I did a search on this topic and it appears to have been brought up in early 2023 before the newest CF Summilux 50 had been out for very long, so there wasn't a ton of useful information in the thread.. but I'm curious for those that have or have used both, where you land on this one? Did you end up with both, or decide in favor of one vs the other?
I've traditionally been a Summilux person when it comes to 50's and 35's, though I did shoot with a 50 Summicron v5 for about a year and never really got along with it. As such, I went ahead and replaced my Lux ASPH v1 with the newer CF version, but had never bothered to try the 50 APO. I've got one coming in as a rental in a couple of days, but while I sit here waiting, I decided to look for some comparisons, and surprisingly, couldn't find too much outside of a Jimmy Chang video (50 Lux ASPH v1) and a couple of the usual bloggers.
I love the CF aspect of the new 50 lux, but in general, it's not giving me the same sharp performance wide-open or even stopped down to f/2 when I shoot at closer distances (3-5 ft) that I remember with my 50 Lux ASPH v1 and my M10-P. I think a big part of that has to do with the 24mp sensor on the M10-P vs the M11. Don't get me wrong, the images out of the new Summilux are sharp, and there are the few instances where I perfectly nail focus and I see the sharpness I expected, but it just seems like the M11 sensor is challenging the resolving power of the new Summilux in a way that the M10-P didn't, even with the older Summilux. I know there's a lot more to then Summilux than sharpness, but it honestly does get at me a bit when I peep and don't see the razor like sharpness I expect. So I figured if I'm chasing sharpness, the 50 APO is probably worth a look.
Anyone know of any solid comparisons between the two, or would care to share your thoughts if you've used them both?
I have the 50 Lux ASPH v 1 11891, the 50 Cron v5, the M10-P and the M11. I have shot the 50mm f/2.0 APO a number of times. So we have similar experiences with the cameras and the lenses. Here is my take.
I much prefer the Lux for the different character I can get out of the lens. Wide open at f/1.4 it renders beautifully. By f/5.6 to F/8.0 it is amazingly sharp, with not much difference between it and the APO except at the very far corners and then only if pixel peeping. The Lux is a much better fit for my style of photography. I am usually shooting it wide open for personality, or stopped down to f/5.6 + for sharpness and resolution. In both use cases I am very happy with the lens.
I recently acquired the Thypoch Simera 50mm ASPH with 14 aperture blades and close focus ability for when I want even more personality and cinematic look. I much prefer it to the Lux, the Cron, or the APO between f/2.0 to f/5.6 because of the better bokeh in that range due to the 14 aperture blades. At only $599 it is worth having in my bag. So, I guess I am drawn to the opposite end of the scale from the APO in my photography. Give me sharpness where/when I want it, and personality and emotion where/when I want that.
I have owned the 50 APO, 50 Lux APSH 50 Lux CF and a few other less modern options but will keep it to just the ASPH versions.
The 50 APO is incredible- It’s perfect in all scenarios and I really enjoyed using it. The size and handling of it is absolutely amazing. I loved it. If I could only own a single system and only have 1 50mm lens, this would be it. It’s great in all scenarios IMO- Sharpness, LOCA, Bokeh, Monochrome, portrait, landscape etc. It’s a lens that really performs well across all scenario's.
Also the handling of this lens is better than any of the 50’s mentioned. The 39mm size and performance is really incredible.
I sold it though- Long story short- Looking into a cabinet and seeing 50k worth of lenses just isn’t something I am always ok with so I decided I couldn’t justify the 50 APO for the style of shooting I do with the M series.
I use the M series bodies and lenses for people, travel, fun, evenings out, drunk nights at the bar, randomn events etc. All that vary drastically differnt from a beautiful landscape to a 2am meeting of friends.
The Summilux CF for me was the one to keep. I just found it really in tune to my style of shooting/what I want out of a Leica M body. The perfect technical quality isn’t what I look for out of my Leica gear. The perfect lens that is flexible enough to take the image I want is what I really strive for in my Leica equipment.
