cbbr wrote:
One of my kiddo's is soon to graduate college. She is very artistic and loves to shoot film. Around a roll a week. She has been shooting an old Nikon body and my lenses, but really wants a Leica. I know nothing about them. Nothing.
She is using AF, but can live without it. She shoots mostly between 24mm & 50mm. She shoots both manual and auto, but would likely like to have the "A" option & a good meter.
So if you were to buy a "beginner" Leica and a lens - what would be your go-to option?
The best thing would be to have her try out a Leica. Some people love rangefinder cameras, others just cannot get along with them. If she is used to AF, it is a huge change!
Perhaps someone here can show her theirs, so she can get a feel of how to use one? Or is there a store she can go to depending on where she lives? You could see if she is close to any where she could try one out.
My main squeeze these days is an M11, but my "beginner" Leica was a Barnack with a 1:3.5/50 lens, followed by a CL with the 1:2/40 Summicron and 1:2/40 Elmar-C. Compared to an M lots of things on the Barnack are indeed fiddly (film loading, separate RF and framing windows, no metering, and separate main and slow-speed shutter speed dials). Then again they're still pretty direct to use, encouraging Sunny-16 and certain deliberate approach, while also tending to be a fair amount less expensive than a film M body, plus you even have the option of all manner of clones from Japan, the USSR, etc. I currently have a IIIa and a IIf on the shelf and I still enjoy tossing (ok: finagling) the occasional roll of film into them.
henk.sijgers wrote:
My main squeeze these days is an M11, but my "beginner" Leica was a Barnack with a 1:3.5/50 lens, followed by a CL with the 1:2/40 Summicron and 1:2/40 Elmar-C. Compared to an M lots of things on the Barnack are indeed fiddly (film loading, separate RF and framing windows, no metering, and separate main and slow-speed shutter speed dials). Then again they're still pretty direct to use, encouraging Sunny-16 and certain deliberate approach, while also tending to be a fair amount less expensive than a film M body, plus you even have the option of all manner of clones from Japan, the USSR, etc. I currently have a IIIa and a IIf on the shelf and I still enjoy tossing (ok: finagling) the occasional roll of film into them....Show more →
I love the IIIc for being able to take easily multiple exposures on the same frame. M cameras are not made to do this easily if at all.
Grenache wrote:
Rangefinders are what people generally think of, when they think “Leica,” but shooting with one is totally different from shooting with an SLR. It is not for everyone. I love the lenses but could not get my head around using the cameras.
Leica also made lovely SLR cameras. The R line. An R6 would get you metering and is a lovely camera, with a stellar viewfinder. The Summicron f/2 set of lenses would be semi-reasonable in price, though they are harder to find these days, as Hollywood cinematographers have been grabbing them up.
Jim
The Summicron 50 f/2 is reasonably priced here still but the 35 went nuts some years ago. I bought one for $600 and sold it a year later for $1500.
Get a simple classic, Leica M4 (fast load, no spool to deal with) with a 50mm Summicron if a RF is a must. Pair it with a Voigtlander VC Meter II in the hot shoe and you basically get an M6 with the same style readout of the meter and save $ for film. No electronics other than the removable meter. For DSLR get a Leica R6 that’s basically a DSLR version or the M6. Only electronics are for the meter. Camera works fine without batteries.
My recommendation would be an M6. All the modern comforts - meter, easy film loading and a full range of frame lines 28mm and up. For the lens, I would go with a Voigtlander lens(es) in the 28mm to 50mm range until she knows what she prefers in terms of focal length and size / max aperture. You're looking at around $3k to $4k for the body and a lens. If you want to spend less, then look for an M2 or an M4. Both great cameras, the M2 is a little slower to load and rewind film and you will need an external meter for both. You might be able to snag a body and a used lens for around $2k.
Just pick up any Leica M with a recent CLA. Since it's for a beginner, I'd recommend one with an internal meter. If the budget allows, go for an MP. It’s the best option, and you won’t have to worry about upgrading later!
Agree that camera with recent CLA is a must for beginner. If it’s not stated by the seller, then you need to prepare a few hundred bucks for CLA. Given that she shot one roll per week, a well-serviced body will ensure accurate shutter speed and metering for at least a couple of years.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The “A” setting is overrated!
Just pick up any Leica M with a recent CLA. Since it's for a beginner, I'd recommend one with an internal meter. If the budget allows, go for an MP. It’s the best option, and you won’t have to worry about upgrading later!
jackalooope wrote:
Agree that camera with recent CLA is a must for beginner. If it’s not stated by the seller, then you need to prepare a few hundred bucks for CLA. Given that she shot one roll per week, a well-serviced body will ensure accurate shutter speed and metering for at least a couple of years.
