schlotz wrote:
Didn't I read somewhere that Adobe LR has again turned off using the Neural Engine capability? Their Denoise AI on my Sony A1 files usually takes 30 sec, on my M1 Max MBP, argh!!! Whatever the reason, one would think that taking full advantage of the latest M5 capabilities ought to significantly improve Denoise processing time. At this point I'm waiting for the M5 Max in spring and hopefully Adobe getting their Denoise aligned to fully work with it. 🤞
Yes, it wasn't long after they turned it on. A colour problem as I recall but as my Mac (also an M1 Max MBP) is only used for travel (I use Windows on my desktop) I never saw it.
I don't know how much the M5 update will bring, as I posted elsewhere (https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1916403/3#16898377) AI Denoise is driven up to now purely by GPU cores and influenced to a lesser extant by the process refresh (M1-M2-M3 etc). The new Neural Accelerator embedded in the GPU cores may change that. I hope Art (ArtIsRight) will buy one and test it. I will ping him to find out.
I'm wondering whether to upgrade my MBP. I had planned on waiting for the M6 which will go from a 3nm node to 2nm, a pretty big shrink. Given it's a travel laptop it's only a nice to have ...
I'm right there with ya waiting on the M6. When not in the field, my MBP is clamshelled to a Studio Display for desktop use. So I'm really interested in Art's response and hopeful review of the M5 although it would be the MAX version I would consider.
mcbroomf wrote:
Yes, it wasn't long after they turned it on. A colour problem as I recall but as my Mac (also an M1 Max MBP) is only used for travel (I use Windows on my desktop) I never saw it.
It's going to be interesting to see how neural accelerators play out. Sounds like a good number of AI tools are sticking to GPU processing for now. In theory, neural accelerators should offer a nice performance to power usage ratio, but compatibility between diffrent accelerators seams to be a bottle neck.
Out of curiosity, have you found a good way to share a LR catalog between Windows and Mac? I was thinking of using a exFAT formatted drive for the catalog and photos, but it sounds like some people are having issues sharing a exFAT drive between Windows and Mac, were eventually the write performance of the drive gets severely impacted.
I only run a Mac catalog temporarily when I'm travelling. Max has been 7 weeks and is more typically 2-4. Many thousands of images either case though. I do use an ex-fat external SSD on the Mac but start a new catalog for each trip and just import it into my main Windows catalog to integrate them when I return. My windows drives are NTFS. I don't travel with my main catalog. I've not seen a slow down on the Mac when travelling. Mine is an "old" M1 Max/64GB 14" MBP, so not slow but pretty GPU bound these days, hence the desire for an upgrade but very much a nice to have for the moment, so on a backburner.
A little update incase anyone is in a similar situation to me, I decided to take advantage of the sales this week.
On the Topaz Front I ended up getting offered a subscription to Topaz Studio for about 165 a year, since I was an existing customer. Since it's cheaper than just subscribing to Topaz Photo alone I decided to give it a try, for a year. I need to try a larger variety of photo, but my initial impression is Topaz Photo seams better then Topaz Photo AI 3🤞I will eventually give an update on this, once I feel I have worked on enough photos to form a good opinion on it.
On the Mac side, B&H has sales going on this week on Macs and I decided to pick up an 16 inch M4 Max. Currently the M5 Pro and M5 Max seam at least a few months out to getting in customers hands. Then the end end of next year / beginning of 2027 the M6 chips should be coming which should be the first 2nm and come with a nice performance jump. The M6 Mac Book Pros are also rumored to be coming with OLED displays. So I decided enough waiting, winter is when I usually do the most editing, and if by 2027 the M6 is really that big of a jump over then M4 I can reevaluate my needs then. So far the M4 Max has been a massive improvement over my 2019 Intel Mac Book Pro. The computer is definitely much faster and the hardware like the screen and speakers are noticeably nicer. So far the only thing that seamed like it pushed the hardware at all was AI Noise reduction and even then it was almost silent. I do miss the Touch Bar, but I am sure after a few weeks I will get used to not having it.
It's going to be interesting to see what the computing landscape ends up looking like by the end of 2027. Apple has already caught up / exceeded Intel and AMD on the CPU side and is closing in on Nvidia for certain GPU tasks. By 2027 The next gen Intel and Nvidia chips should be out and lining up with the M6 chips. Now we just need memory prices to stop rising 😂
DWOfPaul wrote:
A little update incase anyone is in a similar situation to me, I decided to take advantage of the sales this week.
On the Topaz Front I ended up getting offered a subscription to Topaz Studio for about 165 a year, since I was an existing customer. Since it's cheaper than just subscribing to Topaz Photo alone I decided to give it a try, for a year. I need to try a larger variety of photo, but my initial impression is Topaz Photo seams better then Topaz Photo AI 3🤞I will eventually give an update on this, once I feel I have worked on enough photos to form a good opinion on it.
