danwu wrote:
I doubt it's DMF either because I always turn the DMF off.
I don't know how much I can trust the display of the focus from Sony software, but here is the out-of-focus photo with focus point displayed.
If it is out of focus then usually there is some part of the bird in focus - but it looks to be almost evenly out of focus so is it motion blur or heat haze. A closer look at the full resolution image should tell you which it is.
johnsigs wrote:
Thanks for posting the settings ,I never use the small spot, will give that a try. There are so many more settings to try ,even if you go to say bird , there are settings in there, makes my head spin Lol.
Just wanted to thank you again, your settings helped, I also found an excellent guide on the Sony help page that explains a lot.
This is a tough read but good if you can digest it. The part that directly addresses what I was trying to describe is in the screen capture I've attached. I'm almost always looking for one subject in the frame, so I'm not worried about it jumping to an alternate bird or animal. Using the small or extra small tracking spot with the tracking shift range set to 5 wide is what allows you and the camera to work together to find that subject fast and then lock in on it.
I just returned from a birding trip with the a1ii and I found the focusing to be superb. Not perfect, but noticeably better than my a1, which already was pretty good. However, the settings on the two cameras are sufficiently different that I don't feel like I maxed out what the a1ii can do. I think it's critically important to learn the settings well, b/c a missed setting can be disastrous in terms of getting the money shot.
One setting that I've found works really well is to set up a custom setting (1, for example) for birding, set SS, Aperture, etc., remove all focus area settings except the tracking focus area, and map focus area settings to the control wheel. Rotating the wheel cycles the focus area settings up or down, so to speak, depending on the direction I rotate the wheel, and this makes it easy to quickly change the focus area to extra small for a bird hiding in the brush to zone or wide for a bird cruising in the sky.
I still have more work to do, but by really concentrating on effectively utilizing the settings, I've been able to get some great images that are beyond what even the a1 can do.
I spent half a day photographing sea ducks at Barnegat Light in NJ. This is always a test of the AF system even though it's not BIF as the ducks are bobbing around a lot in the water. The A1 would typically lose the bird's eye in these situations. This single shot is from a series of just under 200 shots I took of this Black Scoter as he worked his way towards me. Not a single shot in this entire sequence did the A1II lose focus on the duck's eye, and this is a case of a real challenge of a black eye on a black bird. Even when he turned his head so the eye was mostly obscured and didn't have a specular highlight, the A1II never lost focus. This is a bird the A1 would have really struggled with.
jhapeman wrote:
I spent half a day photographing sea ducks at Barnegat Light in NJ. This is always a test of the AF system even though it's not BIF as the ducks are bobbing around a lot in the water. The A1 would typically lose the bird's eye in these situations. This single shot is from a series of just under 200 shots I took of this Black Scoter as he worked his way towards me. Not a single shot in this entire sequence did the A1II lose focus on the duck's eye, and this is a case of a real challenge of a black eye on a black bird. Even when he turned his head so the eye was mostly obscured and didn't have a specular highlight, the A1II never lost focus. This is a bird the A1 would have really struggled with.
I believe Sony has stated that Eye AF is 50% better with the A1II vs the A1. It would be nice to have that improvement for sure.
If I were to buy a body anew, I could get exited over the many improvements that the A1II has over the A1.
But since I already have the A1, and the upgrade price will be somewhere in the 3500-4000 region, I tell myself that I only need 3-5 sharp images in a series and not 200, because it's true that regarding Eye AF, if you want it perfect, the A1 will produce only a percentage in perfect focus, not all.
If I were certain the A1II will be supported with firmware in the coming 3-4 years to considerably improve it further, I would take the plunge, but for now, knowing that firmware is not a Sony priority, I am thinking of letting the A1II go by and enjoy the A1 until the next body, a real successor, comes in 4 years.
Shouldn’t this reflect improved performance on BIF too? I would expect similar improvement of the keeper rate in terms of having more photos focused on the eye rather than on the body, tail or the closest wing.
