, if they're the 600EX-RT series, there hasn't been a firmware update provided for them to restore reliable performance of Canon's otherwise compromised/unreliable radio network. Only current units, such as the EL-1 and EL-5 have received firmware updates.
p.1 #12 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
pulper11 wrote:
@carl_g@ thank you for chiming in here. I was going to go with the plus-x version but given what you've written I should go with the Plus III.
Unfortunately, I'm finding those difficult to find. Even on ebay there's nothing. I'll keep checking while I give the 603s one more try.
Yes, getting quite hard to find. I snapped a couple up of Plus IIIs on Ebay just in case. I upgraded all of them to the E Release for the extra features, especially channels.
For Soccer specifically, the Plus IIIs have a nice feature for extended range that could be of assistance where you are more distant to goal than standard. Unfortunately their website is down current, so I cannot direct you to the manual pages I am thinking of. (The modes are RP for Repeater, LR for Long Range, and RxLR for Long Range (Receive only).)
When there are a lot of shooters, having 32 channels to pick from plus the A/B/C/D sub-channels means you may be able to find one that someone else isn't already using.
There is a post on Facebook by the account "Mark J. Terrill Photography" that has a photo of at least 12 remote cameras from this year's LA Dodgers playoff run. I see all PocketWizards -- Plus IIIs mostly, but one PlusX.
p.1 #13 · which pocket wizard or alternative for remote shooting
pulper11 wrote:
I received the cable and have tried (I believe) every permutation. It does not change.
One thing that I notice now that I did not notice before is this:
if the handheld camera has the 603 in the hot shoe, and I press the shutter down on the handheld, the other 603 will light red every time so long as there is no cable connecting it to the shutter on the remote camera. It doesn't trigger the shutter on the remote (even if it is on the remote camera's hot shoe), but it does light red which shows communication.
Now that's great b/c i can see that firing the shutter on the handheld does cause the 603 on the handheld to communicate with the other 603. However, as soon as I attach a cable from the remote 603 to the remote shutter release, the red light no longer happens (and of course no trigger of the shutter on the remote).
I have two questions here:
1. for a canon R5ii - Other than the shutter release on the front of the camera, is there any other mechanical way to release the shutter with a cable attachment? The PC Flash Sync perhaps? Or something else?
2. It's very hard to obtain the pocketwizard plus iii or iv. KEH has them right now used but they are about $250 each. That's way too much for me. What took the place for the iii or iv that is equivalent and better than the plus x?
A pity it does not work... And difficult to troubleshoot given the various behavior that does not make sense. Does the remote camera reacts to the test-button when the triggering 603 is mounted on the handheld? Or does the remote camera get triggered through the handheld, when the receiving 603 is not mounted on the remote, but just lies next to it while connected to the cameras remote port? And did you check on the switches for the modes (so you did not accidentally changed it to a trigger only mode).
I know to little of these things to really help out. To the best of my understanding, the "PC flash sync"-port is an output only. Once the shutter is pressed, a circuit is closed for that port, resulting in a triggering signal. I don't think putting a signal into the port would lead to a circuit closing in reverse. I tried to google it and could not find anything indicating that the PC-port could be used as an input for the camera.
Other ways to trigger a camera remote without cabling, would be bluetooth or wifi, but that is a completely different type of triggering and usage scenario.
Maybe some other cheap triggers will work, but beware of buying different triggers to discover they do not work for your scenario and cameras, because in the end, it may get more expensive than just going with pocketwizards.
I'm not into the pocketwizard product line to know what the relevant differences are between the III or IV's and the Plus X's are for your scenario, other than that the Plus X might has less channels available. For you scenario it seems the Plus X would be the straightforward proven solution if 10 channels would be sufficient for the environment you are shooting in. But they are quite more expensive than the 603 and similar triggers.
I have Pocket Wizards which I am about to upgrade. (PlusX) I got them super cheap and they work.... sometimes. Where I use them mostly, I have run into radio interference, and at the Fifa Club World Cup final there were so many remotes behind the goals that there were multiple radios running on the same channel, which was fun! There was no sign up sheet to make sure people weren't using the same frequencies. Hopefully for the World Cup they address this. Anyway, I would suggest you get 2 of the pocketwizard plus 3's.