True but depends on the condition of the used M and its sales price. I never got one with recent CLA performed but the price was very good - I still came out good by adding the cost of CLA myself. Regarding usage, from my experience the whole CLA thing is a bit blown out of proportion and might also depend on the camera model how often it is needed. I never needed more than one CLA per camera so far in > 10 years with different M and LTM cameras. But what broke twice and needed to be fixed were shutters. It occurred on my M3 and on my IIIc cameras. Not surprising due to their age. Was told that the repair shop seen many M3 cameras coming in with the same shutter issue in recent years. The shutter there is simply exceeding its life time.
retrofocus wrote:
True but depends on the condition of the used M and its sales price. I never got one with recent CLA performed but the price was very good - I still came out good by adding the cost of CLA myself. Regarding usage, from my experience the whole CLA thing is a bit blown out of proportion and might also depend on the camera model how often it is needed. I never needed more than one CLA per camera so far in > 10 years with different M and LTM cameras. But what broke twice and needed to be fixed were shutters. It occurred on my M3 and on my IIIc cameras. Not surprising due to their age. Was told that the repair shop seen many M3 cameras coming in with the same shutter issue in recent years. The shutter there is simply exceeding its life time. ...Show more →
Thanks for sharing. I agree that the condition and price of the camera are important factors, and it also depends on how frequently you use it. I use my M-A casually, shooting only a handful of rolls per year, so I don't see the need for regular maintenance for this casually-used new machine. Plus, shipping for CLA always carries some risk of damage or loss. However, for someone with a much older model and uses their camera heavily, regular CLA can be a smart preventive measure.
If the camera hasn’t had a CLA in 10-15 years, it’s definitely necessary, in my opinion. Even if it hasn't been used much, mechanical components don’t do well sitting idle. The problem is that a proper CLA, essentially an overhaul, can cost around $500. That’s why I think it;s important to mention that it’s an expensive service..
Fred Miranda wrote:
If the camera hasn’t had a CLA in 10-15 years, it’s definitely necessary, in my opinion. Even if it hasn't been used much, mechanical components don’t do well sitting idle. The problem is that a proper CLA, essentially an overhaul, can cost around $500. That’s why I think it;s important to mention that it’s an expensive service..
It is true that CLA depends also on the usage of the camera and how it is transported regarding vibrations and shaking, potential drops etc. For less often and average usage on weekends for example and sporadic travel I don't think that a CLA needs to be done in 10-15 years - at least not from my experience. What is more useful to da - as with any camera - is to use the shutter by pressing the shutter button 10-20 times on rarely used cameras at least once a year. This avoids parts to grease up. Same is true for manual focus lenses - moving the aperture blade back and forward a few times on less often used lenses is a good precaution, too.
Just pick up any Leica M with a recent CLA. Since it's for a beginner, I'd recommend one with an internal meter. If the budget allows, go for an MP. It’s the best option, and you won’t have to worry about upgrading later!
I got the M5,6,7,P
7 is the only one with the “A” setting. And the one I use the most because of it. By far the best shooter because of it, and by turning the shutter speed dial away from Auto, you can pretend it’s a 6 or P… two cameras in one!
A dirty little secret is the electronic shutter on the 7 is far more accurate than the mechanical ones, and it is quieter. (None are loud but I am picking the nits here)
7 is the only one with the “A” setting. And the one I use the most because of it. By far the best shooter because of it, and by turning the shutter speed dial away from Auto, you can pretend it’s a 6 or P… two cameras in one!
A dirty little secret is the electronic shutter on the 7 is far more accurate than the mechanical ones, and it is quieter. (None are loud but I am picking the nits here)
+1. I own the M3, M4-2, classic M6 (non-TTL), and M7.
The one I use most often is the M6. Reason because it was my first M camera and I got very used working with it - the M7 was my second one. I prefer the meter diodes/arrows of the M6 more than the ones in the M7. Too much blinking sometimes in the M7 display for my taste - wish I could by button push disable the automatic DIN/ASA readout. But A-mode is great to have especially when fast shooting is needed for example during a parade or other event. I admit that I rarely used it though for my preferred photo scenes which tend to be more static. So far I haven't seen any difference between automated M7 shutter and the mechanical one in other M film cameras even this often comes up for some reason as culprit of the M7 - I never ran into problems here. And yes, the M7 shutter is quieter.
philip_pj wrote:
Matt Osborne looks at the options. M6 not MP, is his verdict. Some decent footage of earlier models.
I'm bored of him. He's becoming the new Ken Rockwell.
Reason 1...it is like another Leica camera. Eemmm...duh...
Reason 2...all Ms take the same photos...errrmmm..duh...
And so on.
He's just doing clickbait now for his youtube scores.
He's a good photographer. The more you read and watch his stuff the more it basically shows how equipment can have very little effect on the output. But the videos are just not informative any more, just conflicting opinions or announcements from the Department of the Obvious.
panos.v wrote:
I'm bored of him. He's becoming the new Ken Rockwell.
Reason 1...it is like another Leica camera. Eemmm...duh...
Reason 2...all Ms take the same photos...errrmmm..duh...
And so on.
He's just doing clickbait now for his youtube scores.
He's a good photographer. The more you read and watch his stuff the more it basically shows how equipment can have very little effect on the output. But the videos are just not informative any more, just conflicting opinions or announcements from the Department of the Obvious.
I observed the same. He complies with the new YouTube algorithm to reward posters with at least one video upload a day. His content is now becoming more repetitive and showcasing constantly something new and how great it is only to see a few days later it is sold and replaced by something else new hyped up. His videos > 2 years ago had a much better quality and impact. I am now more selective which videos of him I am watching.
