ChrisMak wrote:
I am not sure how I can see Sigma bringing a 800mm f6.3 lens that is lighter and less expensive than the Nikon Z800PF, unless they have designed a lens that approaches 800mm and f6.3 but is in reality somewhere inbetween 700-800mm and between f6.3-f7.1?
When in history have Sigma ever been as expensive as the OEM manufacturers. If the US price is $6.5K for the NIkon (PF attracts a premium), the Sigma will be $5K max IMO at launch and readily found much cheaper within 6-12 months.
I don’t think you necessarily need a TC on such a slow lens which is why I didn’t mention it, but def there are fps applications—small birds like hummers for example.
mogul wrote:
FPS and TC compatibility are stumbling blocks, but do you need a TC or faster than 15fps with an 800mm lens?
To me, the TC capability is about having options. Reach is often an issue when taking bird photos by me. There are people who will use a TC 2X on a 600mm at times. So even if I don't need 1,120mm all of the time (800mm + TC 1.4), it's nice to know it's an option I have. Especially when we are most likely talking about a 4k + lens and 5lb + lens.
For shorter lenses like the Sigma 500mm f5.6 I wouldn't even consider it without TC support.
It's already a zoom lens at f/8 so I would not expect particularly good IQ with any TC. A high grade 600/4 with a matching TC can indeed produce fine images, but it's an f/4 prime lens.
For the rumored Sony 400-800 f8 I am less interested in TC support than the rumored Sigma 800mm f6.3. The Sony will be 2/3 of a stop darker already, the ability to zoom will add flexibility, and it's price will probably be less than the Sigma. Granted TC support for the 400-800 could be useful to people doing video. With video, you may very well want to be at a smaller f stop for greater depth of field and a slower shutter speed, assuming the IQ is adequate with the TC.
Not sure that quote tells us much. Which lens are they considering super sharp? If you're comparing the 400-800mm to a 600mm f4 I am not surprised to hear the 600mm is sharper. Now if you tell me the 200-600 with TC 1.4 is sharper than the 400-800mm then I agree this lens will not be exciting to me.
DWOfPaul wrote:
Not sure that quote tells us much. Which lens are they considering super sharp? If you're comparing the 400-800mm to a 600mm f4 I am not surprised to hear the 600mm is sharper. Now if you tell me the 200-600 with TC 1.4 is sharper than the 400-800mm then I agree this lens will not be exciting to me.
Mattstig wrote:
Be cool if sony made a 800 6.3, without the limitations.
Yes, of course that would be great, it would be fascinating to see what Sony could make of such a lens, but that would also take another mentality than that which is current at Sony. They choose to keep the great divide between lenses for the common consumer classes and lenses for the serious professional photographers. All very understandable and great commercial sense no doubt, but it leads to rather bit boring lens releases.
In hindsight the 300GM may well turn out to be the most exiting telelens of the decade for Sony users.
Personally, the only exciting prospect I see as at all realistic for the coming years as far as telelenses go, is a 400mm f2.8TC GM lens. Knowing Sony, it will fit in the <13.000,- serious professional photographer price class, but that would be an exciting lens if Sony manages to shave off some size and weight.
I won't be spending on an A1mkII, a 300GM or a 400-800G lens. I am just saving up for when such a 400TC comes.
I don't expect the 400-800 to really be a desirable lens for users that already have the 200-600G, I see it more as an alternative for those that are in the market for such a type of slow zoom lens. More choice is always good.
My biggest problem is light levels when using a long lens so anything slower than the current f/6.3 of the 2-6 is really not of much interest to me. There's only so much magic that denoise software can offer.
The 300/2xTC seems to be a good compromise between slower, cheaper telezooms and the $12K+ tele primes that are financially out of reach for most non-professionals, so if Sony can give us a bit more in that mid-price, mid-speed area then I'll be a potential customer. The Sigma 500/5.6 is the right idea but has its Sony-imposed limits.
wordfool wrote:
My biggest problem is light levels when using a long lens so anything slower than the current f/6.3 of the 2-6 is really not of much interest to me. There's only so much magic that denoise software can offer.
The 300/2xTC seems to be a good compromise between slower, cheaper telezooms and the $12K+ tele primes that are financially out of reach for most non-professionals, so if Sony can give us a bit more in that mid-price, mid-speed area then I'll be a potential customer. The Sigma 500/5.6 is the right idea but has its Sony-imposed limits.