Long winded a bit here- I 100% hate when people tell you opinions on lenses and have never used any of them or post don’t examples of them-
So here are a few shots of a few randomness favorites. The 50 LUX is a lifelong keeper for me. I already know I will re-buy the 50 APO at some point if I get a good deal on it but I don’t need it
Hope this helps- You really can’t go wrong and both lenses are really fulfilling-
4 50 APO shots then 50 LUX shots
To summarize though, even Landscape/technical perfection was what I was after, the 50 APO all day long- The 50 Lux IMO is just a bit more versatile and good enough everywhere else.
Also there are other options on the market (Voigt) Thypoch etc) but you didn’t ask and its ok not to care We all work hard for our money and enjoy what we enjoy-
Also as far as sharpness goes- the APO wins 100 out of 100 times- If that is what you are after, grab the 50 APO-
LEICA M11Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/16.015s6400 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/3.41/200s250 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/16.01/640s64 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11 MonochromApo-Summicron-M 1:2/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/2.41/3200s125 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11-PSummilux-M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/4.81/1000s125 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11-PSummilux-M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/1.71/750s800 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M11-PSummilux-M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/3.41/250s125 ISO+1.3 EV
LEICA M11Summilux-M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. lens50mmf/1.41/3200s64 ISO-0.7 EV
BrandonSi wrote:
I did a search on this topic and it appears to have been brought up in early 2023 before the newest CF Summilux 50 had been out for very long, so there wasn't a ton of useful information in the thread.. but I'm curious for those that have or have used both, where you land on this one? Did you end up with both, or decide in favor of one vs the other?
I've traditionally been a Summilux person when it comes to 50's and 35's, though I did shoot with a 50 Summicron v5 for about a year and never really got along with it. As such, I went ahead and replaced my Lux ASPH v1 with the newer CF version, but had never bothered to try the 50 APO. I've got one coming in as a rental in a couple of days, but while I sit here waiting, I decided to look for some comparisons, and surprisingly, couldn't find too much outside of a Jimmy Chang video (50 Lux ASPH v1) and a couple of the usual bloggers.
I love the CF aspect of the new 50 lux, but in general, it's not giving me the same sharp performance wide-open or even stopped down to f/2 when I shoot at closer distances (3-5 ft) that I remember with my 50 Lux ASPH v1 and my M10-P. I think a big part of that has to do with the 24mp sensor on the M10-P vs the M11. Don't get me wrong, the images out of the new Summilux are sharp, and there are the few instances where I perfectly nail focus and I see the sharpness I expected, but it just seems like the M11 sensor is challenging the resolving power of the new Summilux in a way that the M10-P didn't, even with the older Summilux. I know there's a lot more to then Summilux than sharpness, but it honestly does get at me a bit when I peep and don't see the razor like sharpness I expect. So I figured if I'm chasing sharpness, the 50 APO is probably worth a look.
Anyone know of any solid comparisons between the two, or would care to share your thoughts if you've used them both? ...Show more →
You might want to send in your 50mm lux to Leica to get it looked at. I went through two copies - first one was badly front focused until Leica adjusted it. Regreted selling it and bought a second copy that is decent out of the box but not 100% sure it’s perfectly calibrated - tempted to send it in eventually. I have a perfectly calibrated by Leica 35mm apo and it just hits focus much more perfectly than any other lens in my m kit set as a reference point.
As for a sharpness comparison, I would say the center of my copy when I hit focus is very sharp from f2.8 and on. At f1.4, it’s not as sharp but the bokeh, glow and overall look is great. Compared to my 35mm apo, I think the 35mm is sharper but the 50mm is not too far behind stepped down. I do think it loses a bit of its magic after f2, it’s sharp but very neutral and bland look whereas it has a really nice rendering at f1.4 and f2.
Also if you’re chasing sharpness, just buy a q3 43mm apo. I have that and it’s better than any m apo or summilux lens if thats what you’re going for.
