I am an amateur by all rights. I sold all of my gear 10-12 years ago for financial reasons. I had a Rebel XS and a 5D2 with 24-70 f2.8, 40 f2.8stm, and 50 1.8. I'm now in a place to get back into photography. My main focus will be landscape with some wildlife and macro thrown in. Something that would work for street/candid shots would be nice as well. I'm leaning towards mirrorless, but I'm not familiar with anything that is out right now. I have no issues buying used. Budget is dictating a setup under $2k. I'm sure this topic has been covered plenty, but like the subject says...starting fresh. Thanks in advance.
Funny, I ran across the 5D2 last night. Very inexpensive used. Definitely inexpensive gear available, you certainly don't have to get out of photography just because you dont have a lot of money
That said, $2k is pretty good, 5D3 or especially 5D4 should be an excellent upgrade. What lenses are you interested in, certainly 24-70/2.8 II considered much better, in mirrorless 24-105/4 L is supposed to be good
mlyoder wrote:
I am an amateur by all rights. I sold all of my gear 10-12 years ago for financial reasons. I had a Rebel XS and a 5D2 with 24-70 f2.8, 40 f2.8stm, and 50 1.8. I'm now in a place to get back into photography. My main focus will be landscape with some wildlife and macro thrown in. Something that would work for street/candid shots would be nice as well. I'm leaning towards mirrorless, but I'm not familiar with anything that is out right now. I have no issues buying used. Budget is dictating a setup under $2k. I'm sure this topic has been covered plenty, but like the subject says...starting fresh. Thanks in advance....Show more →
Some general throughts.
If your plan is to simply go back to where you were over a decade ago, you certainly could just buy the same old gear and it will work as well now as it worked then.
If your plan is to start with new gear (which is what you had back then, right?) then you could start by considering how well those older choices worked (and where they did not) and look for rough equivalents among contemporary gear. This will cost more, of course, but you’ll have equipment that is closer to state of the art and which may work for you longer than if you start out with gear from a decade ago.
Modern mirrorless cameras have some meaningful advantages over the older gear. That doesn’t mean the older gear can’t work, but it does mean that it will lack some features and capabilities of the newer stuff… and with new equipment you start out at the beginning of the products lifespan and you get things like warranties and regular firmware updates.
So, a couple of questions:
1. We you happy with the setup you had back then, with one entry level cropped sensor body and a higher level FF body? How about those lenses? Was that a setup that worked well for you and would you like to replicate it with modern options? Or would you like to start with a fresh slate? (I’ll note that some of the lenses you were using back then are not usually considered ideal for the kinds of photography you mention.
For landscape and slow wildlife any of the 5D2, 5D3, 5D4, 5DsR does the job. Only when the light gets bad do the R´s have a slight edge. Just find your resolution and price point.
The two main benefits for fast wildlife is the massively faster frames per second with an auto focus that matches, the eye auto focus, simply unbelievable on the first trips.
The one benefit of the R´s (except the oldest one, the plain R) is the focus stacking with macro. You dont have to stack the images, just pick the ones where the plane of focus is where you wanted. This has made my free hand macro so much more successful and strictly controlled macro for stacking so easy.
There is two divides in the body line up, the good ol´ crop vs fullframe but also the in body stabilisation, IBIS, or not. If you choose lenses that have IS, IBIS further helps a bit. Lenses without IS benefits a lot.
Dont be afraid of the cheap line of new Canon lenses. They are very good now! No actual need for the L´s unless you long for the look faster lenses may provide. And the new R´s handle high ISO so well, that fast lenses are more about the look than the need for all light to get ISO down.
When on a tight budget there are the two mighty f/11 teles, the 600/11 and 800/11. Simply superb for the price as well as their lightness and handiness.
A R7 with the RF 24-105 and the RF 100-400 or 600/11 would be a powerpack for sure. But the R10 is very competent too, R7 and R10 obviously crop sensors, so note the angle of view you get. The R8 is a great full frame, RP far cheaper, has focus stacking, but lacks the voppti doo auto focus.