Is this something you have observed?
jhapeman wrote:
I spent half a day photographing sea ducks at Barnegat Light in NJ. This is always a test of the AF system even though it's not BIF as the ducks are bobbing around a lot in the water. The A1 would typically lose the bird's eye in these situations. This single shot is from a series of just under 200 shots I took of this Black Scoter as he worked his way towards me. Not a single shot in this entire sequence did the A1II lose focus on the duck's eye, and this is a case of a real challenge of a black eye on a black bird. Even when he turned his head so the eye was mostly obscured and didn't have a specular highlight, the A1II never lost focus. This is a bird the A1 would have really struggled with.
ChrisMak wrote:
I believe Sony has stated that Eye AF is 50% better with the A1II vs the A1. It would be nice to have that improvement for sure.
If I were to buy a body anew, I could get exited over the many improvements that the A1II has over the A1.
But since I already have the A1, and the upgrade price will be somewhere in the 3500-4000 region, I tell myself that I only need 3-5 sharp images in a series and not 200, because it's true that regarding Eye AF, if you want it perfect, the A1 will produce only a percentage in perfect focus, not all.
If I were certain the A1II will be supported with firmware in the coming 3-4 years to considerably improve it further, I would take the plunge, but for now, knowing that firmware is not a Sony priority, I am thinking of letting the A1II go by and enjoy the A1 until the next body, a real successor, comes in 4 years. ...Show more →
Yes, I would concur. It's not so huge of a change that it's a "must have" IMO. I'm fortunate enough that the upgrade cost is a non-issue for me and since this is my only hobby (no other big expenditures), I can spend the money and get it. The other big change is the precapture, which is changing the way I shoot. Lots more short bursts now right at the moment I want to capture. That actually means less total shots as I'm not spraying to catch a brief moment or spraying to get those few critically sharp images. I mostly retrained myself on this with the A9III, but I'm still perfecting it.
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baltmin wrote:
Shouldn’t this reflect improved performance on BIF too? I would expect similar improvement of the keeper rate in terms of having more photos focused on the eye rather than on the body, tail or the closest wing.
Is this something you have observed?
Oh I'm sure its a plus for BIF too but right now here on the east coast we've been having a cold snap and there's not exactly a lot of birds flying around to start with, let alone ones I'm interested in freezing my butt off just for a few photos. I don't do a ton of BIF images TBH, I like to catch other moments that also are fleeting and have a lot of moment, like singing, fighting, feeding, etc. All of those benefit from excellent AF and IMO more so than even BIF, because the background and foreground tend to be busier when the bird isn't flying and there's a lot to confuse the AF.
It’s a little unsettling to see pretty much daily someone on one of the FB A1 groups complaining about the AF of the A1 II vs. the A1 - particularly regarding birds.
I’m not about to cancel my preorder but just hoping they either don’t have their settings dialed in or that a firmware fix is in the works if it is actually a thing.
liggy wrote:
It’s a little unsettling to see pretty much daily someone on one of the FB A1 groups complaining about the AF of the A1 II vs. the A1 - particularly regarding birds.
I’m not about to cancel my preorder but just hoping they either don’t have their settings dialed in or that a firmware fix is in the works if it is actually a thing.
I'm actually baffled by it. It makes no sense to me. There's actually only a couple of people who have complained but I suspect that in some cases they haven't taken the time to learn how to configure the AI AF system for their type of shooting. You can't just pick it up and treat it like an A1. The whole AI system is totally new and has tons of different settings. It's also not a solution to every problem--you can't always expect it to just find a bird anywhere in the frame, for example, at least not when its a relatively small part of the field of view (although I do feel like that Sony could really improve the recognition algorithms for finding a bird in the frame--it can miss more than I feel it should and apparently more than Canon or Nikon will do in many cases).
