p.1 #1 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
Hi:
I have a love/hate relationship with the Nikon DF. I bought it twice, and sold it twice. Whenever I look at the pictures taken with the camera, I want to buy another one, but once I try to use it, I could never get it to focus. I shoot only manual focus lens, and have to rely on the focus rangefinder indicator (not sure if this is the right name). I had tried putting a focus split screen with a DK17M on it, but in all but the most bright sunlight, I couldn't find the focus split image. I like how vibrant the red/green are for this particular sensor.
I am not sure if I should keep a D4, and occasionally shoot it just to enjoy that sensor. The D4 is too heavy for me so I will not use it for any kind of regular shooting. Or, get the D750/D780 and figure out the color profile myself. I found the price of the D780 to be too high for my taste (it is D850 money, and I would rather buy the D850 instead). Or, someone know some magic receipe that can get the DF to nail manual focus. (I had tried, getting the focus confirm dot on, then, rotate to the nearest distance while the focus confirm dot still on).
p.1 #2 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
As for matching the D4 sensor, I don't have any suggestions.
For MF I would recommend seriously considering getting a Z body, such as a ZF. Mirrorless bodies have a bunch of features, such as focus peaking and EVF magnification, that greatly help when using MF lenses.
p.1 #4 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
Thanks @DWOfPaul and RoamingScott for your quick reply! I am thinking about ZF too. In fact, the D780 body is not much cheaper than a ZF body nowadays. My friend told me the firmware 2.0 resolve a bunch of issues to make the ZF more user friendly: custom lens setting down to milimeter, lens names, zoomming out when half press shutter, etc. I have the Z8, so after firmware 3.0 update, I really enjoy the object detection for the Z8.
For me, this is partly due to my "love" for the DF but quite a few people tell me not to buy it again. I do enjoy having aperture information in exif, which a dslr can do but not a mirrorless.
p.1 #5 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
mikegao wrote:
I do enjoy having aperture information in exif, which a dslr can do but not a mirrorless.
With 2.0, you can adjust the aperture that is recorded in the exif with the command dial, which is a bit clunky but nice to have none-the-less if you're fastidious with it.
The refurb and used ZFs are such a steal that I wouldn't look in any other direction.
p.1 #6 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
mikegao wrote:
For me, this is partly due to my "love" for the DF but quite a few people tell me not to buy it again. I do enjoy having aperture information in exif, which a dslr can do but not a mirrorless.
I totally get the want for a piece of gear, even if it's not the most logical. But I think in your case you need to decide if that want is worth the frustration. I always had an eye on the DF in the DSLR days, and a friend of mine had one at the time. But the AF is one of the main reasons I never picked one up. I kept wishing Nikon would make a DF2 with the 55 point AF. At this point, I would definitely get a ZF over a DF.
I do still wonder from time to time if I should pick up a D850. The D850 is more than likely the last high res DSLR Nikon will ever make. I have some F lenses I don't plan on selling. One can even make the case that the D850 sensor is still the best FF sensor on the market. But I just don't see myself using it much. At the end of the day, the Z8 with the FTZ is basically the best F mount camera ever created. So while the idea of slowing down and using a DSLR still appeals to me, I can't help but think that if I actually went and used a DSLR again, I will end up annoyed at the shots I missed that I know my Z8 would have gotten.
p.1 #7 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
I have had the DF for 8 month now. Can't complain about the autofocus as I only use ai-s lenses on it😂
I bought a Z6 with FTZ II to see how that works with manual focus. But I just don't bond with it, the lenses feel chunky with the FTZ and I miss the correct exif. Can't complain about the image quality or anything else I just like the DF better - actually the DF is the camera I have enjoyed the most.
p.1 #8 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
DWOfPaul wrote:
@DWOfPaul ... do it! Get a D850 I do have Z bodies but man, there is something about the D850 sensor and the nostalgia of a DSLR, my head keeps telling me to sell the D850 and move on (like you, I have a bunch of F mount lenses which ironically work better on the Z system) but my heart wants to keep the D850 till the end.
p.1 #9 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
sanjayg wrote:
@DWOfPaul@ ... do it! Get a D850 I do have Z bodies but man, there is something about the D850 sensor and the nostalgia of a DSLR, my head keeps telling me to sell the D850 and move on (like you, I have a bunch of F mount lenses which ironically work better on the Z system) but my heart wants to keep the D850 till the end.
The D850 is one hell of a camera, I use Z6II and Z8 and I have some nice glass but when I take out the D850 with the old 85/1.4 or the 58G it is pure thrill, you never know if you hit the focus on the eye, you never know if you nailed exposure but, damn, those files!!!