My advice, from the experience of almost 60 years and a lot of mistakes: Don´t start cheap with the idea to expand later. Get the good stuff from the very start even if it may feel expensive. In the long run you dont have to update when you find the limits of the cheap stuff. HOWEVER, everything of the new stuff is so good that its up to the photographer to do photography, the gear is just tools, superb tools nowadays!
mlyoder wrote:
I am an amateur by all rights. I sold all of my gear 10-12 years ago for financial reasons. I had a Rebel XS and a 5D2 with 24-70 f2.8, 40 f2.8stm, and 50 1.8. I'm now in a place to get back into photography. My main focus will be landscape with some wildlife and macro thrown in. Something that would work for street/candid shots would be nice as well. I'm leaning towards mirrorless, but I'm not familiar with anything that is out right now. I have no issues buying used. Budget is dictating a setup under $2k. I'm sure this topic has been covered plenty, but like the subject says...starting fresh. Thanks in advance....Show more →
There are so many options to choose from considering any old DSLR will work great but if you want something you can grow into and won't limit you in any way I would suggest a used R6 for under 1K. The R6 is truly a professional camera with all proper dials, a great sensor, great video, and don't forget it replaced the 1DXIII for many sports photographers. The AF is sufficient for just about anything and you'll like the AF detection modes for portraits//street//candid shots, especially when shooting with large apertures. If the R6 MP count is not enough for you for landscape then it might be best to pickup an old 5DSR or similar, but that's just a landscape camera in comparison instead of a modern all-rounder like the R6.
I shoot with all the latest/greatest Canon bodies and if I had to go back and use an R6 I wouldn't miss a beat, other than losing the resolution from the R5II bodies.
The camera industry is much smaller than it was a decade ago. There’s really only one “full frame” (24mm × 36mm) system now that’s as complete as systems used to be: Sony FE. Nikon targets advanced amateurs. Canon targets the entry level and high end professionals, with little on offer in between.
OM System and Fujifilm offer fairly complete systems with smaller sensors.
If you do choose Canon, take a look at those L lens prices and be aware that there’s nothing in the “missing middle” between the cheap and expensive lenses. Would you like a nice weather sealed 85mm f/1.8 with good coatings and silent AF? You can’t have one. Canon don’t offer it and won’t let third parties sell full frame lenses for the RF mount. Canon have also rolled multiple L lenses into one, with results like the RF100mm f/2.8 macro with bokeh control ring and RF 100–300mm f/2.8 zoom (presumably this is cheaper than developing multiple lenses in a small market).
I think if you’ll be buying used you should look at either of the following:
• Sony FE full frame. Sony’s frequent updates depress used values of older models.
• Canon EF (DSLR) lenses. Values have fallen, even though many of these lenses are as good as their RF replacements (often better). As said above, you could get an R6 and use adapters, or just get a DSLR.
Standards have risen, too. Weather sealing is common on cheaper lenses, and little-known Chinese brands are producing very sharp lenses.
AT MPB, you can get a "like new" FF, EOS-R8 for $1200, and add an RF 24-105F4L "like new" for $1059- which is about $260 over the $2K limit, or a Canon RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 IS USM "like-new" for $824, which is just $24 over the $2K limit. ( All with a 6 Month warranty.)
Additionally, you can choose to go with used Canon APS-C mirrorless, which could allow more savings, plus the compatibility of possibly more affordable 3rd party lenses from Sigma.
Given your budget, full frame mirrorless might be a bit of a stretch. Even a used R6 is almost 3/4 of your budget, and then if you needed an adapter to use older EF lenses that adds another $100 or more.
I would say a R8 a bit more likely, otherwise you'd want to look at APS-C mirrorless.
Since you're starting new, you need to build out a kit and that's going to add up fast. You don't have a bag, a flash, a tripod, memory card, spare battery, etc. You could easily spend a few hundred just getting accessories to the camera. It seems like all of your choices are going to be SD Card based, so you might save some money by first getting the older UHS-I cards and then decide if you need faster ones in the future.