On the Mac side, B&H has sales going on this week on Macs and I decided to pick up an 16 inch M4 Max. Currently the M5 Pro and M5 Max seam at least a few months out to getting in customers hands. Then the end end of next year / beginning of 2027 the M6 chips should be coming which should be the first 2nm and come with a nice performance jump. The M6 Mac Book Pros are also rumored to be coming with OLED displays. So I decided enough waiting, winter is when I usually do the most editing, and if by 2027 the M6 is really that big of a jump over then M4 I can reevaluate my needs then. So far the M4 Max has been a massive improvement over my 2019 Intel Mac Book Pro. The computer is definitely much faster and the hardware like the screen and speakers are noticeably nicer. So far the only thing that seamed like it pushed the hardware at all was AI Noise reduction and even then it was almost silent. I do miss the Touch Bar, but I am sure after a few weeks I will get used to not having it.
It's going to be interesting to see what the computing landscape ends up looking like by the end of 2027. Apple has already caught up / exceeded Intel and AMD on the CPU side and is closing in on Nvidia for certain GPU tasks. By 2027 The next gen Intel and Nvidia chips should be out and lining up with the M6 chips. Now we just need memory prices to stop rising 😂...Show more →
Incidentally anyone can get the $165 per year deal of Topaz Studio Subscription special (Video and Photo). You don't need to be an existing customer. It's also a black Friday thing. It includes all their software. I decided to go for it too since Topaz Studio AI is end of life.
I have been using their software, including Photo AI, for years. If they asked up to US$100, I might have considered paying, simply out of generosity, as a donation of a sort, to keep them going. But no more than that. What they are asking is short of ridiculous for what they offer.
netexpress wrote:
Incidentally anyone can get the $165 per year deal of Topaz Studio Subscription special (Video and Photo). You don't need to be an existing customer. It's also a black Friday thing. It includes all their software. I decided to go for it too since Topaz Studio AI is end of life.
Where are you seeing $165? When I go to their portal and add the package to the basket it shows as $229 not $165
Edit: NVM I see it’s only by email invitation and must follow the Black Friday link for that price. I just purchased it as well. Thanks for the tip (found the invite email in my inbox - but apparently you only get this email if you had been a customer previously)
I’m in a similar conundrum, looking at B&H sales on the m4max studio vs. waiting for the m5max version. As a hobbyist working on 60 mp sony A7Cr single images, the speed requirements of a professional work-flow including batch processing is not important. And speed seems to be a non-issue for most Photoshop and LR single image actions – all of the m4 versions are similar and quite fast. The oft noted problem is with LR Ai noise reduction, which I am increasingly using on most images at low levels. For example, on a 60 mp sony file, my core i5 thinkpad takes 22 minutes to de-noise, my aging intel core i7-9700k with Quadro 2200 card takes 3 minutes. The few user posts of denoise times for 60 mp files are inconsistent – ranging from 10 -60 seconds. I am unable to find times with the m4max 16/40 studio on 60 mp files from reliable sources like ArtsRight.
Artsright LR denoise 36 mp single image:
M4Max 14/32: 19sec
M4Max 16/40: 16 sec
Artsright: 10 image batch mix of 36/45/60 mp files:
M4Max 16/40: approx. 3 min vs. M3Ultra 80 core: approx. 2 min
The results certainly confirm the benefit of high GPU cores, though hard to tell if the time benefits accrue with core number in a linear fashion. 30+ second denoise times would be pushing my limits, even for a hobbyist! It seems likely that adobe is on the cusp of introducing more Ai supported actions in LR – eg, ? noise reduction - that could be locally processed. (AI generative fill in Photoshop is fast on my old i7 since it is done in the cloud on Adobe servers). Benefits of neural GPU core integration in the M5 chip won’t be clear until the 5max machines are released and tested. And future changes in adobe’s software algorithms – e.g., restitution of neural engine integration- are unknown. For my uses, 10-20 second single image denoise times are OK, but if 60 mp files are significantly longer, upgrading to the M5max might be prudent if the speeds can match or overtake the current Nvidia RTX GPUs. A few month delay is no issue, a year might not be worth it. I’m a long time windows user, but the thought of getting a huge, noisy, and power hungry tower is not appealing. Switching to Mac studio for LR/PS use makes sense, despite the quirks of MacOs and the hassle of transitioning.
If anyone has timed denoise on 60 mp Sony files on the M4max 40 core chip, or has link, it would be of interest and helpful.
This is wild. I replied to marty22's post after reading it and somehow my response is now before his post... that i definitely did not precog and reply to from the past
Sorry about the mixup. When I posted, I thought it ended up in the wrong topic, so I deleted. Then realized it was in the correct place, and reposted. My first post on the site as a new member.
