Now that Leica is about to produce an EVF version of their rangefinder M11, I would like to ask about what viewfinder might be acceptable with a new Xpro camera.
If Fuji used a viewfinder of high resolution, magnification and refresh rate, would this allow for an EVF only version of the XPro? I’m suggesting the viewfinder found in the FUJIFILM GFX100 II , Sony A7Rv, or Hasselblad X2D. I’ve only used the latter two and both are sufficient for me not to miss an optical viewfinder and the Fuji is supposed to be better yet. Of course, you would then expect this camera to have an equally stellar price tag.
My interest is only passive unless the camera/lens is fully weathered resistant. This is something that my cameras lack and I like to travel Asia when it rains often and sometimes with impressive force. Not having to balance a camera and umbrella would be appreciated.
My believe has been for some time now that the next X-Pro will be an X-EPro with a state of the art EVF. And if I were Fuji, I would offer an add on OVF for die hards that goes into the hot shoe and can display frame lines, focus confirmation, and may be some basic shooting info.
Unless you are wedded to zone focus and frame lines (with accompanying limited lens choices), I think an EVF would be a better and more useful viewfinder than an optical one with frame lines.
I also think it's about time EVFs took a step up (since they are now the norm on most mirrorless cameras). Better brightness, faster refresh, better magnification and apparent size. Some cameras already have superior EVFs, they should make that the norm, not the exception.
A super X-E5 type of body would be very acceptable to me.
I’ve moved on from my (much loved) XPro2 to the XT5 now, and one reason was that over time I found myself using the EVF more than the OVF. I think that one of the reasons for the original success of the XPro hybrid viewfinder (aside from the fact that the XPro was originally the flagship) was that when the line was introduced and up through the XPro2’s introduction, EVFs were still somewhat deficient performers — and the OVF bypassed those issues.
But even then, we recognized that the EVF had advantages in some situations — otherwise why would ther have been a _hybrid_ viewfinder? You can see precise frame boundaries, it is easier to superimpose data on the image, it is possible to see your subject better in poor light, and so forth.
Today almost the entire industry has shifted to EVF cameras with the success of mirrorless. The fear of poor EVF performance is greatly diminished, partly because manufacturers hae resolved mortally all of the former issues, to the point that EVF displays are objectively better in most cases.
Add that to some marketing issues and how to position a XPro replacement in a greatly expanded Fujifilm lineup… and I expect that a successor would me more along the lines of the XE-Pro concept… with no OVF.
The hybrid OVF is so good it’s hard to want anything else in my opinion. I love the fact that you can go from the ovf to evf with the switch of a button. It’s something I really love about the X100VI. I just really hope they make some improvements to the autofocus. I had read they’re going to be updating existing cameras autofocus. Apparently the chip can handle it, the programming/ai can be updated to improve the auto focus greatly.
It would be nice to see stats on how people use hybrid viewfinder. Personally I am all EVF now. OVF adds nostalgia to my X100V but the only time I have really used OVF is when shooting in very bright conditions wearing sunglasses.
Fuji has painted itself in a corner with hybrid viewfinder. It is integral part of X100 and X-Pro series identity. However, EVF has improved so much that in technical terms OVF is not needed anymore - it was a little different when the original X100 was launched.
I consider GFX100 RF as a clean sheet example of how Fuji wants to implement viewfinder. Just good quality EVF, nothing else. I really like using RF EVF. Hybrid viewfinder would just add unnecessary complexity to the camera. However, thinking of X100VII, I am fairly sure that hybrid viewfinder will stay in X100 cameras as long as they are made.
A great OVF feels way nicer to look through to me. The EVF is functionally superior, no doubt, but I feel closer to the world when looking through an OVF. I would love for them to innovate in the hybrid space.
