p.1 #1 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
Also, when you shoot film, what cameras and film are you using and how do your photographic goals and end product differ with film vs your Monochrom? What differences exist in environment, subject, lighting and end product determine your choice of capture?
p.1 #2 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
Yes, I do - in parallel. I answer the questions in order:
How do your photographic goals and end product differ with film vs your Monochrom?
Main reason for me to get a used Leica MM 246 was two years ago to avoid travelling with B&W film to Europe. At the time I found it difficult to purchase my preferred kind of B&W film in photo stores in Germany - later the new airport scanners became an additional culprit for travelling with film stuff, and I am not gonna wait and ask for hand screening etc. The digital monochrome approach was mainly a reason to avoid travel related obstacles in my passion to take B&W photos. Second benefit - I enjoy infrared photography and used until then a fully converted Canon 5D MkII to do this. The MM 246 has both the capability to take great monochrome photos and at the same time can do nicely handheld IR photos with R72 filter and a bit higher ISO - no conversion or two cameras (one for IR) needed! With film I need to use a specific IR film and can't switch between monochrome and IR after one film is completed. Needless to say that IR films are not the best for travelling with either.
What differences exist in environment, subject, lighting and end product determine your choice of capture
What can I get with B&W film what no digital image gives me? It is the halo, the light burst around subjects when the light comes from behind. On film the light bends uniquely around dark surfaces and creates a halo. I love this kind of stuff. With direct ight sources, another kind of halo is created on film which has a unique sunstar pattern - a circle more towards the center between the sunstar lines for example. Digital can't do this. Some might like the grainy look of B&W film photos different from digital - I have never been a fan of grainy looking photos, so this advantage is negligible for me.
Digital has the edge when it comes to better dynamic range in high contrast situation. Film tends to create silhouettes, or shadows become more grainy looking with details in underexposed high contrast areas. Digital and especially digital monochrome can bring out contrast and shadow details nicely. Digital monochrome creates a monochrome DNG file which can be processed better than having a color DNG converted first coming from a regular digital camera.
p.1 #3 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
No. I’ve already shot a million frames of film. I have absolutely zero desire to shoot more. I’ve processed and printed at a commercial level and had, for over a decade, a commercial level darkroom at home that did not only b&w but also Cibachromes. I’m done.
That said I do understand the attraction to film. For me it is how tactile and engaging the process is. Most modern cameras are boring. I’d like to see a digital camera like the Epson RD-1 again. Leica is the closest to that tactile vibe I want when I shoot.
I have an M11-M and Q2M. I’d actually really like. D variant of the M11-M or a Q3-43M. When I shot film it was normal to have a colour camera over one shoulder and one b&w over the other. I do that with the M’s. I like how it makes me think about tones differently from colour.
p.1 #4 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
Q2M user here.
I shoot film mostly for artsy fartsy work.
Digital is for the following situations:
- AF is required
- Harsh conditions (freezing temperatures, sand, ...) that could destroy a film camera
- A risk of x-rays (airport scanners)
- I foresee wanting to shoot many pictures
- Macro
p.1 #5 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
I have often thought about getting a Leica Mono body but what stops me are these reasons.
-It just seems ridiculous to not use my M4P with B&W film. I can get a truly grainless film, I can use a super grainy film. The super high ISO thing does not seem practical since I'm most often using an ND on a Leica anyway. There is almost nothing a TMax variant can't do.
-On that point, your print making options from B&W digital images aren't ideal. It's very hard now to configure a new Piezography printer. I had to give up on the process after repeated equipment failures. Regular pigment printers are great but it's not really the same. Otherwise you're using a lab to laser expose silver paper but...I could optically print a film image or scan and laser so...no advantage.
-The cost is just insane. On this point, I wish other companies would make mono cameras. Why is there no Mono GR? No mono X100? These seem like obvious choices to me, and I'd probably get one.
p.1 #6 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
retrofocus wrote:
Yes, I do - in parallel. I answer the questions in order:
How do your photographic goals and end product differ with film vs your Monochrom?
