Sony A1 II: 2x SD/CFexpress Type A
Nikon Z8: 1x CFexpress Type B, 1x SD UHS-II
Z8 is taller than GFX100SII... and guess what camera it is compared with here:
840g. 149 x 106 x 75 mm
Nikon Z8: 144 x 118.5 x 83mm, 910g
I would not add GFX 100s ii to comparison. I opted for the more expensive GFX100 ii rather than 100s ii mainly because
of overheating issue even for general photography and not video.
Z8 has the same problem if I shoot 8K video but never had it for general photography.
I am sure Nikon can make smaller camera but smaller camera has its own problem as well. So in the end, it is all about compromise.
You could say that you don't care about video so you want smaller Z8. Unfortunately, Nikon decided to make bigger body to accommodate video shooter as well. No idea how well A1 ii handle 8K video or any overheating issue there though.
Immortal wrote:
For me "Dramatically smaller size" isn't A1 II size or weight, more in line with A7C series. If you expect something like A1 II size and weight than that's probably doable thou i think its gonna be callled Z7 III or Z6 IV not Z8 II. Like always, time will tell.
You are right. Dramatically smaller would be noticeably smaller than competition. Just make it 25% smaller then, so it can get close to competition in size; it is 2cm!!! taller than A1.2, and 1cm wider than A1.2...
suteetat wrote:
I would not add GFX 100s ii to comparison. I opted for the more expensive GFX100 ii rather than 100s ii mainly because
of overheating issue even for general photography and not video.
Z8 has the same problem if I shoot 8K video but never had it for general photography.
I am sure Nikon can make smaller camera but smaller camera has its own problem as well. So in the end, it is all about compromise.
You could say that you don't care about video so you want smaller Z8. Unfortunately, Nikon decided to make bigger body to accommodate video shooter as well. No idea how well A1 ii handle 8K video or any overheating issue there though. ...Show more →
I live in NJ and VA, and shoot in 90+ degree in the summer all the time. GFX50s2 overheated a few times, yep. Never happened with GFX100S2. And I could not care less about video and struggles of those who cheapened out on a proper video camera.
A1.2 shoots 8k according to specs. Don't know how it compares to Nikon offerings though.
Sony A1 II: 2x SD/CFexpress Type A
Nikon Z8: 1x CFexpress Type B, 1x SD UHS-II
Z8 is taller than GFX100SII... and guess what camera it is compared with here:
840g. 149 x 106 x 75 mm
Nikon Z8: 144 x 118.5 x 83mm, 910g
True but what is never included in the picture, but should, is the vertical grip.
If you shoot portrait for any duration of time a vertical grip (built-in or added) is a life saver in terms of ergonomics and severely reduces the risks of wrist injury.
bernardl wrote:
Even if he did he clearly changed his mind.
Thom is an incredible resource for Nikon users, almost a reason to shoot Nikon by himself. There are no equivalent to his books for Canon and Sony cameras. At least I couldnt find anything coming close.
He is also a very knowledgeable observer of the camera market. His opinions are spot on 95% of the time.
To me the most likely Z9II isnt listed in his options though. It would be btwn complete overhaul and modest and would include #1, #2, #3 and #5. Everything but a new imaging sensor. Similar to what Sony did with the a1 mkII.
But recent comments from Ricci hint strongly at the possibility of a Z9II with a brand new global shutter sensor and at a Z9 firmware update. Which would be aligned with Nikons philosophy to deliver paradigm shifts with their flagship bodies. Nobody has forgotten how innovative the Z9 was with its electronic shutter only.
Except that Thom Hogan actually publishes books for various Sony cameras equivalent to his Nikon books. How could you claim such admiration for him and not know that?
The lack of a mechanical shutter was a deletion not an innovation. Nikon has had to make continuous software updates to try and compensate for the lack of a mechanical shutter.
suteetat wrote:
While I don't mind more Z9 firmware update with new features, I think Expeed7 is the bottle neck for
many features that could be useful.
I think Z8/Z9 is stuck at 20 FPS RAW is mostly because of the processor rather than sensor.
It also might be bottleneck for no RAW pre capture .
I would not mind CFexpress 4.0 support since cards are now readily available.
While 20 FPS is perfectly fine for my use most of the time, once in a while 30 or 40 fps raw would be nice.
