I recently sold my Leica M6 thinking I will never shoot film again. By chance, I bought a Contax Zeiss lenses that lead me to buy a Contax 139. Then, I couldn't resist shooting film again (I used to be a film shooter primary).
In my film days, I primarily shot the Zeiss Ikon ZM and kept my M6 as a backup. I don't like the M6 because the battery door hurts my finger when holding the camera for a long time. I want the right side of the camera to be uncluttered as possible. This lead me to the M4 because it has the quick load and the film rewind lever. I also don't want the timer lever, and the M4-2 is the only cheap option besides the M-A without the timer? I don't know the history of Leica well enough to know the difference between M4 and M4-2. I heard the M4-2 is of a different manufacturer philosophy, but not sure how it effect the feel of the camera. The M4-2 seems to be a couple hundred dollars more than the M4 on ebay now.
Can anyone give me some input on this? Thanks in advance!
I own both. The M4 is from 1968 and was built with brass gears and the older philosophy of fitting each piece. The M4-2 is the camera that really saved Leica. By the mid 1970's Leica had invested heavily in the SL and couldn't compete with the SLR's coming out of Japan. The decision was made to move manufacturing to Canada, reducing labor cost and moving to a different manufacturing process. The M5 is a great camera but complicated and expensive to build. Leica decided to return to the M4 body design for the new camera. The first change was to move from brass to steel gears. Steel gears were stronger and able to take the stress of a motor winder. They were also easier to drop in place without a lot of hand fitting. The M4-2 was also the first M camera to incorporate a hot shoe. The rangefinder was simplified by removing a condenser that reduces flare in certain lighting situations. The self timer was removed to save cost.
The initial batch was less than a rousing success. The all new steel gears would jam and lock up the camera. Adjustments were made and the design is still used in the latest film cameras.
The biggest bugaboo with the M4-2 is the aging, brittle plastic used in the flash block for both the M and X syncs on the back of the camera and the hot shoe. It's recommended not to use flash plugs. They can catch on clothing and pull the socket out. I had mine replaced with a 3D printed nylon block from Midnight Camera based in Hong Kong. I don't know if he is still making them but it's worth a look.
I love my M4-2! I use it more than any other camera. The viewfinder is bright and not cluttered with a lot of frame lines. It has a nice solid feel and when I had it serviced, replaced the articulated advance lever with a solid MP style one.
I recently bought a Artizlab 35 1.4 Classic. It's a copy of the late 1960's Summilux 35 V2. I have been using it with the M4 and it's like stepping back in time.
I hope this helps.
ocean2059 wrote:
I don't know if 28mm frame marking in the rangefinder is important to you (OP). If it is, neither M4 nor M4-2 has it. Leica implemented that in M4-P.
You can just use the entire finder with a 28. I did that with my M2 and it was fine. Evan when I had a M6 with the 28 frame lines, I still preferred an accessory finder.
madNbad wrote:
You can just use the entire finder with a 28. I did that with my M2 and it was fine. Evan when I had a M6 with the 28 frame lines, I still preferred an accessory finder.
ocean2059 wrote:
I don't know if 28mm frame marking in the rangefinder is important to you (OP). If it is, neither M4 nor M4-2 has it. Leica implemented that in M4-P.
Hi, I am primary a 35mm shooter. I will love to have a range finder with just one 35mm frameline.
Hi madNbad, thank you very much for the detail explanation. If I understand you correctly, there aren't much difference between the M4 and the M4-2 aside from the flash sync? I don't use flash at all. I also bought the Artizlab 35mm 1.4 (although I also have the steel rim reissue). I will love to shoot with the combination of 35mm 1.4 and the M4(-2). I tried it with my Zeiss Ikon, and it is very enjoyable.
mikegao wrote:
Hi madNbad, thank you very much for the detail explanation. If I understand you correctly, there aren't much difference between the M4 and the M4-2 aside from the flash sync? I don't use flash at all. I also bought the Artizlab 35mm 1.4 (although I also have the steel rim reissue). I will love to shoot with the combination of 35mm 1.4 and the M4(-2). I tried it with my Zeiss Ikon, and it is very enjoyable.
Either one would be a good choice. The M4's build quality is a bit better and it has a finder that is less likely to flare. The M4-2 has a utilitarian, almost tool like feel that just is fun to use.
I don't know if you would want to add a grip but I tried just about everyone on the market and found the Leica 14405 grip to be the best pf the bunch.
Good luck and see you in the "Films Not Dead" forum.
If M4-2 is more expensive, I would look to get a nice M4. The Wetzlar cameras are the pinnacle of the M series. If I was buying one I would try to source one from one of the established used Leica dealers instead of a private sale on ebay. At least in Europe I do not see much of a difference between dealer prices and ebay prices.