What differences exist in environment, subject, lighting and end product determine your choice of capture
The two (film and monochrom or even color digital converted) are completely different and non-comparable. Just like two different b&w films, take Tri-x vs. Plus-x, render completely differently. Film and digital won't render the same so you have to pick one or use two and know that Plus-x won't look like Tri-x ever. With digital at least you can have Monochrom images and Q3 b&w images look the same (99%) with post processing. You can never make the grain structure and look of two different b&w films look the same. They are structurally different (films) and will push or pull differently as well. For me, the key is to just use what works for you. In the film days (yes they're effectively gone since most b&w films that were aren't) it was easier to have multiple film stock for different purposes than 4 different cameras to select from - even some of us do. I do but it's not for different b&w rendering as I am able to get a look I want from different digital b&w captures.
p.1 #7 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
DenverSteve wrote:
The two (film and monochrom or even color digital converted) are completely different and non-comparable. Just like two different b&w films, take Tri-x vs. Plus-x, render completely differently. Film and digital won't render the same so you have to pick one or use two and know that Plus-x won't look like Tri-x ever. With digital at least you can have Monochrom images and Q3 b&w images look the same (99%) with post processing. You can never make the grain structure and look of two different b&w films look the same. They are structurally different (films) and will push or pull differently as well. For me, the key is to just use what works for you. In the film days (yes they're effectively gone since most b&w films that were aren't) it was easier to have multiple film stock for different purposes than 4 different cameras to select from - even some of us do. I do but it's not for different b&w rendering as I am able to get a look I want from different digital b&w captures. ...Show more →
Agreed that digital and film are two different media and will always be. No question about it! But if I make prints from digitized B&W film photos and photos coming from my M 246 camera they are indistinguishable for the most part. Yes, I can crank out a bit more making a "filmy" look on silver gelatin paper in my darkroom, but even then most viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a digital and film based photo print. I once did exactly this during an exhibit where I had several B&W photos - half of them I made in my darkroom from film negatives, the other half came from my Canon Pro-100 inkjet printer. I put a lot more effort in making the darkroom prints look nearly perfect. In the end not even one visitor or viewer saw a difference between them. This has changed my mind a bit, and since I focus selectively in my darkroom printing work and leave the majority for digital printing.
p.1 #8 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
While digital B&W (ie Leica Monochrom) and analog B&W (ie film) are not the same, yes, the flexibility afforded with the DNGs is immense. I don't think you can 100% mimic the "film look", but you can get close enough that the differences don't matter as much, and often you can come up with something even "better" (unique).
I owned a M9M for a while back in the day, and once I got comfortable with it, I shot less and less with my film Leica. Not being ready to give up on film, I sold the Monochrom.
If I were to buy a Monochrom camera now, I think that would be the end of my film shooting - as much as I enjoy the film shooting process, overall I find today's digital sensors to be amazing and the workflow allows me to get closer to what I want to see.
p.1 #9 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
retrofocus wrote: DenverSteve wrote:
Agreed. I have the same discussion on performance as a musician. No one in the audience cares what guitar is being used. They're just listening to the music.
p.1 #10 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
speedgraphic wrote:
I have often thought about getting a Leica Mono body but what stops me are these reasons.
-It just seems ridiculous to not use my M4P with B&W film. I can get a truly grainless film, I can use a super grainy film. The super high ISO thing does not seem practical since I'm most often using an ND on a Leica anyway. There is almost nothing a TMax variant can't do.
-On that point, your print making options from B&W digital images aren't ideal. It's very hard now to configure a new Piezography printer. I had to give up on the process after repeated equipment failures. Regular pigment printers are great but it's not really the same. Otherwise you're using a lab to laser expose silver paper but...I could optically print a film image or scan and laser so...no advantage.
-The cost is just insane. On this point, I wish other companies would make mono cameras. Why is there no Mono GR? No mono X100? These seem like obvious choices to me, and I'd probably get one....Show more →
FIrst cost.. Some might consider typ 246 as an entry point into digital monochrom. They are priced a good bit less than the Leica M6 with MP upgrades available new.
That said, for someone that shoots B&W film and has a wet darkroom, there really isn’t a superior workflow. Of course, the editing possibilities in the digital realm are greater and less time consuming than with the all analog process.
p.1 #11 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
bwcolor wrote:
FIrst cost.. Some might consider typ 246 as an entry point into digital monochrom. They are priced a good bit less than the Leica M6 with MP upgrades available new.
That said, for someone that shoots B&W film and has a wet darkroom, there really isn’t a superior workflow. Of course, the editing possibilities in the digital realm are greater and less time consuming than with the all analog process.
Discussed already in another thread, but if you don't want to take B&W photos of bats in a dark cave where you might need 6-figured ISO numbers, the M 246 is perfectly fine.
p.1 #12 · Do Leica Monochrom Users Also Shoot B&W Film?
Not an M shooter (I had the CFA scraped out of a Sony a7rII), but, yes, I do still occasionally shoot mono film. Specifically Delta 3200, because I have a hard time replicating that thick grain look in digital. I'll load up a roll of that when I'm deep in a bout of insomnia and go find things to shoot.