I use the X-Pro3 exclusively with OVF with very little in the display. 35mm frame lines are perfect. Would like to see better implementation for 50mm. I wish the EVF was better, it's really not good. Would love something in the X-Pro size for adapting older MF glass. The EVF currently is just not sharp enough. Something like the ZF you hardly even need peaking. Unfortunately, as creative as Fuji seems on the surface, it's all in the user experience not the tech. The X-Pro is going to have a sensor that's been out a while, current Fuji EVF specs, an X-Half style simulation screen on the back display. It's not going to be some groundbreaking evolution of the line.
I want a reworked X-H2s sensor, attention to MF like the ZF, a large detailed EVF, IBIS...that's really it. I'm 50/50 on the screen. I love the X-Pro3 screen, but have no problem with a larger X-T5 style screen.
There are plenty of Fujis with EVF only already, Xe5 would do if you want r/f style and only EVF.
The Xt line gas a great EVF, much better for manual focus than my Xpro2, similar to tge Zf?. Getting an Xt quality EVF into the hybrid viewfinder might be a challenge, but it would be nice. And a better focus aid to speedups manual focus, a really good split image would be nice.
I've never been impressed with the Fuji hybrid OVF or their framelines. I don't like losing exposure features while using the OVF either.
The mechanisms of the hybrid viewfinder SEEM overly complicated to me, but if Fuji is confident in them, I don't see why they should change the core DNA of the product line in a way that will alienate some customers. The only asterisk here is...if the OVF is somehow holding back a better spec'd EVF, then I'd lean over having the better EVF over a hybrid.
tuomkok wrote:
It would be nice to see stats on how people use hybrid viewfinder. Personally I am all EVF now. OVF adds nostalgia to my X100V but the only time I have really used OVF is when shooting in very bright conditions wearing sunglasses.
As a data point of one: When I first got my XPro2 I used the OVF most of the time, generally only switching to the EVF when using lenses that don’t play well with it — bigger, longer lenses.
Then one time while shooting street in Manhattan I was out at night and realized that the EVF let me see things that were barely visible in the OVF. After this first taste of sin, I ended up more and more relying on the EVF (and its accurate frame edges), to the point that eventually the EVF was my default and I only rarely switched back to OVF.
That experience is part of what.convinced me to stop waiting for a better XPro and move on the XT5.
I will say, as a person who used early mirrorless cameras (and other devices with EVFs) very (very!) early on, that the OVF was actually a brilliant solution to the problems with early EVF technology. Those early models were of lower resolution and slower frame rate and were quite prone to glitching. Obviously, an OVF is not affected by any of those things. For fast street photography and similar work, especially with the decent frame lines in the OVF, it worked pretty well with small primes in the 16mm (maybe even 14mm) range up to about 50mm.
And being able to switch to the EVF when needed (at night, when accurate frame edges were important, and with larger and longer lenses that block the OVF view.
This is part of why the early XPro cameras were THE flagship Fujifilm cameras — the most expensive, best equipped models. They were fine street cameras, but you could put a big zoom on them or a large aperture prime or a fat macro. IT ws, at the time, a brilliant concept.
That time has passed though, and now the industry has moved on to some very good EVF designs that greatly reduce the pluses of the XPro.
I’m in the camps that thinks any future XPro will be an EVF-only camera… if there ever is one at all. (There are issues. The hybrid viewfinder, with its mechnical/optical components must add cost, and a flagship-level XPro would be quite expensive for a niche product.)
It has occurred to me that, seeing the increasing XE ricing, Fujifilm might simply enhance the XE a bit (some changes to controls, mostly, but maybe a second slot?) and call in an XPro…
'Pro' was always a bit of a misnomer. In my Pro life I rarely used my Leica Ms, too limiting, they were for play time.
Xh2s is probably the 'pro' item now.
gdanmitchell wrote:
As a data point of one: When I first got my XPro2 I used the OVF most of the time, generally only switching to the EVF when using lenses that don’t play well with it — bigger, longer lenses.
Then one time while shooting street in Manhattan I was out at night and realized that the EVF let me see things that were barely visible in the OVF. After this first taste of sin, I ended up more and more relying on the EVF (and its accurate frame edges), to the point that eventually the EVF was my default and I only rarely switched back to OVF.