I am perfectly happy with 45mp but I suppose a bit more pixel for a bit more flexibility when I need to crop aggressively would be nice but I can settle for 45 mp. ...Show more →
The 20fps limitation on Nikon cameras is likely a liscensing issue not a hardware one. Hopefully that will be lifted now that Global shutter has raised the competitive bar.
1bwana1 wrote:
Except that Thom Hogan actually publishes books for various Sony cameras equivalent to his Nikon books.
The lack of a mechanical shutter was a deletion not an innovation. Nikon has had to make continuous software updates to try and compensate for the lack of a mechanical shutter.
At least you seem to agree that Thom is a great author?
Good point yes, he has indeed started publishing Sony books as well. But the coverage is a lot less comprehensive than for Nikon bodies wouldn't you agree?
He currently has 10 Nikon books including 8 guides (1,000 pages super detailed) and only 3 Sony books in the configure series (much less detailed with only 300~400 pages). That is what I meant Steve. The Sony books are ok, but I find them a lot less impressive than his full guides that are as good as bibles. Have you ever read his books for Nikon bodies? If yes you should know the difference. If no why bother commenting?
So I keep thinking that the value he delivers to Nikon users is way higher than for Sony users. Around 5 times higher is we measure it by number of pages. And that is just with mirrorless, he also published tens of thousands of pages for Nikon DSLRs.
Could you list up those firmware updates please? I can't remember any matching your description. Perhaps one enabling fractional shutter speed? I can't remember whether that was already available at launch.
As an actual owner of the camera, I find the increased robustness, the available of a dedicated robust sensor shield, the absence of shutter type selection,... to be valuable aspects resulting from what I see as an innovation (a deletion can be an innovation, can't it?). I can't remember how many images I missed with my GFX-100II due to having kept the camera in e-shutter mode. Never had a dust spot on any of the my Z9 images and never had to clean the sensor in 4 years. Sure enough Sony equipped the a9III with a shield as well.
Anyways, as you understood this was not the main point of my post.
bernardl wrote:
At least you seem to agree that Thom is a great author?
Good point yes, he has indeed started publishing Sony books as well. But the coverage is a lot less comprehensive than for Nikon bodies wouldn't you agree?
He currently has 10 Nikon books including 8 guides (1,000 pages super detailed) and only 3 Sony books in the configure series (much less detailed with only 300~400 pages). That is what I meant Steve. The Sony books are ok, but I find them a lot less impressive than his full guides that are as good as bibles. Have you ever read his books for Nikon bodies? If yes you should know the difference. If no why bother commenting?
So I keep thinking that the value he delivers to Nikon users is way higher than for Sony users. Around 5 times higher is we measure it by number of pages.
Could you list up those firmware updates please? I can't remember any matching your description. Perhaps one enabling fractional shutter speed? I can't remember whether that was already available at launch.
As an actual owner of the camera, I find the increased robustness, the available of a dedicated robust sensor shield, the absence of shutter type selection,... to be valuable aspects resulting from what I see as an innovation (a deletion can be an innovation, can't it?). I can't remember how many images I missed with my GFX-100II due to having kept the camera in e-shutter mode. Never had a dust spot on any of the my Z9 images and never had to clean the sensor in 4 years. Sure enough Sony equipped the a9III with a shield as well.
Anyways, as you understood this was not the main point of my post.
In some bizarre twist of fate I find myself cleaning z8 sensor quite often. I don't understand it. I never cleaned sensors on mirrorless cameras - countless Oly, 3 different GFX and a bunch of Fuji X cameras, except when I once changed lenses in the air full of pollen. That was super nasty and on the first day of vacation... Then comes z8 and suddenly I have to clean camera every few shoots. I use sensor shield, and I now switch lenses only when camera is off. It does not help. But I hear it works fine for everybody else, so I am puzzled why this is happening to me.
bernardl wrote:
So I keep thinking that the value he delivers to Nikon users is way higher than for Sony users.
I wish it was the other way around! The Sony's own manuals are comically useless. I'm convinced that nobody on the Internet understands their aperture drive modes (standard vs focus?) or focus priority modes (WTF does "balanced" do? What/how does it balance?). We need someone like Thom with industry connections to Sony product people.
