p.1 #1 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
What camera? Viewfinder magnification differs.
Visoflex, LCD panel, or rangefinder?
If rangefinder, do you use an eyepiece magnifier?
If magnifier .. which magnifier?
Do you use the same focusing method for a fast 90mm lens? If not, how do you answer the above questions with regard to 90mm use?
p.1 #2 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
bwcolor wrote:
What camera? Viewfinder magnification differs.
Visoflex, LCD panel, or rangefinder?
If rangefinder, do you use an eyepiece magnifier?
If magnifier .. which magnifier?
Do you use the same focusing method for a fast 90mm lens? If not, how do you answer the above questions with regard to 90mm use?
If you're using the rangefinder, it’s really important that both the lens is properly calibrated and the camera's RF is within spec. Otherwise, getting accurate focus can become frustrating. Personally, I'm able to consistently nail focus with a 90mm f/2 lens since it has the same DOF as a 50mm f/1.4, but only because my lens and camera are well-matched. You might also consider using a diopter depending on your vision needs. I use a +1.5 on my Leica Ms and it's perfect for me since I only need reading glasses. And if you want a high-quality magnifier, I highly recommend the Light Lens Lab 1.4x with a built-in diopter.
If you prefer using live view on your M camera (Yuck!), the EVF or LCD with focus peaking and magnification should be more than enough to get accurate results.
p.1 #3 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
Thanks Fred..
I picked up a 75mm APO while traveling in Japan and can nail focus with the M11M, but it is a slow uncertain process. I reverted to the Visoflex 2. I used the M3/90mm/no magnifier, but other film Leicas and Ikon’s were always with magnifiers. I’ll order the LLL 1.4x and see if I prefer vs Visoflex. I travel with a 21mm/35mm, so Visoflex always with me…but I do have a 21mm Zeiss Ikon finder, so might be able to leave Visoflex at home.
p.1 #4 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
I agree with Fred's point about getting a diopter eyepiece. You might have pretty good vision, which was the case for me ~10 years ago, but it wasn't perfect vision and I found a diopter helped me the most because it made the RF patch very clear/sharp. In my case, being slightly nearsighted, I needed -1. If you have the chance, visit a Leica store and ask if they can help you determine the proper correction. About the only other option is to buy a bunch in a range that seems correct from a shop with a good return policy and return the ones that are least effective. I'm guessing the M's viewfinder optics don't easily allow built-in diopter adjustment, but it would be a wonderful feature if it could be included in future models.
I also experimented with magnifiers but concluded they were more hassle than help. Part of that might be my tendency to change lenses very frequently during an outing, and it's a hassle to attach and remove the magnifier. In my case I got the 1.4x for use with 90mm, which cropped too much to allow use with other frame lines. I also didn't like that it was practically poking me in the eye.
Another aspect is just getting comfortable with it. Use the combo a lot and learn the situations when focusing challenges occur. In my case, over 10+ years, I've rarely had perfect rangefinder calibration across all my lenses (actually, probably never!). Instead I mentally compensate rangefinder offset for each lens when working at or near wide open and it has generally worked well. Establishing the rangefinder offset can be done pretty quickly in a controlled situation by using live view to focus on a clear, high contrast target and then checking the RF patch alignment. The amount the patch is off is the amount you would compensate when using it to focus.
p.1 #5 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
A general comment on RF focusing.
Assuming the cameras and lenses are in spec there’s just one secret. Practice.
Once upon a time I could easily follow a bride walking down the aisle with a 90 APO wide open. Couldn’t do that today. RF focusing is a skill, not a gift and rewards practice above all else. The more you do the better you get. That said a few things I learnt along the way.
1. Always focus from one direction. I prefer from infinity.
2. Focus in one motion only. Don’t rack back and forward. Slow down a bit.
3. Correct missed focus by leaning in/out. If I push just a tiny bit past the focus point it’s quicker to correct by leaning in (out if you focus from close).
4. Use a stance that makes point 4 easier. I usually stand sideways a bit and rotate my upper body. Then I can easily lean in.