With a priority of 'chasing sharpness', the 50/2 APO is your ticket in the Leica lineup. The v2 of the Summilux was about more aperture blades (11) and closer MFD (0.45m) within the well-liked rendering style of the earlier lens. So they belong in two very distinct categories, and that is important as you decide what your subject matter requires most.
You may want to perhaps buy the 50/2 APO AND a new lens that is based on the Summilux 50/1.4 but with a host of significant functional and image-based improvements - but you have to go outside the Leica lineup to do so.
It's the Thypoch Simera 50/1.4, a fine versatile lens for relatively little money. This move would give you the best of both worlds, you may agree. Fred got very similar close performance from the Summilux v1 and Simera. Alex Barrera's video shows his perhaps more demanding setup with some ugly bokeh at f2.8 in the Leica lens. The Summilux is paradoxically a little better at infinity, outside its main usage distance.
YT title: Thypoch Simera 50mm 1.4 | Is the Leica Summilux worth 7x more?
If you want a very similar APO in a 50mm outside the Leica tent, you can also consider Voigtlander's VM 50/2 APO, another terrific lens. And try this search for many videos of the two Leica lenses:
'summicron 50mm f2 apo vs summilux 50mm f1.4'
Dec 30, 2024 at 01:09 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
BrandonSi wrote:
I did a search on this topic and it appears to have been brought up in early 2023 before the newest CF Summilux 50 had been out for very long, so there wasn't a ton of useful information in the thread.. but I'm curious for those that have or have used both, where you land on this one? Did you end up with both, or decide in favor of one vs the other?
I've traditionally been a Summilux person when it comes to 50's and 35's, though I did shoot with a 50 Summicron v5 for about a year and never really got along with it. As such, I went ahead and replaced my Lux ASPH v1 with the newer CF version, but had never bothered to try the 50 APO. I've got one coming in as a rental in a couple of days, but while I sit here waiting, I decided to look for some comparisons, and surprisingly, couldn't find too much outside of a Jimmy Chang video (50 Lux ASPH v1) and a couple of the usual bloggers.
I love the CF aspect of the new 50 lux, but in general, it's not giving me the same sharp performance wide-open or even stopped down to f/2 when I shoot at closer distances (3-5 ft) that I remember with my 50 Lux ASPH v1 and my M10-P. I think a big part of that has to do with the 24mp sensor on the M10-P vs the M11. Don't get me wrong, the images out of the new Summilux are sharp, and there are the few instances where I perfectly nail focus and I see the sharpness I expected, but it just seems like the M11 sensor is challenging the resolving power of the new Summilux in a way that the M10-P didn't, even with the older Summilux. I know there's a lot more to then Summilux than sharpness, but it honestly does get at me a bit when I peep and don't see the razor like sharpness I expect. So I figured if I'm chasing sharpness, the 50 APO is probably worth a look.
Anyone know of any solid comparisons between the two, or would care to share your thoughts if you've used them both? ...Show more →
I have used the 50 cron APO and the 50 lux Asph ver. 1, but only on an M10. I liked both lenses a lot. The cron APO is wonderfully sharp from wide open across the frame. If you want sharpness, then I don't think it will disappoint. It one weakness that some won't even see as a weakness is the very fast transition zone from sharp to unsharp. You have had the Lux Asph ver. 1 and you have the ver. 2, so I think you know that lens. It is quirky, but wonderful if you know its quirks and can work with them. One tip I might add about both these 50s is that they provide wonderful closeup opportunities with the Leica Macro Adapter-M.You can get 1:2 magnification with either lens and the macro adapter and both make wonderful images with it.
It one weakness that some won't even see as a weakness is the very fast transition zone from sharp to unsharp.
The rate of transition ... I think it is one of the least mentioned aspects of a rendering (vs. sharpness, bokeh, et al). Yet, I think it has a strong impact on how it "defines" the rendering of lens.
Thank you all! Really appreciate that input (and the sample images).
I do have the Q3 43, so it's good to hear that mentioned as an option. I've always found it to be extremely sharp, probably the sharpest off the Leica "lenses" I own.
