p.2 #1 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
Good to hear observations from people not selling themselves on youtube.
I don't have an A1 II yet. I'll get one eventually, no hurry. I might rent one first and try it for myself. Precapture is the biggest selling point to me.
I am glad to hear it recognizes more bird poses. This would be an improvement. I think egrets, herons, and long neck birds could use some eye focus improvements compared to normal shaped birds on the original A1.
I always find it amusing when people complain camera X can't recognize a bird almost completely obscured and only two pixels big in the frame, yet camera Y can. That wasn't going to be a good shot anyway. Any improvement is welcome of course.
p.2 #2 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
Interesting. I use my Sony's a little differently than you do I guess, so I have never noticed this although I don't doubt you in any way. I always use a combination of zone or wide tracking and small spot or now X-Small spot, and flip between the two with a custom recall button (AEL in my case). I even did that with the A7RV. I haven't notice the zone grabbing anything closer but I am almost always shooting at 600mm or greater with very narrow DOF, so there's usually nothing contrasty enough to cause the AF to grab. The X-Small spot works particularly well on the newer A1II's and A9III; if it I get it anywhere on a bird in thick brush, it will find the entire bird and then grab the eye. I haven't used the Canon's but I agree the AI model could be better at picking out the bird in a mess of stuff when using zone or wider focus areas. That said, once it does find the bird it's ridiculously sticky.
I just got back from ten days in the cloud forests and Amazon jungle of Ecuador with my nephew and many times we were shooting the same bird side by and he was cursing because his A1 wouldn't lock on or find the eye, while my A1II was locked on to the eye and nailing every shot. This was particularly noticeable in low light and when using the 2x TC.
There's definitely an improvement over the A1, but I agree with you it's not overwhelming. At some level that shows how good the original A1 was, and on another it shows Sony was lazy with this release and just dialed it in. The AI chip seems to have had no changes to how it works since the late 2022 release of the A7RV. For a flagship camera I expect it to have more resources invested in bringing it to the cutting edge, and like you said, its clear they just took all of the parts off of the shelf and rolled a slightly updated A1II out that frankly could have been released way back with the A7RV.
My only guess is that Sony got very focused on the A9III and global shutter and felt they had a bigger lead on Canon and Nikon and by the time it was clear they didn't, it was too late to update the roadmap on the A1II. That said, it's not like the A9 to A9II leap was really much of anything either, so I guess not too surprising.
Overall though I can't complain. Going back to using my nephew's A1 after using my A1II was a bit more noticeable of a downward jump than I had figured. You really get used to the better ergonomics and while the eye-AF improvements are subtle there's no denying the results he and I got--I had way more "keeper" shots in marginal conditions than he did. When conditions are ideal, the gap was less noticeable.
p.2 #3 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
arbitrage wrote:
All I know is the Canon AI training is way ahead of this. But similar to the A1 vs A1II, when you have a bird in a good location with good pose/head angle they all do great. But the Canon can figure out things are birds in the oddest locations and positions, small in the frame, obscured by lots of stuff etc. It is just that much better.
But I'd still take a Sony for BIF over the R5II. Although Canon is pretty close in that area also.
So I think Sony can improve because I've seen better. I don't know if they would ever do a FW update that included new training for the AI subject recognition? I certainly won't expect it or hold my breath. ...Show more →
Is it just me or is the Nikon Z8/9 also better than Sony? I have no recent Canon experience, but I am finding the Z8 to be much better at finding stuff and holding it that the A1. I have A1 II on order and was hoping that it would solve the problem but not looking like it.
p.2 #4 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
billsnature wrote:
Is it just me or is the Nikon Z8/9 also better than Sony? I have no recent Canon experience, but I am finding the Z8 to be much better at finding stuff and holding it that the A1. I have A1 II on order and was hoping that it would solve the problem but not looking like it.
Everyone I know and trust that has used both would not agree with that--they all give the OLD A1 the edge, and while the A1II is no great leap forward it is a noticeable improvement over the original A1. Now, will a new Z9II be better? Odds would seem to indicate yes. But you never know until it's released.
Regardless, competition is good for all of us as all of the cameras will keep getting better.
p.2 #5 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
billsnature wrote:
Is it just me or is the Nikon Z8/9 also better than Sony? I have no recent Canon experience, but I am finding the Z8 to be much better at finding stuff and holding it that the A1. I have A1 II on order and was hoping that it would solve the problem but not looking like it.
If we are talking just about the Eye-AF then Nikon may be a bit better but it isn't as obvious as Canon's lead. I think certain birds Sony is better than Nikon and other birds Nikon is better. But it has been a good while since I shot Nikon Z8/Z9 and I haven't compared them back to back with A1II so I'm not exactly sure??
p.2 #6 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
Curious what others have set the "Tracking Persistence Lvl" setting to under the detailed BIRD options?