5. Always start with the exact same settings. My cameras are set to f5.6 after each shot as a start point with the focus at 2M. That’s my base and useful for zone focus. If I’m spot focusing I’ll push the ring to infinity and then pull focus from there, in a single smooth movement.
6. Start with deeper DoF and open up as you get better. Often I’ll take an exposure at 5.6 before opening up all the way for my shallow DoF shot. No waste doing this with digital.
7. Leave the visa flex at home while practising.
8. Practise to guess focal distance. This is easier with lenses that have tabs. I try to get some muscle memory for a few set distances. For now with my new Safari and 35mm f2 (I’m generally not a 35mm shooter) I have the camera next to me at all times and I try for a fixed distance without looking at the camera/lens. For this lens it’s 1.2M, Once I get the *feel* of where 1.2M is I’ll have 4 points of quick focus. 2M (start) 1.2M (feel), infinity and 0.7,
9. Your camera as a fidget spinner. I play with focus all the time. Shooting or not. During ads on TV. Waiting in a queue at the bank. Just where ever. Especially with longer and faster lenses this is the real trick. Practice.
Maybe a few people who are new to manual focusing find this useful.
Gordon
p,s. Some lenses, especially longer and older ones may have some gear lash. That means basically some slop or give in the focus helicoid. My 75 APO doesn’t but my 90 APO and 135 APO (especially that one) do. They focus accurately from infinity but the other direction they’re out of calibration.
p.1 #6 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
I never had an issue focusing my 75/1.5 Nokton or 90/2.4 Summarit. I’d usually use Leica’s 1.25x magnifier with the latter, which may have helped, but not the former (I didn’t own it at the time).
p.1 #7 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
I can focus reliably at 75 f2 and 50 f1.4 with range finder if there is enough contrast in the scene. Your room for error is paper thin though. When you need to be certain, using live view and rely on sensor readout works well. The custom function button just in front of the shutter button will zoom in for you under live view. I usually get my composition right then click the button to zoom in to nail focus. It's pretty quick.
This picture is from this weekend where my baby girl had a ballet performance. Excellent contrast for RF to see the eye. No issues with 50 Lux wide open.
LEICA M10-RSummilux-M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/1.41/250s100 ISO0.0 EV
p.1 #8 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
bwcolor wrote:
What camera? Viewfinder magnification differs.
Visoflex, LCD panel, or rangefinder?
If rangefinder, do you use an eyepiece magnifier?
If magnifier .. which magnifier?
Do you use the same focusing method for a fast 90mm lens? If not, how do you answer the above questions with regard to 90mm use?
I am using my CV 75/1.5 M-lens on several cameras including my digital M-E 240 and MM 246 ones and my Leica film cameras (in this case with 75 mm lens most often my M6 and my M3). I never calibrated this lens on any of my camera bodies and used it out of the box. I use the rangefinder focusing which provides me with very good accuracy wide open, too. One thing I added to ensure best possible focus is a diopter lens in front of the viewfinder fitting my eyesight (in my case a -1.0 lens - the viewfinder itself provides -0.5 diopter which overall brings it to -1.5 fitting my eyesight around -1.25 well). The diopter lens for the M 240 series fits all my Leica M film cameras too - I have two of these lenses, so I can swap them out between cameras I am using at the time. I have never used an eyepiece magnifier. Easiest focusing works in my case with the 0.91x viewfinder magnification of my M3 which is ideal for 50 mm and longer lenses. All my other M cameras have about 0.7x standard viewfinder magnification.
I am doing exactly the same with my 90/2.8 Elmarit-M lens regarding focusing.
p.1 #9 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
flash wrote:
1. Always focus from one direction. I prefer from infinity.
I always do it from either way, never just from one direction.
2. Focus in one motion only. Don’t rack back and forward. Slow down a bit.
I always purposely rack a bit back and forward until I see focus spot on.
3. Correct missed focus by leaning in/out. If I push just a tiny bit past the focus point it’s quicker to correct by leaning in (out if you focus from close).
I second this - this is very helpful to do sometimes. Avoids racking the focus back and forward on the lens itself. Just a bit bending forward or backward does the same thing with longer lenses.
