EB-1 wrote:
1/focal length is some kind of 20th century thing about camera shake.
Which Canon body has that setting? I have quite a few and can check on it.
EBH
Well said... 1/FL is archaic. As sensor resolutions have risen (dramatically), blur has become visible at faster shutter speeds, given the same rate of subject or camera motion. The Canon camera is compensating for this by selecting a somewhat higher shutter speed.
If you *know* that you can get away with a slower shutter speed in a specific situation and really want/need the lower ISO, then M+ auto ISO is probably the way to be.
EB-1 wrote:
1/focal length is some kind of 20th century thing about camera shake.
Which Canon body has that setting? I have quite a few and can check on it.
EBH
Most any camera that you put in Aperture Priority will chose a shutter speed of 1/focal length. That's been the standard.
You can adjust it if you want it to pick faster shutter speeds (ie, for moving subjects), or slower if on a tripod etc.
Using an 85mm, the camera in Aperture Priority picks around 1/90 sec. minimum shutter speed (to avoid handheld camera shake/shutter shock etc.)
With a 50mm lens, the camera picks *approximately 1/50 sec. minimum (and adjusts ISO accordingly)
With a 200mm lens, it'll pick minimum 1/200 sec.
When zooming, 24mm yields around 1/25 sec shutter speed minimum, zoom out to 200 and the camera should set around 1/200 minimum.
kirbic wrote:
Well said... 1/FL is archaic. As sensor resolutions have risen (dramatically), blur has become visible at faster shutter speeds, given the same rate of subject or camera motion. The Canon camera is compensating for this by selecting a somewhat higher shutter speed.
If you *know* that you can get away with a slower shutter speed in a specific situation and really want/need the lower ISO, then M+ auto ISO is probably the way to be.
Whether you think it's archaic or not, this is how Aperture Priority works. And the Canon is unpredictable while the Sony is 100% predictable.
Make the adjustment and the Sony has the correct shutter speed (and ISO) - however you like it, + or -; the Canon sometimes gets it right, then sometimes it's WAY over for no apparent reason - resulting in crazy noise in darker scenarios. *Unpredictable. And making for unnecessarily noisy & lower D.R images.
On the R3, I found the minimum shutter speed setting useless with most of my lenses, because there’s no way to set different values for IS on and IS off. (In principle, the camera could do this automatically because it knows whether IS is on. It could even look up how many stops IS got you by lens for a list of known lenses, and the RF protocol could be extended for the lens to tell the body. But Canon did none of that.)
So I only use Auto ISO in M mode, and in fact have that programmed into C1.
I imagine the R5 Mk II is similar. It is what it is.
ronno wrote:
Whether you think it's archaic or not, this is how Aperture Priority works. And the Canon is unpredictable while the Sony is 100% predictable.
Make the adjustment and the Sony has the correct shutter speed (and ISO) - however you like it, + or -; the Canon sometimes gets it right, then sometimes it's WAY over for no apparent reason - resulting in crazy noise in darker scenarios. *Unpredictable. And making for unnecessarily noisy & lower D.R images.
And I have not found any prior Canon to do this.
My current cameras—R, R7, and R6 MK II—choose silly high shutter speeds when in auto modes such as Av and P with autoISO. I'm not that steady anymore, so it's a feature and not a defect for me. Such behavior is expected and predictable to me once I got used to it. When light gets lower, I set ISO manually with the control ring so I don't have to deal with noise from crazy high ISO. Of course, I have to brace on a tree or use a tripod.
I recall the 1/focal happening on my old DSLRs back in the day, and yeah, I got lots of blurry images until I learned to select a stop or two faster shutter speed than given. It's rare that I get a blurry image now with mirrorless R series: the extra few stops of faster shutter speeds have proved to be helpful for pull and shoot situations.
ronno wrote:
Whether you think it's archaic or not, this is how Aperture Priority works.
No, this is how you think it should work.
ronno wrote:
And the Canon is unpredictable while the Sony is 100% predictable.
Just because you cannot easily predict the setting does not make it wrong
ronno wrote:
Make the adjustment and the Sony has the correct shutter speed (and ISO) - however you like it, + or -; the Canon sometimes gets it right, then sometimes it's WAY over for no apparent reason - resulting in crazy noise in darker scenarios. *Unpredictable. And making for unnecessarily noisy & lower D.R images.
And I have not found any prior Canon to do this.
Your solution is easy then... dump the Canon and stick with Sony.
Gochugogi wrote:
My current cameras—R, R7, and R6 MK II—choose silly high shutter speeds when in auto modes such as Av and P with autoISO. I'm not that steady anymore, so it's a feature and not a defect for me. Such behavior is expected and predictable to me once I got used to it. When light gets lower, I set ISO manually with the control ring so I don't have to deal with noise from crazy high ISO. Of course, I have to brace on a tree or use a tripod.
I recall the 1/focal happening on my old DSLRs back in the day, and yeah, I got lots of blurry images until I learned to select a stop or two faster shutter speed than given. It's rare that I get a blurry image now with mirrorless R series: the extra few stops of faster shutter speeds have proved to be helpful for pull and shoot situations. ...Show more →
"My current cameras—R, R7, and R6 MK II—choose silly high shutter speeds "
Yup.
That would be ok if the sensor was not already struggling with shadow noise - especially with video / LOG.