It's possible there are some issues with specific lenses--the 200-600 is mentioned more than once, and that lens has been known to have issues on several cameras/firmware versions now. I guess we'll see as time goes on. That said, the photographers I know and respect for the quality of work all seem to be having no issues, so my gut tells me it's people failing to adapt and learn the new system and then blaming the camera because it doesn't work like their A1.
jhapeman wrote:
I'm actually baffled by it. It makes no sense to me. There's actually only a couple of people who have complained but I suspect that in some cases they haven't taken the time to learn how to configure the AI AF system for their type of shooting. You can't just pick it up and treat it like an A1. The whole AI system is totally new and has tons of different settings. It's also not a solution to every problem--you can't always expect it to just find a bird anywhere in the frame, for example, at least not when its a relatively small part of the field of view (although I do feel like that Sony could really improve the recognition algorithms for finding a bird in the frame--it can miss more than I feel it should and apparently more than Canon or Nikon will do in many cases).
It's possible there are some issues with specific lenses--the 200-600 is mentioned more than once, and that lens has been known to have issues on several cameras/firmware versions now. I guess we'll see as time goes on. That said, the photographers I know and respect for the quality of work all seem to be having no issues, so my gut tells me it's people failing to adapt and learn the new system and then blaming the camera because it doesn't work like their A1. ...Show more →
I’m with you on that and am proceeding with the assumption that it’s a settings issue. I noticed that most of the issues seem to be reported with the 200-600 which is my go-to long Sony lens.
I was happy with the A7RV AF and my hope is that the A1 II works like that but with the stacked sensor goodness of the A1.
Fingers crossed. It seems most folks here don’t seem to be having the issues and I do trust the FM crew.
liggy wrote:
I’m with you on that and am proceeding with the assumption that it’s a settings issue. I noticed that most of the issues seem to be reported with the 200-600 which is my go-to long Sony lens.
I was happy with the A7RV AF and my hope is that the A1 II works like that but with the stacked sensor goodness of the A1.
Fingers crossed. It seems most folks here don’t seem to be having the issues and I do trust the FM crew.
I think if you have used the AI AF system and have learned how to tweak it then you should be in great shape. When the A7RV was released in late 2022 I bought one and was blown away with how much it was an improvement over the A7RIV and how much it could compete with the A1 in terms finding bird/animal eyes and then tracking them. I sold it because I just couldn't deal with the slower shutter read out and VF blackout--the A9II and A1had spoiled me. I did take the time to learn how to tweak the AI AF settings, and that turned out to be very useful for the A9III when I got it last spring. Over the last year I have gotten very comfortable with how I configured that and how I use it, and that has translated very well to my A1II--my starting point was to configure my A1II identically to my A9III.
You are all absolutely on-the-money with the "it's a settings thing" comments. After a few outings with the A1 ii I clearly noticed some issues with dropping focus due to varying elements that either crossed the subject or moved into frame/moved while already in frame. It takes a few times of this happening to call it out for what it is, but the newly unveiled AI settings and split crossing/sensitivity settings can be adjusted to fix most of these issues.
I will say I am still dialing in my ideal settings and I can 100% say with confidence that I'll have to adjust based on environment and subject; this is not a 1-size fits all thing settings-wise. It's to the point where I hope we can, in the future, save multiple presets for our AI subject detection settings as custom profiles.
As I continue to tweak my camera, I hope I can dial in my ideal settings per environment and not conclude that we've got a defect present; however, right now it does seem to be a settings thing.
NP3Photo wrote:
You are all absolutely on-the-money with the "it's a settings thing" comments. After a few outings with the A1 ii I clearly noticed some issues with dropping focus due to varying elements that either crossed the subject or moved into frame/moved while already in frame. It takes a few times of this happening to call it out for what it is, but the newly unveiled AI settings and split crossing/sensitivity settings can be adjusted to fix most of these issues.
I will say I am still dialing in my ideal settings and I can 100% say with confidence that I'll have to adjust based on environment and subject; this is not a 1-size fits all thing settings-wise. It's to the point where I hope we can, in the future, save multiple presets for our AI subject detection settings as custom profiles.
