I studied photography in college way back in the 1960’s. One thing we learned was the zone system. Our meathod was first to determine the dynamic range of our enlarging paper of choice. Then we learned how to expose and develop our film so the scene would match on paper what we wanted.
Today when I hear people talk of using the zone system rarely do they talk about the whole process that I learned and used.
What brought all this to my mind was a video I saw recently on using the Sekonic L-758 light meter with film. This person used a simple meathod to get good exposre on color negative film. Using the spot meter he would get a reading on the shadows he wanted to retain detail. Then since all light meters give you an 18 percent gray reading, or zone 5, he would simpley under expose by two stops. And in the examples he showed this worked with good shadow and highlight detail where he wanted it.
I just wanted ti share this.
There are so many approaches that work well (better in some scenarios, worse in others):
- take a reading of the dark areas that should still hold detail and put them at -2 stops vs. neutral grey
- take a reading of the light areas that should still hold detail and put them at +2-3 stops vs. neutral grey
- take a spot meter reading off a grey card (I use a foldable one that Ben Horne recommended and uses sometimes)
- when using a camera with built-in meter, point it at the foreground (i.e. don't let the meter see the sky in backlit scenes, unless you want a more silhouetted look)
- just trust the average / matrix meter reading of the camera
I have the Reveni Labs spot meter, and one thing I like about it is that in addition to full zone-system support it also offers a simplified average reading where you point the meter at a shadow area where you want detail and then point it at a highlight area that you don't want blown out, and it'll average the two for you. In really high-contrast scenes this is just wishful thinking, because the two extremes may exceed the limits of your film's dynamic range (especially if you're using slide film). But it often works well for me when I have the time to take two readings.
It's funny, people think of landscape photography as a leisurely process in which you can take your time and get a bunch of readings to calculate a perfect exposure, but in my experience the light is often changing so fast, especially during golden hour, that it's hardly different from street photography. I barely have enough time to get two readings and often just resort to a single incident or reflective reading.
bjhurley wrote:
I have the Reveni Labs spot meter, and one thing I like about it is that in addition to full zone-system support it also offers a simplified average reading where you point the meter at a shadow area where you want detail and then point it at a highlight area that you don't want blown out, and it'll average the two for you. In really high-contrast scenes this is just wishful thinking, because the two extremes may exceed the limits of your film's dynamic range (especially if you're using slide film). But it often works well for me when I have the time to take two readings.
It's funny, people think of landscape photography as a leisurely process in which you can take your time and get a bunch of readings to calculate a perfect exposure, but in my experience the light is often changing so fast, especially during golden hour, that it's hardly different from street photography. I barely have enough time to get two readings and often just resort to a single incident or reflective reading.
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I am editing my post because the Reveni is impressive and I appreciate you mentioning it.. thanks…
Gossen hasn't added a new product in a decade. Sekonic is aiming the 858 at cinematographers and the 478 to studio photographers with complex flash setups. The Chinese are producing shoe mount reflective meters, some are better than others.
Matt Bechberger has been the most innovative at bringing new meters to market for the analog community. The original Reveni cube was introduced in 2019. It was brought to market during the analog resurgence as a way to make old cameras with dead meters useful. The Reveni spot meter was developed to fill a niche market. The great spot meters of the 70's and 80's are old. Often either parts or repair are difficult to obtain, plus they are large and often expensive. The Reveni spot meter is designed to use our binocular vision. It's pocket sized and is light weight. Plus it's new and Reveni is always working on updates. Matt listens to his customers and is constantly working on improving his products.
The reality is, still film photographers are too small of a market to attract any new designs from Gossen or Sekonic. At least there are a few that are still listening to us.
madNbad wrote:
Gossen hasn't added a new product in a decade. Sekonic is aiming the 858 at cinematographers and the 478 to studio photographers with complex flash setups. The Chinese are producing shoe mount reflective meters, some are better than others.
Matt Bechberger has been the most innovative at bringing new meters to market for the analog community. The original Reveni cube was introduced in 2019. It was brought to market during the analog resurgence as a way to make old cameras with dead meters useful. The Reveni spot meter was developed to fill a niche market. The great spot meters of the 70's and 80's are old. Often either parts or repair are difficult to obtain, plus they are large and often expensive. The Reveni spot meter is designed to use our binocular vision. It's pocket sized and is light weight. Plus it's new and Reveni is always working on updates. Matt listens to his customers and is constantly working on improving his products.