That experience is part of what.convinced me to stop waiting for a better XPro and move on the XT5.
I will say, as a person who used early mirrorless cameras (and other devices with EVFs) very (very!) early on, that the OVF was actually a brilliant solution to the problems with early EVF technology. Those early models were of lower resolution and slower frame rate and were quite prone to glitching. Obviously, an OVF is not affected by any of those things. For fast street photography and similar work, especially with the decent frame lines in the OVF, it worked pretty well with small primes in the 16mm (maybe even 14mm) range up to about 50mm.
And being able to switch to the EVF when needed (at night, when accurate frame edges were important, and with larger and longer lenses that block the OVF view.
This is part of why the early XPro cameras were THE flagship Fujifilm cameras — the most expensive, best equipped models. They were fine street cameras, but you could put a big zoom on them or a large aperture prime or a fat macro. IT ws, at the time, a brilliant concept.
That time has passed though, and now the industry has moved on to some very good EVF designs that greatly reduce the pluses of the XPro.
I’m in the camps that thinks any future XPro will be an EVF-only camera… if there ever is one at all. (There are issues. The hybrid viewfinder, with its mechnical/optical components must add cost, and a flagship-level XPro would be quite expensive for a niche product.)
It has occurred to me that, seeing the increasing XE ricing, Fujifilm might simply enhance the XE a bit (some changes to controls, mostly, but maybe a second slot?) and call in an XPro…...Show more →
Is there a place for GFX-Pro 1?
Camera companies now want desperately move up in the market segments, and I might imagine that a hybrid viewfinder GFX camera would receive a lot of attention. It would also technically fairly straightforward to implement using existing components.
The cost and complexity of hybrid viewfinder would also be less of an issue in more expensive GFX camera.
It would be funny if Fuji simplified/made more robust the hybrid system by, instead of moving parts to make it switch EVF/OVF, that just settled on having two viewfinders side by side ala Leica Barnack.
ottokbre wrote:
....... two viewfinders side by side ala Leica Barnack.
? ? ?
If you mean the screw thread bodies, they have a single viewfinder and a separate rangefinder. Only have two viewfinders if you put another one in the shoe, and both are optical.
Camera companies now want desperately move up in the market segments, and I might imagine that a hybrid viewfinder GFX camera would receive a lot of attention. It would also technically fairly straightforward to implement using existing components.
The cost and complexity of hybrid viewfinder would also be less of an issue in more expensive GFX camera.
gdanmitchell wrote:
But why? What would you gain by doing this?
Nothing Most of us agree that technically there is little reason for hybrid viewfinder anymore. However, with the success of X100 series (along with X-Pro) hybrid viewfinder has become such an important part of Fuji brand, that going EVF only in all cameras will make some Fuji loyalists very disappointed.
Let's anyway play with the idea of what Fuji ILC camera would be the best candidate to be equipped with hybrid viewfinder. Will X-Pro 4 ever happen? I have my doubts. Personally I think that stuffing a very expensive viewfinder to GFX camera makes more sense. GFX50R successor with hybrid viewfinder would sure get plenty of positive attention.
tuomkok wrote:
Nothing Most of us agree that technically there is little reason for hybrid viewfinder anymore. However, with the success of X100 series (along with X-Pro) hybrid viewfinder has become such an important part of Fuji brand, that going EVF only in all cameras will make some Fuji loyalists very disappointed.
Let's anyway play with the idea of what Fuji ILC camera would be the best candidate to be equipped with hybrid viewfinder. Will X-Pro 4 ever happen? I have my doubts. Personally I think that stuffing a very expensive viewfinder to GFX camera makes more sense. GFX50R successor with hybrid viewfinder would sure get plenty of positive attention.
Most GFX lenses are too big for a street setup and it is really only street where an OVF has an advantage these days. The camera that could have had an OVF was the GFX 100 RF and Fuji chose not too.
