fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       end
  

Archive 2025 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining

  
 
pjmsj21
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Just another comparison point, Nikon has used the same sensor since the D850, July 2017.


jwpstl wrote:
Definitely not. The 2 and 3 used the same sensor and the 4 and 5 used a different one. If history holds, the 6 will have yet another.





May 28, 2025 at 10:46 AM
MARKFER
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Isn't this just a dot on the chart of product cycle? Something tells me when Sony comes out with the A7V etc things will change. I do think as Nikon fills out the lens lineup, they will get some more of the pie. Fuji eats at them more than they do Sony or Canon in my mind. I don't care for their top quality primes being big and heavy as they are. Otherwise, they make great stuff so of course they will show their face in product sales.


May 28, 2025 at 11:05 AM
Jerky_san
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Honestly saw predictions of this coming when they refused to do even real bug fixes for the A1 and how sony resting on their laurels would eventually come back and bite them. It seems that nikon is trying extremely hard in both price, hardware, and finally features WITH firmware upgrades. A lot of people laughed at them when they released a camera and promised a bunch of things would come. Granted that is a huge risk to be honest but they seemed to of came through in a lot of big ways. I feel like Sony better start adding stuff or being more focused on the wants and critiques of their cameras. It seems like they really don't listen to be honest. Bird/Animal eye in video with the A1, h265 TO THIS DAY WITH FX2 missing 30 fps and 25 fps. Like why? Seriously.. why? Why can they do 60 fps and 23.976 fps but miss 30 fps? Other gripes as well as I still say the original A1 could of done precapture. It can do nearly 200 50 megapixel pictures in it's own buffer. There should be no reason it just drops the last frame after it hits 30 fps instead of dumping it to an sd card. It seems like they are starting to actually do firmware updates again but I question if they are going to be late to the party honestly. They also seem to just be giving minor things like focus bracketing in the original A1 which I honestly don't get why it couldn't of done that a long time ago.


May 28, 2025 at 11:44 AM
DWOfPaul
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


pjmsj21 wrote:
Just another comparison point, Nikon has used the same sensor since the D850, July 2017.


Nikon may have stuck with 45mp, but my understanding is the sensor has not stayed the same. The D850 has no phase detection points, appears to be single gain, and arguably has the best low ISO image quality. The Z7 gained phase detection points and dual gain. The Z7II has fewer artifacts from the phase detection points, this may be a hardware tweak or a software tweak. The Z9 switched to a dual gain stacked sensor, which is a very different sensor. Then the Z8 appears to have used the same sensor as the Z9.



May 28, 2025 at 11:46 AM
snapsy
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


DWOfPaul wrote:
Nikon may have stuck with 45mp, but my understanding is the sensor has not stayed the same. The D850 has no phase detection points, appears to be single gain, and arguably has the best low ISO image quality. The Z7 gained phase detection points and dual gain. The Z7II has fewer artifacts from the phase detection points, this may be a hardware tweak or a software tweak. The Z9 switched to a dual gain stacked sensor, which is a very different sensor. Then the Z8 appears to have used the same sensor as the Z9.


Agreed, the Z8/Z9 is a completely different sensor than the D850. In fact the Z8/Z9 and A1 use the same core sensor IP, based on how the sensor readout speeds are identical.



May 28, 2025 at 12:00 PM
tonychen
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Sensor r&d is expensive but the shipping volume is so low. This model is actually against the typical semiconductor chip business model. Glad Sony can manage to make it a single design but still create enough differences to differentiate the final products for them and their competitors.

snapsy wrote:
Agreed, the Z8/Z9 is a completely different sensor than the D850. In fact the Z8/Z9 and A1 use the same core sensor IP, based on how the sensor readout speeds are identical.




May 28, 2025 at 02:56 PM
RatX2
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


The discussion would be improved if we knew what data were used with their associated errors. Are these data comparable year over year? Sure, there is a trend, but are apples being compared to apples - every year? Moreover, I switched from Nikon to Sony for the weight savings, lens selection, and at the time, AF (I use a Sony A7R V; sold D4S, Z6, Z7, and various S lenses). I would not go back. News of the death of Sony cameras appears to be greatly exaggerated.


May 28, 2025 at 04:03 PM
JohnDizzo15
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Appears to be a cherry-picked data set with a misleading headline attached for the sake of garnering interest and clicks.