The reality is, still film photographers are too small of a market to attract any new designs from Gossen or Sekonic. At least there are a few that are still listening to us....Show more →
After two mentions of Reveni, I must admit that my bank account has been debited.. thanks all for the mention.
bjhurley wrote:
I have the Reveni Labs spot meter, and one thing I like about it is that in addition to full zone-system support it also offers a simplified average reading where you point the meter at a shadow area where you want detail and then point it at a highlight area that you don't want blown out, and it'll average the two for you. In really high-contrast scenes this is just wishful thinking, because the two extremes may exceed the limits of your film's dynamic range (especially if you're using slide film). But it often works well for me when I have the time to take two readings.
It's funny, people think of landscape photography as a leisurely process in which you can take your time and get a bunch of readings to calculate a perfect exposure, but in my experience the light is often changing so fast, especially during golden hour, that it's hardly different from street photography. I barely have enough time to get two readings and often just resort to a single incident or reflective reading.
+1 Exactly my approach and experience, too. Averaging between dark and bright works always best for me. I am using a fairly simple Gossen Digisix 2 meter which is small but fits my purpose. I worked with other more sophisticated meters but always found they were overkill and more usable in a photo studio for example. For my outdoor photography, a simple meter works perfectly fine with reflective and indirect meter options.
bwcolor wrote:
After two mentions of Reveni, I must admit that my bank account has been debited.. thanks all for the mention.
The only caveat I'd make is that none of his meters are weatherproof (I'm not sure my Sekonics are either, though!). You do have to make sure it doesn't get wet. I haven't had any issues with mine.
bjhurley wrote:
The only caveat I'd make is that none of his meters are weatherproof (I'm not sure my Sekonics are either, though!). You do have to make sure it doesn't get wet. I haven't had any issues with mine.
Not sure it counts as weatherproof, but I dropped my Sekonic L408 off a bridge into a river and although it was dead when I fished it out, it came back to life after I opened it up and let it dry out.
I am not OCD enough to mess around with the zone system. I can see its value in AA’s era with 8x10 negs and fixed grade papers, but I don’t think it is needed for the modern hybrid film/digital workflow, particularly when using small format negative films.
I found the following article interesting. I agree with the key message to avoid under-exposure if shooting negative films, which is easy if you avoid pointing the meter at the sky. Don’t stress about over exposure. https://www.johnnypatience.com/blog/the-zone-system-is-dead
So, I ordered the Spot ii and Lumo meters. I left a note with my order resulting in an EMail to everyone on the Reveni mailing list:
“Tariffs on Reveni Labs Products Shipping to USA, Starting August 29th
I’m sending this message for everyone in the USA. If you’re not in the USA, you can ignore this email.
Donald Trump signed an executive order on July 30th 2025, suspending de-minimis treatment for all countries on August 29th, 2025.
What this means is, the duty-free limit on anything purchased from outside the United States has gone from $800 USD to $0 USD. All imports to the USA will be subject to tariffs on arrival. It appears the country tariff rate will be applied, but for the first six months, a flat rate of $80-200 USD may be applied instead.
For Americans purchasing Canadian-made Reveni Labs products, this means a 25%-35% tax will be applied when your package reaches the border. Possibly, a flat rate of $80-200 USD could be charged instead, on any order of any dollar value.
If you are interested in purchasing anything from Reveni Labs and wish to avoid this, you MUST place your order BEFORE AUGUST 25th, so it can ship and clear the border in time to avoid tariffs. Preferably earlier, to avoid any stock issues.
I don’t know much more than that, or what will be the exact process following August 29th, but if you have questions I will do what I can to answer them.
The only time when I get a badly exposed negative is when I shoot a backlit subject and failed to meter manually instead of relying on the camera AE. Otherwise there’s no need to over think metering especially for C41 film. My main camera is a Rolleiflex 3,5F from the 60’s with TMax 400 metered with a Sekonic 308. When I shoot 4x5 or 5x7 large format I meter with the 308 and check the shadows and highlights with a Pentax Spotmeter. But I shoot at sunrise or sunset when lighting is uniform and the film will have dynamic range to cover the zones even if I just meter average 18% grey. One time I made it to location and realized the batteries in both of my meters had died. I had checked the meters the night before. It was strange and I was shooting at a supposed haunted hotel in New Mexico. I ended up guessing exposure and all the 4x5 TMX sheet came out fine. That cartoon in the inside of old film boxes the ones with little stick figure under a tree thus f8 1/100 for 100iso is pretty accurate most of the time.