My 2 cents is if you want to experience higher resolution is to pick up a used 5DSr. It's going to offer you a lot more for landscapes, it also does well for wildlife you just need to do the tracking yourself versus letting the camera do it like on mirrorless. It's a bit large for what I think of when you say street photography, but it would be manageable. The primary advantages are you can get quality EF lenses without needing an adapter, and if you do decide to stick with photography EF lenses can be adapted to basically any mirorrless system while you transition.
mlyoder wrote:
I am an amateur by all rights. I sold all of my gear 10-12 years ago for financial reasons. I had a Rebel XS and a 5D2 with 24-70 f2.8, 40 f2.8stm, and 50 1.8. I'm now in a place to get back into photography. My main focus will be landscape with some wildlife and macro thrown in. Something that would work for street/candid shots would be nice as well. I'm leaning towards mirrorless, but I'm not familiar with anything that is out right now. I have no issues buying used. Budget is dictating a setup under $2k. I'm sure this topic has been covered plenty, but like the subject says...starting fresh. Thanks in advance....Show more →
EF 16-35/4, 50/1.8, and some flavor of EF 70-200/4 L (preferably an IS version, if you can afford it) gives you a lot of different focal lengths, and is definitely in your budget. I definitely think I'd rather have that adapted to an RP, or even on a 5D3, vs only having a 24-105 or 24-70. Also 24-70/4 L could work.
On aps it's not even hard to get 18-400mm ff equivalent and have enough left to get a macro lens and/or sigma 150-600 for $2k.
If you get 24-70/2.8 it is going to take most of your budget, unless you get EF V1, which isn't ideal. So I wouldn't do that, unless you really need 2.8
bman212121 wrote:
. Even a used R6 is almost 3/4 of your budget, and then if you needed an adapter to use older EF lenses that adds another $100 or more.
Used R6's can be had for less than $1000. This gives you another 1k+ for a solid lens set, like an RF 16, RF 35, RF 50, and EF 135/2 or RF 100-400. That is a very solid kit. You could even make more space by going with some older EF cheap primes but then you have the adapter which increases the size.
artsupreme wrote:
Used R6's can be had for less than $1000. This gives you another 1k+ for a solid lens set, like an RF 16, RF 35, RF 50, and EF 135/2 or RF 100-400. That is a very solid kit. You could even make more space by going with some older EF cheap primes but then you have the adapter which increases the size.
It's going to be a moot point to argue because everyone has different levels of what they consider acceptable for purchases, but I can tell you is that at the time of this post this is the only R6 you can actually buy on this forum:
Of the big retailers MPB has the cheapest at just over 1,000, but it also has 250K shutter count. A Good one is closer to 1,400 not including tax. Don't bother looking at KEH or BH as they are even more expensive.
Maybe if you wait for weeks you can find some deal to hit the price point you want, but even the sold R6's are going for more than 1K, and I'm guessing that price isn't going down. They may have missed the cheap R6 window and anything they are going to be shopping in a buy now fashion isn't going to be nearly as cheap.
That would give you $1,200 for some lenses and a bag to put it in. Or maybe even find a good used tripod if you want to shoot high quality landscapes.
I can understand if the R6 features are more appealing if that's what they are going for, IE higher frame rate and more autofocus methods, it's smaller and will be much easier for street photography, but at the same time the DSLR is going to win on detail and be much more familiar to use.
Both are still good options, but for someone who's budget conscious they really need to figure out what features are the most important to get the best value for them.
bman212121 wrote:
It's going to be a moot point to argue because everyone has different levels of what they consider acceptable for purchases, but I can tell you is that at the time of this post this is the only R6 you can actually buy on this forum:
Of the big retailers MPB has the cheapest at just over 1,000, but it also has 250K shutter count. A Good one is closer to 1,400 not including tax. Don't bother looking at KEH or BH as they are even more expensive.
Maybe if you wait for weeks you can find some deal to hit the price point you want, but even the sold R6's are going for more than 1K, and I'm guessing that price isn't going down. They may have missed the cheap R6 window and anything they are going to be shopping in a buy now fashion isn't going to be nearly as cheap.
That would give you $1,200 for some lenses and a bag to put it in. Or maybe even find a good used tripod if you want to shoot high quality landscapes.