If you really peel back the logic, there is nothing of actual substance that can be gained from the shared data snippet other than the fact that the Japanese market has taken well to the Z5II in the month of April. What it is very successful at doing though, is getting people to participate in conjecture that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on total market share.

The headline, if they wanted to be more accurate, should read something more like, "Nikon sells more full frame cameras in April 2025 than Sony in Japan."

Instead, the headline is, "Sony no longer leads the mirrorless market in Japan and falls behind Nikon." Seems like an intentional obscuring of what is actually being shared in order to manipulate the reader into adding their own facts and tapping into their potential brand tribalism.



May 28, 2025 at 06:57 PM
lightskyland
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


robert614 wrote:
Nikon is being very aggressive right now. Similar to how Sony was when they decided to go all in on mirrorless.

Back then, Canon was the slow to react, market leader. Now Sony is

Hopefully, this will light a fire under Sony. The tariffs do complicate matters though. Holding a cloud of uncertainty over all the brands


Yes, Sony is a real laggard with cameras like the A9III, the FF C models or by far the largest and most complete lens lineup in the business, ranging from tiny primes and zooms to monsters like the 600/4 and the 400-800.



May 28, 2025 at 07:29 PM
aCuria
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Nikon just refreshed their low end cameras recently.

Sony has not released the A7V yet so people should hold off (and they are holding off)



May 28, 2025 at 07:54 PM
darrellc
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


Sony will probably kinda coast compared to earlier rate of change - until they can't.

These are profit maximizing entities. Sony's going to extract the maximum until they need to respond to Nikon or whomever. If Nikon starts winning big, it will flip around. Pretty much the same as it always has been. I remember bailing on Canon early 2010's cause they got so boring shipping the same sensors and killing it with distribution of crappy rebel kits to every single store. But they were making a lot of money - Canon annual revenue was all-time high back in 2011-12. they've never come close to that since.



May 28, 2025 at 07:57 PM
JohnDizzo15
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


While dropping a deuce just now (where I do most of my best thinking ), I remembered that I also wanted to point out that it took a highly successful release from Nikon just to barely surpass Sony for 1 month in a specific camera niche, in a specific niche market..

If you flip that on its head, the other way of looking at the April result is that both companies are basically in a dead heat for sales for the month, with Sony not having had a similar new FF camera release since Q3/4 of 2023.

In reality, I would take this as both a positive and a negative for Nikon. Yes, they boosted their full frame camera sales significantly for that month. Simultaneously, they were only able to basically break even with Sony, who hasn't released a shiny new toy in that range for almost 2 years. Conversely for Sony, I would take that as a win, as the next question that is begged is, "what will these numbers look like in the month that the A7V or A7CIII are released?"

Also, what do the international numbers look like? What do total ILC numbers look like?

Not trying to trash Nikon, but I'm just not a fan of articles/headlines like these.



May 28, 2025 at 09:46 PM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


chez wrote:
Doesn’t make sense not to include all mirrorless cameras into the equation…not just full frame. Yeh, it would be good to know if the figure is in units or revenue.


It seems like the stats were chosen to demonstrate what mattered to that brand. Fuji is completely neglected since they make cameras in sub-miniature and medium formats but not 24x36mm format.

EBH



May 28, 2025 at 10:14 PM
1bwana1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


No matter how one wants to interpret or read trends into this data we should all acknowledge the progress that Nikon is making in mirrorless cameras. We should also acknowledge that we as camera enthusiasts are better off for it.

As for the Sony zealots here they can take comfort in the knowledge that Nikon cameras are to a meaningful extent "Sony Inside" so every time Nikon sells a camera Sony Corp benefits. That helps keep the company strong.

Edited on May 29, 2025 at 07:47 AM · View previous versions



May 29, 2025 at 03:50 AM
Tony Ross
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


aCuria wrote:
Nikon just refreshed their low end cameras recently.

Sony has not released the A7V yet so people should hold off (and they are holding off)


First they had to release the FX2 using the same sensor as A7IV.

Now that's out of the way, they can release the A7V.




May 29, 2025 at 05:22 AM
ruthenium
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining



JohnDizzo15 wrote:
While dropping a deuce just now (where I do most of my best thinking ), I remembered that I also wanted to point out that it took a highly successful release from Nikon just to barely surpass Sony for 1 month in a specific camera niche, in a specific niche market..