5. Always start with the exact same settings. My cameras are set to f5.6 after each shot as a start point with the focus at 2M. That’s my base and useful for zone focus. If I’m spot focusing I’ll push the ring to infinity and then pull focus from there, in a single smooth movement.
6. Start with deeper DoF and open up as you get better. Often I’ll take an exposure at 5.6 before opening up all the way for my shallow DoF shot. No waste doing this with digital.
I always start out wide open if required/needed. Takes too long including focusing to move from one aperture to another.
8. Practise to guess focal distance. This is easier with lenses that have tabs. I try to get some muscle memory for a few set distances. For now with my new Safari and 35mm f2 (I’m generally not a 35mm shooter) I have the camera next to me at all times and I try for a fixed distance without looking at the camera/lens. For this lens it’s 1.2M, Once I get the *feel* of where 1.2M is I’ll have 4 points of quick focus. 2M (start) 1.2M (feel), infinity and 0.7,
Good advice but I never in all my years was able to accomplish this. Best I have a very rough estimate of the distances. Same as I never got used to the focus tab to accommodate distances. It just never works for me practically.
9. Your camera as a fidget spinner. I play with focus all the time. Shooting or not. During ads on TV. Waiting in a queue at the bank. Just where ever. Especially with longer and faster lenses this is the real trick. Practice.
Never did it like this.
p.1 #10 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
A lens tab is critical for me. I also focus in one direction, from infinity. My base lines are 3m and 5m, I know exactly where these are on my lens w/o looking at it and I also have become very good at reading distance to subject where I can can start to pre focus by feel.
If a lens tab is not available on the lens, I have added aftermarket ones. Not the best as factory (feel) but it has worked for me.
p.1 #11 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
Reasons to use only one focus direction (and tips):
. the rotation from close to far and vice versa are very different - just look at your distance scale. So, if you saw back and forth, the same degree of rotation will have a very different effect on the focus point, you will over (or under) shoot. The reverse attempt can be replaced by a fresh start working in the favored direction. Simplify.
. focus verification looks different from the two directions, because of this lens travel to in-focus is different, so the 'drop into focus' will look different - the base line of the previously seen image is different.
. it wastes time you may not have.
. your hand is controlled differently with direction of rotation, because of physical relationship of ring to hand - a haptic issue.
. the back and forth focus mode indicates to you that you are not sufficiently familiar with the lens to know when you have sound focus.
Practice makes perfect. Use down time to play with it, use your different apertures and your regular focus distances. Most of good technique is hard at first, and may feel alien.
Don't reject 'good enough' to search for perfection - a good shot is better than no shot at all, very important with short throw lenses that have less ring-working rotation. MF lenses are made to be a little forgiving, look for lenses with focal planes that jump a little as you arrive in focus.
Start with an easy aperture, one with more DOF and better contrast, then work more open from there.
Find your regular focus distances and set the lens near that (those) distances - read from focus acquisition, not lens scale. This is important with long throw lenses (e.g. Zeiss). Axial camera movement can help too, by separating the finding of focus from your hand movements.
p.1 #12 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
ZdevilH1 wrote:
A lens tab is critical for me. I also focus in one direction, from infinity. My base lines are 3m and 5m, I know exactly where these are on my lens w/o looking at it and I also have become very good at reading distance to subject where I can can start to pre focus by feel.
If a lens tab is not available on the lens, I have added aftermarket ones. Not the best as factory (feel) but it has worked for me.
Likely reason why I never like tabs is due to the times when I started in photography in the mid 80s - used manual focus SLR lenses for a long time which only have a focus ring. I became very proficient to accurately focus with all kind of thicker and thinner focus rings and transferred this when starting to use M lenses. Half of my M lenses have a focus tab, the other ones don't. I got more used to the focus tab now, but I often in practice don't remember which position is for which kind of distance .
p.1 #13 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
One of the key things I've read here that truly rings true is practice.
One thing I did a few years back is I sent my 90 Cron APO and one of my M 10s into Leica to have focus calibrated together for my pro work. The 90 pretty much stays on that body and the focus is still right on the money.