On the other hand, the Nikon's manuals always had the information (and explanation) I needed, so I never felt the need to buy a book.
bernardl wrote:
True but what is never included in the picture, but should, is the vertical grip.
If you shoot portrait for any duration of time a vertical grip (built-in or added) is a life saver in terms of ergonomics and severely reduces the risks of wrist injury.
Cheers,
Bernard
True. I wonder if there are stats on usage of portrait vs landscape orientation. Funny part is that I shoot square quite often. And when I photograph not humans I hold camera horizontally, but when I photograph people I automatically hold camera in portrait orientation and cannot do it any other way. I also bought a whole bunch of vertical grips in the past, but never got used to them.
olegkin wrote:
In some bizarre twist of fate I find myself cleaning z8 sensor quite often. I don't understand it. I never cleaned sensors on mirrorless cameras - countless Oly, 3 different GFX and a bunch of Fuji X cameras, except when I once changed lenses in the air full of pollen. That was super nasty and on the first day of vacation... Then comes z8 and suddenly I have to clean camera every few shoots. I use sensor shield, and I now switch lenses only when camera is off. It does not help. But I hear it works fine for everybody else, so I am puzzled why this is happening to me....Show more →
That's indeed a bit surprising. Could it be related to the lenses you are using?
bernardl wrote:
At least you seem to agree that Thom is a great author?
Good point yes, he has indeed started publishing Sony books as well. But the coverage is a lot less comprehensive than for Nikon bodies wouldn't you agree?
He currently has 10 Nikon books including 8 guides (1,000 pages super detailed) and only 3 Sony books in the configure series (much less detailed with only 300~400 pages). That is what I meant Steve. The Sony books are ok, but I find them a lot less impressive than his full guides that are as good as bibles. Have you ever read his books for Nikon bodies? If yes you should know the difference. If no why bother commenting?
So I keep thinking that the value he delivers to Nikon users is way higher than for Sony users. Around 5 times higher is we measure it by number of pages. And that is just with mirrorless, he also published tens of thousands of pages for Nikon DSLRs.
Could you list up those firmware updates please? I can't remember any matching your description. Perhaps one enabling fractional shutter speed? I can't remember whether that was already available at launch.
As an actual owner of the camera, I find the increased robustness, the available of a dedicated robust sensor shield, the absence of shutter type selection,... to be valuable aspects resulting from what I see as an innovation (a deletion can be an innovation, can't it?). I can't remember how many images I missed with my GFX-100II due to having kept the camera in e-shutter mode. Never had a dust spot on any of the my Z9 images and never had to clean the sensor in 4 years. Sure enough Sony equipped the a9III with a shield as well.
Anyways, as you understood this was not the main point of my post.
I agree Thom Hogan writes excellent camera guides for both Nikon and Sony. He also writes interesting commentary on his various sites.
Nikon issued many updates due to the lack of mechanical shutter. As just another example to the one you mentioned there were a number related to the need to sync the speed to various light frequencies to avoid banding. Look them up
Nikon was not the first to use a shutter to cover the sensor. Many cameras do that. In fact every digital Leica M camera ever made did that decades before the Z9. Only they never called a feature. Nikon did innovate calling that a feature instead of a deletion.
Sure... Nikon and Sony... just a ratio of 10 in currently available content, or 30 if we factor in older one.
Yes, the one I mentioned is the one related to the need to sync the speed to various light frequencies (by enabling the use of fractional shutter speeds), I am still not aware of any other ones, sorry.
In my world 10 is not equal to 1 and 1 is not that many either... but there is nothing like discussing in good faith with you.
And, to conclude, I confess that Nikon is not innovative at all. Sony wins. The Z9II will be another boring body. Sony wins. Leica also. Let me know if you want me to add some other equipement of yours to the list.
I can definitely think of some things that would get me to plonk down the money. Top of that list is AF improvements.
1) Get the camera to pick up subjects earlier (this is a strength of the a1ii) and be stickier. Similarly, get the tracking box to be stickier and less jumpy.
2) Get that FPS to 30 fps in RAW. This lets you make short clips from bursts. In an era of reels, this is actually useful.
3) That ZR bigger brighter screen is so enticing. Bring it to a stills camera.
4) Get the AWB working a little better. There is room for improvement there.
5) An improved EVF
6) Open Gate and De-Squeeze
CF4.0 would be ok, I guess, but I shoot a lot of bursts, and never hit the buffer on a z8/z9 with the right cards.