I'd like a ZF by the way, I have a nostalgia for dials, I still have a film into both an F3 and an F100 (there also is an F which sees no use) but if I have to reach film it's the F3 with a 50/2 and again, what a thrill and, damn, the viewfinder, it's a balcony compared to digitals!!!
p.1 #11 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
Try a D4, you'll probably like it enough to offset the weight/size increase from the Df. You're not the first person I've seen mention the Df's rangefinder accuracy, and I'll say that I've never had any problems with the rangefinder from any of my flagships. D4 seems like an easy buy since you've already got a Z8, you liked the Df sensor, and you know you like some aspects of DSLR's.
For me, the D5/Z8 combo has been great for my non-CPU stuff. The Z8 gives you mount flexibility, focus precision via the EVF, and the deep grip helps offset the fact that lenses are hanging off the FTZ. The D5 (and any other flagship) gives you a nice big viewfinder, more camera to hang onto for longer/more awkward lenses, and the speed/simplicity of using the rangefinder. The Zf is fantastic with chipped manual lenses, but I don't really enjoy it with the non-CPU glass. Your mileage may vary, though.
p.1 #12 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
Look a gallery of prints and tell me you can tell which sensor was used.
I get it, but we (me too) waaaay overthink this stuff. Use what feels good and can produce what you like. I cannot tell the difference among my Z9, D5, 850, 750, and 500 prints...D300 and 200 for that matter. Maybe from a noise perspective with regard to the older ones.
p.1 #13 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
From a print perspective, I completely agree it would be hard, if not impossible, to tell which camera took a single photo. If anything, if the print is large enough, you may be able to tell it was an older camera with lower resolution due to the loss of detail.
But on the other hand, I do feel there is a certain look to the older, lower resolution Nikons such as the (D4 / D4s / DF) and (D3 / D3s / D700). For example, if I compare the D4 group vs the Z8 group on Flickr, I can see some differences in how each camera renders colors and contrast, for good or bad. If you took the same picture with both cameras at the same time, would one be substantially better than the other? Definitely not. But if your goal is to make a Z8 look like a D4, I do feel you may end up disappointed.
p.1 #16 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
For me, I am sticking with the Df. My response on this question is affected by my perspective as primarily an MF/Nikkor guy from the film days, and only recently purchasing a Df to try digital. I lived through the AF revolution (initially very so-so performance, but eventually amazing) to the digital realm (where things like ISO are no longer a prison) but stuck with my F3/T until the advent of the Df tempted me to finally upgrade to a modern NIkon body. I waited until the Df was discontinued, hoping that either the prices would drop or the Df2 would be released (neither of which happened!), but in the end pulled the trigger.
With some exceptions, the ergonomics and controls of the Df are nearly perfect for me. I am happy with the compromises (no video or built-in flash) and find the sensor produces really great results. On the focus confirmation with MF lenses, I am happy enough (using a DK-17M but still with the original screen), but do feel some envy for the capabilities of the Z-line cameras in this department. I'm not such a fan of how the FTZ adapter makes the smaller F-mount lenses feel on a Z-body, but would consider switching to a Zf if there was support for my AF-D lenses.
p.1 #18 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
The secret to nailing a manual focus shot with the Df is to fire several shots while slowly moving the focus ring. When you download the images, just choose the best focused shot.
As for the special sauce, I like mine silver with garlic
p.1 #19 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
The secret to nailing a manual focus shot with the Df is to fire several shots while slowly moving the focus ring. When you download the images, just choose the best focused shot.
This is the technique I use too. So, when I went back and look at the pictures, I only see those that are in focus (after deleting all of the out of focus one). But, every time I upload the photo to lightroom, is like praying photo will be in focus or I have shot enough to have one that nails it. This really diminish the joy of the camera. Even my D700 has no problem nailing focus. I can rely on the rangefinder indicator. Eventually, I just pick up the D700 by choice, but wanting to have something just tiny bit lighter. I do find the DF to be cleaner at higher iso.
p.1 #20 · Does the DF/D4 sensors really have the special sauce?
My D4 arrived today. After some testing, I feel like the focus accuracy is not as good as my D810 or even the D700. I had tried my Zeiss 50mm f1.4 zf, 35mm f1.4 zf.2, 35mm f2 zf, Milvus 35mm f1.4, 100mm f2 zf, Nikon 58mm f1.2 Noct. Amongst all the lens, the Milvus is the least accurate. The upside is that the D4's viewfinder is so good, you can almost check focus with it.
I am a bit on the fence now, as I still have a short window to return the camera. I'm unsure whether it is a camera problem or just me. I will test this out more tomorrow.
I do have Z bodies but man, there is something about the D850 sensor and the nostalgia of a DSLR, my head keeps telling me to sell the D850 and move on (like you, I have a bunch of F mount lenses which ironically work better on the Z system) but my heart wants to keep the D850 till the end.