I shoot a fair amount of candid event work wide open and some available lightl portraits wide open. I do like the way the 90 Cron APO renders wide open.
p.1 #14 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
I much prefer focus tab lenses. If you stick with a set of lenses for a long time, you begin to get a feel of where the tap should be based on the distance of the subject. Before I even look through the RF patch, my tab is already adjusted to where I feel the focus should be.
p.1 #15 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
retrofocus wrote:
Likely reason why I never like tabs is due to the times when I started in photography in the mid 80s - used manual focus SLR lenses for a long time which only have a focus ring. I became very proficient to accurately focus with all kind of thicker and thinner focus rings and transferred this when starting to use M lenses. Half of my M lenses have a focus tab, the other ones don't. I got more used to the focus tab now, but I often in practice don't remember which position is for which kind of distance ....Show more →
That is a big advatange you have there w/ SLR lenses, I only started using M lenses 4 years ago and while I have purchased other vintage manual focus glass in the likes of Minolta, and carl zeis (pancolar) that I use with my SL3-S, those lenses forces me to slow down even more because I dont know where I am in the focusing approach which is kinda the opposite of you :-)
I have committed to learning the range finder and lens scales to a point where I can quickly change my appreture to say f2.8 - F4 and set the distance scale on the lens to be between 3m and 5m and I can cover that spread while shootong from the hip. Like all others have said, practice practice practice. My grounds were my kitchen where I would spend time understanding what 3m and 5m looks like when learning, then closing in more at 1.5m and so forth. Its been very therapeutic and very rewarding at the same time. Cheers!
p.1 #16 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
gordec wrote:
I much prefer focus tab lenses. If you stick with a set of lenses for a long time, you begin to get a feel of where the tap should be based on the distance of the subject. Before I even look through the RF patch, my tab is already adjusted to where I feel the focus should be.
This is my approach. Pre-focus before the camera reaches my eye.
p.1 #17 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
retrofocus wrote:
Likely reason why I never like tabs is due to the times when I started in photography in the mid 80s - used manual focus SLR lenses for a long time which only have a focus ring. I became very proficient to accurately focus with all kind of thicker and thinner focus rings and transferred this when starting to use M lenses. Half of my M lenses have a focus tab, the other ones don't. I got more used to the focus tab now, but I often in practice don't remember which position is for which kind of distance ....Show more →
I was much the same. Even sold my 50 Summilux for the black paint version to not have the tab. I’d spent so long on SLR’s early on that a tab didn’t matter. Then I got a tiny CV lens (can’t remember which one. Maybe the 35SC or the 28?) where basically I had to use the tab as there was bugger all focus ring. That was on an M10. So I’d be a non-tab shooter for 40 years. After that I really liked them and even bought back to 50 ‘lux with the tab. So I get where you’re coming from, completely.
I think the tab does make *feeling* focus distance significantly easier than not. But they’re Vegemite. You like them or you really don’t.
p.1 #18 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
I will say I find just playing with the camera quite therapeutic. I suppose like some do/did with a fidget spinner. If my brain is mulling over something or I’m just left waiting for something (used to be my kids. Now it’s waiting for K’s shopping. ) playing with an M is my time waster. I like how tactile the cameras are so *practice* isn’t really deliberate. I don’t even turn the camera on. I’ll just guess distances and try to set the RF there without looking or count aperture clicks or shutter speeds.
While shooting, I enjoy my SL3’s or Hasselblads as much as my M. But I don’t *fidget* with those cameras like I do with an M. I still carry a camera with me almost every day. I’d taken a break from my M’s for the last year and I’m enjoying how tactile they are again now.
p.1 #20 · Rangefinder M-Mount Shooters: How Do You Nail Focus With a Fast 75mm Lenses?
So many of you mention using corrective eyepieces. So, this means that you remove your glasses every time you use the camera, or does it mean that your eyeglass/contact lens prescription is wrong?
Over the years I’ve seen a number of posts mentioning how the poster’s ability to focus was negatively affected by their astigmatism. I never understood this. Your glasses, or contact lenses should correct your astigmatism. Problem solved. Of course eye relief isn’t the best with the M System viewfinders, so glasses negatively impact the ability to see the wider frame lines. My M6TTL (0.58) and Zeiss Ikon’s are a great solution here.. but of course digital offerings are more restrictive.
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