I had read in the Sony AF guide that setting it to "1" was helpful when you are doing birds taking off as it will quickly shift to the bird coming at you instead of lagging back and maybe focusing on the perch still.
This setting may be part of my problem of jumping to foreground and I will experiment with setting it higher next time I go out to shoot.
p.2 #8 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
arbitrage wrote:
Curious what others have set the "Tracking Persistence Lvl" setting to under the detailed BIRD options?
I had read in the Sony AF guide that setting it to "1" was helpful when you are doing birds taking off as it will quickly shift to the bird coming at you instead of lagging back and maybe focusing on the perch still.
This setting may be part of my problem of jumping to foreground and I will experiment with setting it higher next time I go out to shoot.
Hmm, I actually have mine set to 5. That would be why mine doesn't jump around. Once it's on the bird, it really sticks. I personally have found that no camera is very good at predicting and tracking motion directly towards you, and I'm always disappointed with those shots, vs. when the bird or other subject flys off at an angle. Keeping that setting on 5 keeps it on the bird as it moves around, vs. jumping to something else.
The wide shift range is why I can use the X-Small focus spot and as long as I get it anywhere on the bird, 95% of the time it will then find the head and eye. At least that's my theory. The instructions as always are rather dense and poorly translated to Engrish.
p.2 #9 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
jhapeman wrote:
Hmm, I actually have mine set to 5. That would be why mine doesn't jump around. Once it's on the bird, it really sticks. I personally have found that no camera is very good at predicting and tracking motion directly towards you, and I'm always disappointed with those shots, vs. when the bird or other subject flys off at an angle. Keeping that setting on 5 keeps it on the bird as it moves around, vs. jumping to something else.
The wide shift range is why I can use the X-Small focus spot and as long as I get it anywhere on the bird, 95% of the time it will then find the head and eye. At least that's my theory. The instructions as always are rather dense and poorly translated to Engrish. ...Show more →
Sounds like it is going to be a choice of what we want to work better. At a setting of 1 for Persistence the camera has been really, really good at getting very fast passerines launching straight at me. Usually lags for 2 frames (at 30FPS) and then catches up and can hold it for the rest of the launch sequence.
But not so good at sticking in the other scenarios I've described in the OP.
I will play around with this more and do some back to back setting testing to see if Persistence at 5 helps my issue in the OP.
Yeah, I've been playing with that Shift Range feature and it has some powerful effect you can take advantage of. It only works in the Tracking versions of the AF modes so I was using a combination of Small Flex no tracking to target a small owlet under mom and then switching to a Small Flex Tracking on my other back button when I wanted it to jump up to mom's eyes without moving the camera position/framing. Worked great.
p.2 #10 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
arbitrage wrote:
Sounds like it is going to be a choice of what we want to work better. At a setting of 1 for Persistence the camera has been really, really good at getting very fast passerines launching straight at me. Usually lags for 2 frames (at 30FPS) and then catches up and can hold it for the rest of the launch sequence.
But not so good at sticking in the other scenarios I've described in the OP.
I will play around with this more and do some back to back setting testing to see if Persistence at 5 helps my issue in the OP.
Yeah, I've been playing with that Shift Range feature and it has some powerful effect you can take advantage of. It only works in the Tracking versions of the AF modes so I was using a combination of Small Flex no tracking to target a small owlet under mom and then switching to a Small Flex Tracking on my other back button when I wanted it to jump up to mom's eyes without moving the camera position/framing. Worked great....Show more →
Ever since the A9III I've just been using tracking AF only, and I switch between Zone and X-Small spot, or in some cases like hummingbirds, I might use wide instead of zone. I guess I've felt there's no downside to being on tracking AF-C all of the time.
I actually get somewhat similar results when the bird does fly towards me with it set to 5; it just seems to not be as good as locking on the eye so if the DOF is shallow I get a lower success rate on pure eye focus. Maybe fiddling with that one to find a compromise will do the trick?
p.2 #11 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
Interesting. Might give this a try. Applicable to a9iii as well?
jhapeman wrote:
Hmm, I actually have mine set to 5. That would be why mine doesn't jump around. Once it's on the bird, it really sticks. I personally have found that no camera is very good at predicting and tracking motion directly towards you, and I'm always disappointed with those shots, vs. when the bird or other subject flys off at an angle. Keeping that setting on 5 keeps it on the bird as it moves around, vs. jumping to something else.
The wide shift range is why I can use the X-Small focus spot and as long as I get it anywhere on the bird, 95% of the time it will then find the head and eye. At least that's my theory. The instructions as always are rather dense and poorly translated to Engrish. ...Show more →
p.2 #12 · The pros and cons of the A1II and A9III AF
twodees wrote:
Interesting. Might give this a try. Applicable to a9iii as well?
Yes, that's how I have both my A1II's set up and my A9III. Given that it is apparently the exact same AI AF system, it seemed logical and they seem to function the same with those settings.
