Maybe I am late to the news but apparently Kodak Professional (Motion Picture) has moved on to a new technology that no longer uses remjet layers. The new technology is AHU = Anti Halation Undercoat. It's a separate opaque silver layer that is not photosensitive and therefore washes off in processing.
I have tried the new vision 250d ahu without remjet, it performs well in c41, it has great latitude in capturing bright scenes and hold shadow detail. I shot it at iso 200 but shooting 400 is no issue, that is essentially same is cinestill 400d but no halations here.
For me the grain and colors are better on the Vision films. They push and pull better than regular films too. For example, Portra 400 does worse with under exposure than 200T, with less grain and color shifts using 200T. I like having tungsten film options that with the use of a filter are also daylight films.
I've also switched all of my color processing over to ECN-2 which I mix and use myself. If I do a large batch of film in one go (8 or more rolls) I can get the cost per roll for development down to about $0.43/roll. I use ECN-2 chems on my C-41 films as well with good results. Granted I've just started doing this so things might change in the future but for now I am very happy.
And finally lower cost cannot really be excluded as the high cost of film is the main deterrent to shooting any film. Cheaper film lets me experiment more etc. It's not that I don't like consumer films, I do, I just enjoy the results, the cost savings, and the use of ECN-2 chems from ECN-2 films more.
fjablo wrote:
Not considering price, what is the advantage of using Vision 3 250d over Portra 160 or Portra 400?
I guess 50d could be interesting as a low grain option that has more natural colors than Ektar.
Although Vision AHU is cheaper respooled and even less if you buy the bulk rolls, I feel the grain is quite similar. In C41 compared to portra it is slightly more saturated which I like. Its not anywhere near ektar. It also seems to just hold shadow detail and highlights extremely well especially in harsh outdoor lighting which I shoot in often. I immediately noticed it. If processed in ECN-2 as intended, it comes out flatter and has more latitude for manipulation after scanning. Processing in C41 basically gives you a basic grading if you aren't needing maximum flexibility. Plus having a high speed tungsten film option for indoor color shooting is great.
This plot confirms what I caught cinematographer Jarin Blaschke saying recently. That 250D was actually sharper than 50D.
I love the color of Vision films in C41. Even when DSLR scanning and having all of that NLP color balancing tools I still find that I like vision film color better.
Appreciate the intention but that is one heck of a misleading graph 😂
Vision film Y axis is RMS, Portra and Ektar Y axis is PGI, so not comparable. And he comments himself that MTF results for slide film are likely misleading compared to negative - or does anyone really believe Portra 400 outresolves and/or is sharper than Velvia 50 and Provia 100f? I certainly can’t confirm that from personal experience
I guess we can take away that 250d has higher MTF than 50d, which seems plausible as grainier film can sometimes be sharper.
I just processed 35mm E100 and Portra 160 and the Portra resolved way more detail than the E100. I’ve no idea how the comparison between E100 and Velvia 50 plays out, but Velvia 50 might just be another positive film in retirement.
I processed a roll of vision 50d ahu, and it’s definately fiber grain then 250d, it similar the ektar 100, it a nice full sun film, holds details in the shadows well, I short it at iso 50. It may or may not be sharper then 250d but it is finer grain. I also shot a roll of 500T ahu at iso 800. I really like it for indoor, it’s a great film shooting available light, grain slightly more then 250d but not by much,
misteracng wrote:
... I also shot a roll of 500T ahu at iso 800. I really like it for indoor, it’s a great film shooting available light, grain slightly more then 250d but not by much,
If you can get some 200T try pushing it a stop to 400 and compare it to 500T. It should have smaller grain and be slightly better than 500T. I can't be sure how it would look +2 at 800 though.
misteracng wrote:
I processed a roll of vision 50d ahu, and it’s definately fiber grain then 250d, it similar the ektar 100, it a nice full sun film, holds details in the shadows well, I short it at iso 50. It may or may not be sharper then 250d but it is finer grain. I also shot a roll of 500T ahu at iso 800. I really like it for indoor, it’s a great film shooting available light, grain slightly more then 250d but not by much,
Sharpness, when it is defined the best I think, is two factors: resolution (as this plot chat is attempting to capture) and acutance. It seems rational to think that smaller grain = better resolution, but acutance really throws a curve ball at that as anyone who has ever used high dilution Rodinal can attest to. The new Phoenix II really displays that - grain like an ISO 1600 speed film and remarkably sharp. But for me it's likely to be marginal anyways - both Vision films are pretty damn good.
I really quite like 50D though for all of the reason you state. Especially now that I live in SoCal and there is no shortage of opportunities to shoot this stuff at f11 at 125th of a second.
ottokbre wrote:
Sharpness, when it is defined the best I think, is two factors: resolution (as this plot chat is attempting to capture) and acutance. It seems rational to think that smaller grain = better resolution, but acutance really throws a curve ball at that as anyone who has ever used high dilution Rodinal can attest to. The new Phoenix II really displays that - grain like an ISO 1600 speed film and remarkably sharp. But for me it's likely to be marginal anyways - both Vision films are pretty damn good.
I really quite like 50D though for all of the reason you state. Especially now that I live in SoCal and there is no shortage of opportunities to shoot this stuff at f11 at 125th of a second.
No halation with the AHU films. The film base itself being a motion picture feels more robust as well. Im sure its probably slightly thicker, but no issues. These are really great color films. I seem to prefer them more then color still films.
misteracng wrote:
No halation with the AHU films. The film base itself being a motion picture feels more robust as well. Im sure it’s probably slightly thicker, but no issues. These are really great color films. I seem to prefer them more than color still films.
With such high praise it certainly seems like a series of films to try, but where are you able to purchase them?
bwcolor wrote:
With such high praise it certainly seems like a series of films to try, but where are you able to purchase them?
http://35mmdealer.de/
I have ordered twice, it took about 7-10 days total to arrive for me. Yes these vision stocks especially now without remjet are excellent. I personally was not a huge fan of the halation look. So this is the way to go.
Have any of the film repackagers made comments about this? Thinking this'd have a big impact on their market, as it removes the delineation between ECN-2 and C41 processing, and companies like Cinestill could no longer hold a better market position with higher remjet removal quality controls.
misteracng wrote: http://35mmdealer.de/
I have ordered twice, it took about 7-10 days total to arrive for me. Yes these vision stocks especially now without remjet are excellent. I personally was not a huge fan of the halation look. So this is the way to go.
Looks promising, but importation to U.S. for items under $800 is now very confusing. Also, this site charges VAT for overseas sales and that VAT is listed as part of the items value, so import fees based on that. I thought to ask Grok about current import fees for the sale of ten 50D AHU and shipping and it generated a long reply with many possible import tariff results. The most pessimistic result was less than what is being charged for VAT.
I definitely want to try the new 50D as a possible alternative to Portra 160 shot at 100. I prefer Ektar colors (except skin tones) and Portra resolution, so 50D AHU is of interest.