Thanks for response.
Very enouraging to hear about the dnoise times on the 60 mp files - looks like the M4max would be fine.
@Marty22 I will try to run one of my a7riv through LR denoise tonight. So far, I have only edited Z8 photos on my new Mac. On a 16 inch m4 max with 40 GPU cores and 64 GB of memory, it's taking about 15 seconds for 45mp images.
An M4 Max should provide a much smoother photo editing experience all around compared to your current setup. If you're willing to wait, the M5 line should give AI tasks a good boost, but how big that boost will be, how well software developers will leverage its new features, and how long it will take to happen are all TBD. Currently, it looks like the M5 Max chip will probably find its way into the mac MacBook Pros in the first 3 months of 2026, and then the MacStudio sometime between June - September.
If you decided to wait for the M5 Max, it may be worth trying to pick up a used 3000 or 4000 series GPU to update your rig with in the meantime.
I have been a Topaz customer for years but may not renew next year, if they don’t recalibrate the sharpener in their PhotoAI. It generates halos worse than early 90s noobs smacking images with ridiculous Unsharp Mask radii.
Ironically, Topaz’s Sharpen AI from a couple of years ago basically got it perfect almost every time…AND would optionally also clean up most noise in the same step.
Grenache wrote:
I have been a Topaz customer for years but may not renew next year, if they don’t recalibrate the sharpener in their PhotoAI. It generates halos worse than early 90s noobs smacking images with ridiculous Unsharp Mask radii.
Ironically, Topaz’s Sharpen AI from a couple of years ago basically got it perfect almost every time…AND would optionally also clean up most noise in the same step.
Sigh
Those are my experiences also. I stick to the basic Topaz Sharpen AI as and when needed
Grenache wrote:
I have been a Topaz customer for years but may not renew next year, if they don’t recalibrate the sharpener in their PhotoAI. It generates halos worse than early 90s noobs smacking images with ridiculous Unsharp Mask radii.
Ironically, Topaz’s Sharpen AI from a couple of years ago basically got it perfect almost every time…AND would optionally also clean up most noise in the same step.
Sigh
Have you tried the new Topaz Photo? I do think it's a bit better than Photo AI, but I definitely have to turn the sharpening down or it will start to produce strange artifacts.
I miss the standalone programs. I wish they would bring back denoise like they did Gigapixel.
DWOfPaul wrote:
Have you tried the new Topaz Photo? I do think it's a bit better than Photo AI, but I definitely have to turn the sharpening down or it will start to produce strange artifacts.
I miss the standalone programs. I wish they would bring back denoise like they did Gigapixel.
That is the product I was talking about. I don’t see a difference in what it over corrects, compared to their PhotoAI. Still stumped at how they had a better product and then screwed it up.
QUOTE : "An M4 Max should provide a much smoother photo editing experience all around compared to your current setup. If you're willing to wait, the M5 line should give AI tasks a good boost, but how big that boost will be, how well software developers will leverage its new features, and how long it will take to happen are all TBD. Currently, it looks like the M5 Max chip will probably find its way into the mac MacBook Pros in the first 3 months of 2026, and then the MacStudio sometime between June - September."
Agree with your take ... Seems like the m5max update for the macbook pros may happen in 1st qtr, with the studio sometime later in the year. Fall '26 would be a long time. Given my age, though, my next rig will hopefully be my last - otherwise I'd have no qualms about the M4
Marty22 wrote:
Agree with your take ... Seems like the m5max update for the macbook pros may happen in 1st qtr, with the studio sometime later in the year. Fall '26 would be a long time. Given my age, though, my next rig will hopefully be my last - otherwise I'd have no qualms about the M4
I ran a few of my a7rIV photos through LR AI denoise tonight, and got about 18 seconds per photo on my M4 Max.
Also remeber if you do wait until the fall of 2026 the cycle will probably repeat with the M6 chips in late 2026 / early 2027, which should be going from a 3nm to a 2nm production node, which should make for another noticeable jump in performance. The reality though is chips keep improving every year so there will always be an even faster chip on the horizon.
That’s why personally I gave up on waiting and got an M4 Max. Chancers are it will be at least 3-4 years before I decided I need a new Mac. In 20+ years of Mac’s I have averaged an upgrade about every 4.5 years. But if hypothetically the M6 2 years from now really is game changing vs the M4 for what I do, then I can always consider upgrading early, and at least I enjoyed the M4 for the last 2 years. I definitely could not see my self stretching 2 more years of heavy use out of my 2019 Mac Book Pro. I do realize everyone’s situation is different but I figured a little more insight into my taught processes and experience with Macs might be useful for you. Good luck on your decision!