I own a M4-2 which I purchased from a friend of mine a few years ago. I second what madNbad wrote earlier, and to me the M4-2 is treated a bit like an ugly duckling in the Leica community since it was made in Canada, and where Leica made price cuts compared to the original M4. I read that third party repair shops don't like the M4-2 much since specific parts seem more affected to break easily even during repair. This said, I only made excellent experience with my M4-2 which to me only differs from my M6 non-TTL by not having an internal light meter. I never used the flash hot shoe of my M4-2 camera either. I covered my two flash ports with bronze metal flash sockets sold on ebay. Cool looking and fit very rigidly.
I bought my M4-2 from Huss in the fall of 2022. The replacement flash block from Midnight Camera Repair arrived in January of 2023. I took the camera to a local shop to have the flash block installed. The owner became exceeding ill from long COVID and the camera sat for months before I was able to retrieve it. When I did pick it up, the rivet that attaches the articulated plastic tip of the advance lever had broken. Fortunately, I had just purchased a solid MP style advance lever (also from Huss) and had it installed at a different shop before leaving on a cross country road trip.
When we returned, at the end of June in 2023, I sent the camera to Don Goldberg at DAG Camera Repair. He serviced the camera, installed and adjusted the flash block, plus a M3 style lens release collar. In his notes he stated that someone had "tampered with" the camera and he had replaced some small parts.
I have owned several different M cameras including a M6 TTL Millennium that was upgraded at the factory. Both the M4 and the M4-2 have been my favorites.
Actually my first darkroom experience to make silver gelatin prints derived from 35 mm negatives taken with a M4. One of my technicians during my PhD time in the late 90s in Germany owned the M4 and introduced me to film photography and darkroom work (he was also responsible for making slides for presentations in the faculty-based auditorium of the University). At the time Leica M was not on my radar (I took photos with simple SLR cameras). It should take nearly 20 years later until I set up my own darkroom and purchased my first M-camera (the M6).
The technician is long retired, but I was still sporadically in touch with him even after I moved abroad. Last time I asked him if he was interested to sell me one of his M4 cameras (he owned two I remember). He didn't think twice and told me he would never sell them or give them away . I think people who used the M4 as main camera are not leaving it behind.
I still have the silver gelatin print I printed together with him in this darkroom on letter-size. It looks like new and is the B&W photo print of an ammonite fossil. My first Leica photo and darkroom print . Photo of the print below.
madNbad wrote:
I bought my M4-2 from Huss in the fall of 2022. The replacement flash block from Midnight Camera Repair arrived in January of 2023. I took the camera to a local shop to have the flash block installed. The owner became exceeding ill from long COVID and the camera sat for months before I was able to retrieve it. When I did pick it up, the rivet that attaches the articulated plastic tip of the advance lever had broken. Fortunately, I had just purchased a solid MP style advance lever (also from Huss) and had it installed at a different shop before leaving on a cross country road trip.
When we returned, at the end of June in 2023, I sent the camera to Don Goldberg at DAG Camera Repair. He serviced the camera, installed and adjusted the flash block, plus a M3 style lens release collar. In his notes he stated that someone had "tampered with" the camera and he had replaced some small parts.
I have owned several different M cameras including a M6 TTL Millennium that was upgraded at the factory. Both the M4 and the M4-2 have been my favorites.
Just want to point out that is a super rare red dot M4-2. The red dot became a standard item on the M4-P and hardly any of the M4-2 cameras have it. It is not a sticker but a metal disc inserted into the vulcanite.
I actually reached out to Leica Germany to ask them if they knew how many were made etc. the extremely ‘helpful’ rep replied that they had no idea… I feel that was more of a could not be bothered to check answer but I could be wrong…
Anyway Michael promised to sell it back to me if he ever is foolish enough to get a new M6, so back off the rest of you!
The mystery Red Dot! When Portland Camera Service closed in the spring of 2023, the owners spouse opened the store so customers could pick up their cameras that had been left for repair. There was a guy, who was scoping out the store for deals. When the M4-2 landed on the counter he asked if it was a M4-P. When I told him it was a M4-2, he pulled out his phone and asked if he could take some pictures of it because he had never seen one with the red dot. He asked me if I wanted to sell it and I turned him down.
When I sent it DAG, I asked him about it. His answer was, some of them had a red dot, most didn't. I did learn it doesn't cover the self timer hole. They are lower on the body.
The desire for a new/newer M6/MP has passed. I picked up a older M6 at a shop the other day, looked through the finder and saw all those frame lines.
ottokbre wrote:
My M4 had a blue cast in the viewfinder due to the coating. Is that common on the M4-2 also?
I think there are some brass top plate M4-2s out there, before they switched to magnesium.
Either way I would go on aesthetics. I love both finishes.
All of the M4-2's and some of the early M4-P's had brass top plates. Leica started using zinc for the top plate on the M4-P about a year after production started. The early M4-P's with the brass top plates can be identified by the recessed finder window. The later M4-P's and M6's have flush windows. Zinc was used for all of the M6 and M6 TTL's until 1999 when the Millennium editions was introduced binging back both the brass top plate and black paint.
Leica may have added a coating to the later M4's. My 1968 model doesn't seem to have it. The M4-2 looks like it was added sometime after production.
. I think people who used the M4 as main camera are not leaving it behind. 
. Photo of the print below.
