Normally, for my sports photography, I am using single point AF and don't bother much with the different Cases since I follow in my viewfinder with my single point AF. However, I am trying to improve my indoor volleyball shooting.
My usual position is on the side of the court around the middle. But it's a tough location due to the physical constraints of the gym, so I might try and shoot the long way, from the opposing team's side of the court....through the net.
The net adds an obvious obstacle because, when I am tracking a player's face on the opposite of the court, I don't want to focus on the net instead. So I am thinking to use something like Case 2 with the first option (forgot the name right now) set to Locked On. The next step in my thought process is that this might not work with Single Point AF, and that I should be using it with something like Zone AF or something along those lines.....because if I track with Single Point AF, then the focus will be on wherever the single point is on, so not exactly locked on to the subject if the net gets in the way.
In my brain, I am thinking to expand my AF points w/ Locked On tracking....focus on the subject behind the net....and hope that the camera's AF doesn't lock onto the net by accident. Does that sound like an accurate way this should be done?
Volleyball is tough sport to shoot since the ball/action moves all around the court so quickly and lots of obstacles/people in the way.
I'm not familiar with the 1DX settings, but on mirrorless, I set my focus zone in the top third of of the frame, so I'm framed above the net, and with face detection, it will work well. I used the expand area AF (single point with the surrounding 'helping' boxes in continuous back button focusing).
One area you may want to try is ABOVE the court. You can get good subject isolation and less distracting elements, and it's a bit easier to follow the action. You need a longer lens to do it, but it's worth trying for a set or two
SkippyW wrote:
Volleyball is tough sport to shoot since the ball/action moves all around the court so quickly and lots of obstacles/people in the way.
I'm not familiar with the 1DX settings, but on mirrorless, I set my focus zone in the top third of of the frame, so I'm framed above the net, and with face detection, it will work well. I used the expand area AF (single point with the surrounding 'helping' boxes in continuous back button focusing).
One area you may want to try is ABOVE the court. You can get good subject isolation and less distracting elements, and it's a bit easier to follow the action. You need a longer lens to do it, but it's worth trying for a set or two...Show more →
I'll try using some sort of expanded AF point selection and see how it works with Case 2, Locked On. As far as viewpoints, unfortunately, it's an extremely small gym so there is actually no overhead section. There are two sidelines, with one sideline totally taken up by the team benches and the other sideline taken up by three rows of bleachers that are situated right next to the court. One end of the court has enough space for me to wander, so that's where I will go. The other end of the court has ZERO space for me to wander without running into the server lol.
It's the same situation when I shoot basketball there. I can only really take pictures on the end of the court where there's space, but at least there's no net in the way with basketball.
With the 1DXII I mostly used single point with expansion (the four additional points around the central one). And Case 4, but I mostly shot field and arena sports. And I would slightly tweak the lock-on parameters depending on the sport. Sometimes I'd want it to hold focus on someone longer and ignore momentary cross-traffic interference. Other times I'd want it to immediately refocus on something else. The latter not necessarily because I'd want to continue following that subject but because even with reducing the AF's sensitivity to switch to a new subject, if the cross-traffic interference is long enough, it still will. So there were times I'd accept that it would lose the intended subject and by setting it to immediately acquire the new subject, it will also reacquire the previous subject faster once no longer blocked.
I have not recently shot volleyball but I preferred shooting from opposite the net if I could get a higher vantage point to shoot over it for the blocks and spikes. You also have a narrower arc of movement to cover the full court opposite the net. You also get all/most of the players on the opposite court team looking in your direction. And if you can't get a higher vantage point, there might still be some good action shooting through the near team, though you will deal with them blocking your shots. When you're at the side of the court, you have a lot more side to side movement of the camera to follow the action. But each position offers certain advantages and disadvantages.
I hate to bring this up yet again, but the nature of DSLR AF is to want to focus on the closest reliable target. And when shooting through the net, which is a strong horizontal and vertical pattern that AF loves, it's going to be tough to keep focus on the intended subject. Mirrorless on the other hand.... using subject/face/eye detection can work around this. But I don't know first-hand how reliably or consistently it does with volleyball through the net.