Yes, f6.3 at 600mm is limiting, as is f8 at 800mm. My favorite aperture at 600mm (for allround use, not in low light) is f5, my favorite aperture at 800mm would be f6.3. I thought about the Nikon Z800mm f6.3 long and hard, but being "stuck" at 800mm held me off.
I agree with the exorbitant prices for the professional lenses, and would love to see Sony populate the middle ground, but things are as they are, they dictate the game.
After you have spent the sum on such an ultra expensive lens, you get a long time of enjoyment out of it. The reason I am still in the market for a (additional) telelens, is that I would like something more pratical than the 600GM for travel. I bought a 200-600G for that purpose but after the trip sold it again. It is a great lens for the money, but just too far behind the 600GM.
So unless going dual system, I don't see another option than to wait for a 400TC, that hás been rumored btw.
ChrisMak wrote:
After you have spent the sum on such an ultra expensive lens, you get a long time of enjoyment out of it. The reason I am still in the market for a (additional) telelens, is that I would like something more pratical than the 600GM for travel. I bought a 200-600G for that purpose but after the trip sold it again. It is a great lens for the money, but just too far behind the 600GM.
So unless going dual system, I don't see another option than to wait for a 400TC, that hás been rumored btw.
Did you consider the 300/2.8 with a TC, or are you not a fan of separate TCs on primes? I think even if I had $12K burning a hole in my bank account I'd probably still balk at the 600GM simply because of the size/weight factor making it a challenge for travel and my back. For now I'll probably solider on with the 2-6 for another season while dreaming of mythical new lenses from Sony, like a 400-600 f5.6 (something Tamron is rumored to have in the pipeline)
With Sony, Sigma et al all coming out with new long E-mount lenses perhaps it's a sign that we'll start catching up with the Nikon telephoto ecosystem
SAR saying the price is likely $2999 EURO. He doesn't know US price. He speculated maybe 2800?
Considering you can buy a 200-600 for 1900 brand new and then add the 1.4TC ($550 if you don't already own one) it may be a hard sell if it comes in at 2.5kg. Especially hard sell if it is slower than f/6.3 at the 600mm mark.
arbitrage wrote:
SAR saying the price is likely $2999 EURO. He doesn't know US price. He speculated maybe 2800?
Considering you can buy a 200-600 for 1900 brand new and then add the 1.4TC ($550 if you don't already own one) it may be a hard sell if it comes in at 2.5kg. Especially hard sell if it is slower than f/6.3 at the 600mm mark.
I fully expect it to be slower than f6.3 at 600mm. Show me any variable-aperture zoom that doesn't hit its smallest aperture very early on in the zoom range. The 2-6 hits f6.3 at 300mm IIRC.
Sounds like Sony think it's on par with 200-600 at that price (in comparison to 200-600 launch price). It's not for me, a 600mmTC is all I'm missing and I really don't care what any YTers say about big primes being dead now.
That cheaper (before taxes) US price won't last long the way things are going...
arbitrage wrote:
SAR saying the price is likely $2999 EURO. He doesn't know US price. He speculated maybe 2800?
arbitrage wrote:
SAR saying the price is likely $2999 EURO. He doesn't know US price. He speculated maybe 2800?
Considering you can buy a 200-600 for 1900 brand new and then add the 1.4TC ($550 if you don't already own one) it may be a hard sell if it comes in at 2.5kg. Especially hard sell if it is slower than f/6.3 at the 600mm mark.
It needs to be sharp or who cares what the price or weight are?
I am not sure what to make of the "reports" from testers that the 400-800 "is not very sharp". Compared to what? I don't recall Sony has made an unsharp lens in the last several years. f8 can be a problem for BIF but if the long end is sharp, I will get one for airshows.
this might be better than 2-6 overall, the 2-6 MTF drop is quite significant with the 1.4X TC on 50 mega pixel sensor.... this one may have descent sharpness at 800mm.... but f/8 is really slow.
I wish Sony had opted for a light 800 f/6.3 like Nikon as a speciality lens.... we don't really need 600 f/5.6 as the 300 GM + 2X makes that combo
$3000 USD a bit steep for such lens, it's not that desirable to hold resale values.
I think all Sony had to do was make sure the 400-800, at 800 beats the 200-600 with 1.4TC.
This gives them a cheap 800, just like Canon.
It's 800 f8 compared to the 840 f9 of the 200-600/1.4TC.
Close enough in length, the slight speed advantage probably wins more buyers.
If it was much better at 800 compared to the 200-600/1.4TC they could have lured more
200-600 owners. They'll get many anyway.
Maybe better business case to save development and manufacturing costs to just beat the 200-600/1.4TC.