Sony A1 II: 2x SD/CFexpress Type A
Nikon Z8: 1x CFexpress Type B, 1x SD UHS-II
Z8 is taller than GFX100SII... and guess what camera it is compared with here:
840g. 149 x 106 x 75 mm
Nikon Z8: 144 x 118.5 x 83mm, 910g
You forgot an important part of your comparison -
Sony A1 II - $6,998
Nikon Z8 - $3,796
BTW - The number of shots is bogus in real life usage! A couple of days ago I shot power boat races and walked away with over 500 images (two hours of shooting in the sun). The battery still had about 50% left. I was primarily using the viewfinder for shooting and the rear screen for occasional review.
olegkin wrote:
Then comes z8 and suddenly I have to clean camera every few shoots. I use sensor shield, and I now switch lenses only when camera is off. It does not help. But I hear it works fine for everybody else, so I am puzzled why this is happening to me.
A few years ago one of my film cameras started to leave hair-like marks on the negatives. I opened it up and discovered a couple of tiny hairs/fibers stuck on the edge of the film gate. I removed them with a q-tip, but about a month later I see the same marks again. I open the camera and discover the same fibers, so I clean them again. And you've guessed it: a few months later they come back.
Turns out, the source of contamination was inside the camera itself. Eventually I discovered a sizeable chunk of felt, which probably separated from an aging film cartridge, stuck around the shutter assembly. Periodically it would shed a fiber or two that would end up sticking to the film gate and dropping a shadow on film.
Now I'm thinking that the same thing can happen with a digital camera: something got inside (and is still there) and it periodically sheds small particles that end up on the sensor.
This is a long shot, for course, but doesn't hurt to check. Good luck!
A higher resolution EVF would tempt me towards a Z9ii. I love my Z9, and I have no real qualms with it in day to day use, but shooting the GFX100ii for a bit showed me how much nicer a 9.44 million dot EVF is compared to the 3.69 million dot one in the Z9. Also a rear display that can fully articulate wouldn't be horrible, bonus if it was a bit larger.
I'm working a job with the Z9 rigged up high off the ground, and the ENEL18D battery (I have the wasabi and OEM ones) still had a full bar left after a full 8-9 hour day. On a typical day, I'd usually go through 2.5-3 ENEL15 batteries with the Z8, and prefer how the Z9 feels vs a gripped Z8. Plus the light up buttons on the Z9 are so convenient when you need them.
story_teller wrote:
You forgot an important part of your comparison -
Sony A1 II - $6,998
Nikon Z8 - $3,796
BTW - The number of shots is bogus in real life usage! A couple of days ago I shot power boat races and walked away with over 500 images (two hours of shooting in the sun). The battery still had about 50% left. I was primarily using the viewfinder for shooting and the rear screen for occasional review.
As long as they are tested with the same standard, number does not really matter there. I get several thousands shots from a single battery when I shoot dance recitals with Z8 (and the same applies to OM1 btw).
Indeed from a hardware perspective the EVF is the most dated part of the Z9. They also need to rework the way the EVF data feed works so that magnifying/punching in isnt so laggy.
Id love a rear screen that could rival the X2D. Bright, big, highly color accurate.
sungphoto wrote:
A higher resolution EVF would tempt me towards a Z9ii. I love my Z9, and I have no real qualms with it in day to day use, but shooting the GFX100ii for a bit showed me how much nicer a 9.44 million dot EVF is compared to the 3.69 million dot one in the Z9. Also a rear display that can fully articulate wouldn't be horrible, bonus if it was a bit larger.
I'm working a job with the Z9 rigged up high off the ground, and the ENEL18D battery (I have the wasabi and OEM ones) still had a full bar left after a full 8-9 hour day. On a typical day, I'd usually go through 2.5-3 ENEL15 batteries with the Z8, and prefer how the Z9 feels vs a gripped Z8. Plus the light up buttons on the Z9 are so convenient when you need them....Show more →
I have worked outdoor college graduations during the summer. The Nikon cameras really do not over heat. Do not ask me why I can't say the same about any Fuji camera though RoamingScott wrote:
This thread is hilarious. Better thermals? Bro I live in the asshole of Texas and I would not be able to get my Z9 to overheat in the summer if I tried.