I can understand if the R6 features are more appealing if that's what they are going for, IE higher frame rate and more autofocus methods, it's smaller and will be much easier for street photography, but at the same time the DSLR is going to win on detail and be much more familiar to use.
Both are still good options, but for someone who's budget conscious they really need to figure out what features are the most important to get the best value for them.
I hear you, it all depends on one's budget and preferences. If one wants resolution then the R6 is not the body to buy. But if you are okay with 20MP, you can find minty R6's for 1K if you look around at all the different marketplace options. And for the one for sale here on FM $1200 is his asking price, which means he'll usually take less. Plus, never discount posting a WTB ad here as I've always had good luck with them.
I promote the used R5 and R6 for the best bang for the buck because they are professional bodies that can hold their own in just about any type of shooting with all of Canon's latest/greatest top tier bodies.
I have the EF 24–70mm f/4 IS L. As well as IS it has a macro mode with 0.7× magnification at 80mm; you flick a switch and turn the zoom ring a bit more to get into it (and, yes, it’s 80mm and not 70mm). I have 3 specialist macro lenses so usually use those instead, but I have used this zoom’s macro mode and it does work, and I only have to carry a single lens. In macro mode the bokeh could be better and the working distance is short. The IS is a special “hybrid” type for macro use on DSLRs, also seen in the EF 100mm f/2.8 IS L macro.
This lens has been discontinued and there’s no RF replacement. Canon marketed it rather poorly so it might be hard to find used.
Nikon have a 24–120mm f/4 for their Z mirrorless system that relies on in-body image stabilisation, weighs about the same and goes to 0.39×, intended for (and apparently popular with) outdoors types like me. Sony’s newest version of their 70–200mm f/4 goes to 0.5×. Canon do offer the RF 100–400, which goes to 0.41×, but it’s slow and not weather sealed; otherwise there’s the very expensive 100–500.
EDIT: corrected an error in the description of the Nikon 24–120,
melcat wrote:
I have the EF 24–70mm f/4 IS L. As well as IS it has a macro mode with 0.7× magnification at 80mm; you flick a switch and turn the zoom ring a bit more to get into it (and, yes, it’s 80mm and not 70mm). I have 3 specialist macro lenses so usually use those instead, but I have used this zoom’s macro mode and it does work, and I only have to carry a single lens. In macro mode the bokeh could be better and the working distance is short. The IS is a special “hybrid” type for macro use on DSLRs, also seen in the EF 100mm f/2.8 IS L macro.
This lens has been discontinued and there’s no RF replacement. Canon marketed it rather poorly so it might be hard to find used.
Nikon have a 24–120mm f/4 for their Z mirrorless system which has image stabilisation, weighs about the same and goes to 0.39×, intended for (and apparently popular with) outdoors types like me. Sony’s newest version of their 70–200mm f/4 goes to 0.5×. Canon do offer the RF 100–400, which goes to 0.41×, but it’s slow and not weather sealed; otherwise there’s the very expensive 100–500....Show more →
The 24-70/4 is readily avaliable used here for less than 24-120 Z. It doesn't make much sense to complain about price on the 100-500, to begin with, since it was about the same as 70-200/2.8, & less than new 500pf. The 70-200/4 II Sony is the expensive one.
Sony isn't more complete you can still use the EF Canon gear on RF, in addition to the layest Rf innovations. If you want TS lenses or older less expensive teles, you have to adapt Canon to Sony anyway, and Fuji is nice but no way is it a more complete system vs Canon
melcat wrote:
Nikon have a 24–120mm f/4 for their Z mirrorless system which has image stabilisation, weighs about the same and goes to 0.39×, intended for (and apparently popular with) outdoors types like me.
The Nikon Z 24-120mm f4 does not have image stabilization.
Thank you everyone for your input. I am not in a rush, so I will take all of this info into consideration. I will share back here once I have decided and finally acquire my new setup.
mlyoder wrote:
I broke down and stretched my budget. I ordered a refurb R6 mk ii with RF 24-105 f4 L. I’m excited to get back into shooting.
Excellent choice! The R6II is an outstanding camera, one of Canon's best, and the 24-105mm f/4L is a great general photography lens. Congrats on your new purchase!