Since getting used to Fv I use nothing else (mostly a specified variant in C1-C3). I usually have exposure time as the active variable set at a rather high speed and auto ISO for fast or wild life. But if the situation allows for a slower shutter speed for lower ISO, it´s quickly adjusted. Use the control ring for exposure adjustment, aperture is one dial click away. Like M but as auto as you want however you want it, or not, by choice. Magnificent!
ronno wrote:
Most any camera that you put in Aperture Priority will chose a shutter speed of 1/focal length. That's been the standard.
You can adjust it if you want it to pick faster shutter speeds (ie, for moving subjects), or slower if on a tripod etc.
Using an 85mm, the camera in Aperture Priority picks around 1/90 sec. minimum shutter speed (to avoid handheld camera shake/shutter shock etc.)
With a 50mm lens, the camera picks *approximately 1/50 sec. minimum (and adjusts ISO accordingly)
With a 200mm lens, it'll pick minimum 1/200 sec.
When zooming, 24mm yields around 1/25 sec shutter speed minimum, zoom out to 200 and the camera should set around 1/200 minimum.
Same with film cameras.
Standards evolve. Or are you still on 56k standard Internet?
Gochugogi wrote:
I recall the 1/focal happening on my old DSLRs back in the day, and yeah, I got lots of blurry images until I learned to select a stop or two faster shutter speed than given. It's rare that I get a blurry image now with mirrorless R series: the extra few stops of faster shutter speeds have proved to be helpful for pull and shoot situations.
The 1/focal length was just for handheld camera shake before IS and VR. It does nothing for subject movement, which is mostly dependent on species and magnification. I like to change shutter speed as needed, for example 1/500-1000 might be enough when subject is just standing around, but then a flying BIF might be 1/2500-1/4000.
On a tripod for static subjects I would not want the shutter speed so high as 1/focal length. I use a solid tripod so ISO 100-200 is possible most of the time for landscapes even with longer lenses. For example the 100-500 surely does not need 1/500. And IS does help on a tripod to get that last bit of vibration.
For the life of me I just don't understand why anyone shoots with any auto mode other than auto ISO in M.
Most times, you know what aperture you plan to shoot with so set it manually. Then simply adjust your SS to where ever you want it. ISO simply tags along for the ride.
One single and simple movement with your index finger.
lighthound wrote:
For the life of me I just don't understand why anyone shoots with any auto mode other than auto ISO in M.
Most times, you know what aperture you plan to shoot with so set it manually. Then simply adjust your SS to where ever you want it. ISO simply tags along for the ride.
One single and simple movement with your index finger.
Yes, I know better than the camera what shutter speed and aperture I want. I'm happy to let the camera set the parameters I don't really care about, and do it far faster than I can.
lighthound wrote:
For the life of me I just don't understand why anyone shoots with any auto mode other than auto ISO in M.
Most times, you know what aperture you plan to shoot with so set it manually. Then simply adjust your SS to where ever you want it. ISO simply tags along for the ride.
One single and simple movement with your index finger.
For the record - I've shot in studios for years - plenty of shooting in M on a tripod / strobes etc > Food and products for Williams-Sonoma, Google, Sephora, Martha Stewart etc etc.
However, there are times when Aperture Priority rules for me: People on location, on bicycles, in water, portraits in varying lighting etc. Situations where the less time you spend looking at your camera instead of what's happening in front of you, the better.
lighthound wrote:
For the life of me I just don't understand why anyone shoots with any auto mode other than auto ISO in M.
1. If there’s ample light and shutter speed will always be fast enough but you otherwise don’t care about it, aperture priority is the most convenient way to ensure ISO is always set to base ISO.
2. On Canon cameras with Canon flashes, Av mode (aperture priority) is the way to tell the TTL flash system you want fill flash and M mode the way to tell it flash is to be the main light.
The 3 main semi-automatic modes are:
• aperture and ISO are fixed, shutter speed floats (traditionally called “aperture priority”).
• shutter speed and ISO are fixed, aperture floats (“shutter priority”)
• aperture and shutter are fixed, ISO floats (Canon calls this “manual with auto ISO”).
The stupid name Canon and others have chosen for this third mode doesn’t change the fact the three are symmetric with each other, and there’s really nothing special about it compared to the other two. And yes, in some types of photography it will be the most used.
melcat wrote:
2. On Canon cameras with Canon flashes, Av mode (aperture priority) is the way to tell the TTL flash system you want fill flash and M mode the way to tell it flash is to be the main light.
It seems to me that any auto mode does that including M+Auto ISO. I've used the RF 600 with the EL-1 quite a bit on the R5 in M+Auto ISO for fill flash and the exposures are indicative of fill, not main.
lighthound wrote:
For the life of me I just don't understand why anyone shoots with any auto mode other than auto ISO in M.
Most times, you know what aperture you plan to shoot with so set it manually. Then simply adjust your SS to where ever you want it. ISO simply tags along for the ride.
One single and simple movement with your index finger.
I prefer higher ISO to motion blur so mostly I want shutter speed as high as possible within reasonable ISO. Setting a low limit on SS to 2000 and letting it go higher if possible works nicely e.g. out on sea with razorbills swirling around you. Or in the direct opposite situation in the forrest with sun and shadow in a chaotic mix, treecreepers, woodpeckers, tits, ravens. Not much time to plan, even lesser time to adjust manually. And, of course, no tripod.
For fast or dark action there is no doubt that the present tech is preferable (huge understatement!)
But sometimes I really miss the slowness, the tranquility of photography with real cameras, my Linhof, with lenses with real names like Superangulon. This includes also the waiting for the result. For you youngsters, no the Linhof had no review button. Silly yes, but so it was and we all accepted it without wining on the internet forums as those were as abundant as the review buttons.