If you flip that on its head, the other way of looking at the April result is that both companies are basically in a dead heat for sales for the month, with Sony not having had a similar new FF camera release since Q3/4 of 2023.

In reality, I would
...Show more

Re "what will these numbers look like in the month that the A7V or A7CIII are released?" - I don't know, but I wonder what new features these next generation bodies would bring to make one part with a few thousand dollars?
The technology has peaked in many ways; thus I cannot think of anything except possibly slightly better AF. Sony excells in making the electronics (and lenses). I wish they invested as heavily in camera software development to add more interesting and useful computational photography features. Also new generation cameras designed for the enthusiast photographer of tomorrow can probably be more "futuristic", more appealing to the younger people.
Basically my concern is that A7V or A7CIII are going to be as exciting as A1 II when compared to A1.



May 29, 2025 at 05:23 AM
j4nu
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


ruthenium wrote:
Re "what will these numbers look like in the month that the A7V or A7CIII are released?" - I don't know, but I wonder what new features these next generation bodies would bring to make one part with a few thousand dollars?
The technology has peaked in many ways; thus I cannot think of anything except possibly slightly better AF. Sony excells in making the electronics (and lenses). I wish they invested as heavily in camera software development to add more interesting and useful computational photography features. Also new generation cameras designed for the enthusiast photographer of tomorrow can probably
...Show more

The list of things to improve is infinite (especially at the rate Sony is serving them) :
EVF, LCD, IBIS, AF, FPS, DR/Noise, WB, resolution, read-out speed, flash-synch, battery, body, buttons, dials, grip, eye-cup, weather sealing, usb, lan, hdmi, wifi, bt, gps, codecs, luts/simulations, overlays, hdr, ...

But these are mostly minor tech improvements, I think the main course will be set by major drivers such as automation and, as you already noted, computation.
Funnily enough, Sony kickastarted the AI stuff in AF (and touts it as the major upgrade in A1 II), but was overtaken by Canon recently...



May 29, 2025 at 05:55 AM
aCuria
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


ruthenium wrote:
Re "what will these numbers look like in the month that the A7V or A7CIII are released?" - I don't know, but I wonder what new features these next generation bodies would bring to make one part with a few thousand dollars?
The technology has peaked in many ways; thus I cannot think of anything except possibly slightly better AF. Sony excells in making the electronics (and lenses). I wish they invested as heavily in camera software development to add more interesting and useful computational photography features. Also new generation cameras designed for the enthusiast photographer of tomorrow can probably
...Show more

One can hope for a 24MP to 33MP stacked or partially stacked sensor, fps competitive with the Canon R6ii (40fps) and Nikon Z6iii, 60fps video full frame, 120fps 4K video, pose estimation autofocus, dynamic active video stabilizer, 8.5 stops IBIS, auto subject detect, -5ev autofocus sensitivity, updated body, pre capture (z6iii has it), tilt + flip screen

2 CF-A slots would be nice but may not happen



May 29, 2025 at 07:49 AM
ruthenium
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


aCuria wrote:
One can hope for a 24MP to 33MP stacked or partially stacked sensor, fps competitive with the Canon R6ii (40fps) and Nikon Z6iii, 60fps video full frame, 120fps 4K video, pose estimation autofocus, dynamic active video stabilizer, 8.5 stops IBIS, auto subject detect, -5ev autofocus sensitivity, updated body, pre capture (z6iii has it), tilt + flip screen

2 CF-A slots would be nice but may not happen


When I picture this A7V, I cannot help seeing a hybrid of A9III and A1 - ain't gonna happen, in my opinion.



May 29, 2025 at 08:18 AM
RoamingScott
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · Sony and Canon losing market share in Japan, Nikon gaining


What we are seeing with Nikon is just a natural cycle in a marketplace with fierce competition. One company dominates (used to be Canon), and then another company comes in guns blazing to eat their lunch (Sony). Now Sony is the lazy fat cat while Nikon has taken on the aggressor role. It's just how the market and competition works.

Sony has a unique advantage though that they get a cut of every Nikon sale thanks to their sensor fab business, so they can afford (financially) to be lazy. It seems like customers are starting to notice, though, and Sony has basically exhausted their good will from dethroning Canon. With how disappointing the A7iv was, and how incremental the A1ii was...what hope is there to be excited about the A7v?

Meanwhile, the Z5ii is more camera than 90% of consumers need at under $1700.



May 29, 2025 at 08:30 AM
1              3       4       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account