Just finished shooting a few games and it was TOUGH. I did it a few years ago and don't remember it being this difficult. I primarily shot with the 70-200 f/2.8. Sometimes wide open. Sometimes at f/4.
I stood at the side mostly, which meant most of my shots were of serves and digs. Dig shots were difficult because it required knowing a split second beforehand which player was going to attempt the dig. Takes a bit of practice and quick fingers to focus and shoot.
Side positioning meant net action was tough, but not impossible. I tried the opposite side of the court and that didn't go too well. As expected, I kept getting the net. So I went back to the side.
Higher vantage point would be super but there is none at this gym. The highest point I could get would probably not be much higher than the net.
I need to go home and take a look at these pictures, and brace for alot of deleting lol
The end of the court where you have a bit of space to wander, is there room to put a ladder up against the wall and shoot from the top of it?
In any case, it's going to be a matter of shooting as many games as possible to refine your capabilities, get to know how the team(s) plays and hopefully better anticipate where the action will be. Volleyball was always a low percentage sport, at least for me. Shoot a ton and even if you get 5% acceptable images, you'll have some selection. When I shoot football, my edit is never more than 20% and that would be a *very* loose edit. To really cut it down to the best images, it's going to be 1-2%.
My first volleyball attempts were back in HS. I'd shoot 5-10 rolls and would be lucky to get 10-20 good action shots. That was also the days of manual focusing and 5fps motor drives. The technology we have now helps a ton, but as you've rediscovered, the human element remains a significant (potentially limiting) factor.
SkippyW wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 1DX settings, but on mirrorless, I set my focus zone in the top third of of the frame, so I'm framed above the net, and with face detection, it will work well. I used the expand area AF (single point with the surrounding 'helping' boxes in
One differentiator is that the OP didn't specify what level the volleyball they are shooting is. Youth, high school, college (what level of college). The height above the net can really vary between the levels.
If's a small gym, I am thinking it's no higher than a D3 college/university. (Assuming the OP's statement about being in the NYC area is correct that is; though Columbia's volleyball gym seems somewhat limited in size.)
At any rate, with 1Dx and 1Dx mk II, I often used the center point with expansion (four- or eight-point) for volleyball. I have found that with mirrorless, my R3 sticks to the net too well, but with my 1Dx series bodies, they seem to see through the net to the players better.
Here are some SOOC photos (other than horizon straightening) from a D3 college volleyball match from the floor facing the net with the 1Dx mk II and an EF 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II and using the center point as the focus point. No Zone focus.
Canon EOS-1D X Mark IIEF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens200mmf/2.81/1600s6400 ISO0.0 EV
Canon EOS-1D X Mark IIEF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens200mmf/2.81/1600s6400 ISO0.0 EV
Canon EOS-1D X Mark IIEF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens200mmf/2.81/1600s6400 ISO0.0 EV
Caleb Williams wrote:
At any rate, with 1Dx and 1Dx mk II, I often used the center point with expansion (four- or eight-point) for volleyball. I have found that with mirrorless, my R3 sticks to the net too well, but with my 1Dx series bodies, they seem to see through the net to the players better.
That's interesting. Do you use subject/face/eye detection with the R3 and it still prefers to focus on the net?
rscheffler wrote:
That's interesting. Do you use subject/face/eye detection with the R3 and it still prefers to focus on the net?
It sure seems to (when the faces aren't above the net).
Here's some examples:
Here is one example where Subject Tracking never grabbed the person's head or eye (albeit a very brief sequence of 6 frames at H+). (I downloaded DPP just to see the focus points.) (R3 + 300 2.8 IS v1)
In the second sequence, the subject started in focus, but despite subject tracking, the focus moves to the net. (R3 + 300 2.8 IS v1)
In this sequence, the focus is locked tight on the Subject the focus drifts to the net in the frames marked with X. (R3 + 300 2.8 IS v1)
Here again, the subject tracking sees the person, but focuses on the net. Finally, the player in the foreground grabs focus. (R3 + 300 2.8 IS v1)
WIth no net, the subject tracking works wonderfully as it normally does. (R3 + 300 2.8 IS v1)