As I continue to tweak my camera, I hope I can dial in my ideal settings per environment and not conclude that we've got a defect present; however, right now it does seem to be a settings thing....Show more →
One thing this highlights is that there is an opportunity for Sony to have some default settings that just work better. Like "Perched Birds," "Birds in Flight", etc. I guess they just expect us all to figure it out, but not everyone will. It's like a Mac vs. Linux. Not everyone wants to tweak every setting. That's why even Linux has distros for the less technically-inclined.
Im curious, if you care to elaborate, as to the situations and situational adjustments you’re making to the settings thus far.
NP3Photo wrote:
You are all absolutely on-the-money with the "it's a settings thing" comments. After a few outings with the A1 ii I clearly noticed some issues with dropping focus due to varying elements that either crossed the subject or moved into frame/moved while already in frame. It takes a few times of this happening to call it out for what it is, but the newly unveiled AI settings and split crossing/sensitivity settings can be adjusted to fix most of these issues.
I will say I am still dialing in my ideal settings and I can 100% say with confidence that I'll have to adjust based on environment and subject; this is not a 1-size fits all thing settings-wise. It's to the point where I hope we can, in the future, save multiple presets for our AI subject detection settings as custom profiles.
As I continue to tweak my camera, I hope I can dial in my ideal settings per environment and not conclude that we've got a defect present; however, right now it does seem to be a settings thing....Show more →
jhapeman wrote:
One thing this highlights is that there is an opportunity for Sony to have some default settings that just work better. Like "Perched Birds," "Birds in Flight", etc. I guess they just expect us all to figure it out, but not everyone will. It's like a Mac vs. Linux. Not everyone wants to tweak every setting. That's why even Linux has distros for the less technically-inclined.
I found this guide helpful with various example settings for each specific type of shooting, not sure if it has been posted before.
Yeah, I've read that. It's terrible writing though, looks like a very poor translation from what might have been much more intelligible Japanese. I was also making the point that they could have some presets for different use cases. They added "auto" for the eye recognition for example. A lot of people want that simple approach and there's no reason you can't have both that and the complicated abilities the camera already possesses.
I have a mixed feeling about the AFof the A1II for BIF. I'm not getting the same confidence as the A7RV, the number of birds not perfectly in focus is significant. (AF-C and med to high fps ) I haven't tried to tweak the AI settings, I never did it on the A7RV. I was expecting the AF to be better or at least as good as the A7RV in this case.
I did the update to the latest v2 firmware, and today I tried with the subject recognition set to bird (I was using auto until now). This doesn't seem to improve the keeper rate. This is with the 200-600 + latest firmware v3.
Fboss wrote:
I have a mixed feeling about the AFof the A1II for BIF. I'm not getting the same confidence as the A7RV, the number of birds not perfectly in focus is significant. (AF-C and med to high fps ) I haven't tried to tweak the AI settings, I never did it on the A7RV. I was expecting the AF to be better or at least as good as the A7RV in this case.
I did the update to the latest v2 firmware, and today I tried with the subject recognition set to bird (I was using auto until now). This doesn't seem to improve the keeper rate. This is with the 200-600 + latest firmware v3. ...Show more →
I am honestly confused. I see posts like this one and others where people are struggling or disappointed with the AF. Then I see posts with images of people who are getting great results and sharing those results. Are their differences in settings? Lens? Technique? Expectations? Can the camera bodies be that different? I have an a7r5 but I have never used it for BIF. I found it too slow for soccer so couldn’t imagine that it would have the speed necessary for BIF. But I’m not really a BIF shooter.
I don't do a ton of BIF images TBH, I like to catch other moments that also are fleeting and have a lot of moment, like singing, fighting, feeding, etc. All of those benefit from excellent AF and IMO more so than even BIF, because the background and foreground tend to be busier when the bird isn't flying and there's a lot to confuse the AF.