I had not considered a Thypoch / APO combo, that's an interesting approach to getting close to having both (which I briefly considered, but given the cost of both the CF and APO, decided against).
I had read about the focus transition / fall-off difference and I think that was an important aspect of the V1 ASPH that I enjoyed so will be curious to see the APO's performance in that regard.
I don't think there's anything off on my CF lens, the very few times I do use the rear LCD or Visoflex to focus at 1.4 it does typically result in sharp images, I think it's probably a combo of me romanticizing the sharpness of the original v1 I had, the lower resolution of the M10-P / higher resolution of the M11, and difficulty achieving critical focus at 1.4 all the time. But I may consider it, though last I had heard the wait times at Leica were rather long.. perhaps more rigorous testing (tripod/ruler/etc.. required before I send it in for a problem that's most likely with me as opposed to the lens.
Hearing the feedback, I'm glad I rented the APO instead of my typically "buy for an extended rental" approach. I had owned the 50/2 ZM Planar many years ago (paired with an M-E original) and found it a bit boring. I'm concerned the APO may land me in a similar position. It's also possible I may find it very similar (or close enough) to the Q3 43 performance that the 50 Lux / Q3 43 combo that it's unnecessary.
50 APO should be here tomorrow from LR, so will certainly share thoughts / images when it arrives! Thanks again
I have both 50 Summicrion APO and Summilux ASPH (v1) and I like them both very much. But I use the APO more as it's a bit more flexible for me. I try to use the APO at f/2.0 as such as possible and its IQ wide open is very special compare with other 50s. Look forward to hearing your feedback.
50APO-M just has something not to many other lenses have... Can't really articulate you just have to own and use it long enough to not notice it in other lenses.
I've tried to replicate this feeling with the CV50APO, Lux lenses etc etc... Nothing really has the same feeling save for the APO-SL lenses which you're not asking about.
ocean2059 wrote:
I have both 50 Summicrion APO and Summilux ASPH (v1) and I like them both very much. But I use the APO more as it's a bit more flexible for me. I try to use the APO at f/2.0 as such as possible and its IQ wide open is very special compare with other 50s. Look forward to hearing your feedback.
adamdewilde wrote:
50APO-M just has something not to many other lenses have... Can't really articulate you just have to own and use it long enough to not notice it in other lenses.
I've tried to replicate this feeling with the CV50APO, Lux lenses etc etc... Nothing really has the same feeling save for the APO-SL lenses which you're not asking about.
Out of curiosity, what do you both typically shoot? Do you see this "specialness" of the lens primarily in near-focus, around the house scenarios, or in landscape situations, or on the street, etc..? Want to make sure I get a variety of testing in while I have the lens, I only rented it for a few days.
For me, it's the images taken around 1-3 meters distance (wide open) for whatever the user cases maybe, around the house scenarios, city travel and sometimes portraits, although it's also very applicable to landscape. The out of focus transitions are very unique compared with other APO lenses. Technically, the APO Summicron-m may be behind the APO Summicron-SL and Voigtlander 50 APO Lanthar in terms of edge/corner performance. But I like APO Summicron-m more as I felt that both APO Summicron-SL and Voigtlander 50 APO Lanthar are a bit 'boring,' similar to what you said about Zeiss Planar 50/2 ZM.
RustyRus wrote:
I have owned the 50 APO, 50 Lux APSH 50 Lux CF and a few other less modern options but will keep it to just the ASPH versions.
The 50 APO is incredible- It’s perfect in all scenarios and I really enjoyed using it. The size and handling of it is absolutely amazing. I loved it. If I could only own a single system and only have 1 50mm lens, this would be it. It’s great in all scenarios IMO- Sharpness, LOCA, Bokeh, Monochrome, portrait, landscape etc. It’s a lens that really performs well across all scenario's.
Also the handling of this lens is better than any of the 50’s mentioned. The 39mm size and performance is really incredible.
I sold it though- Long story short- Looking into a cabinet and seeing 50k worth of lenses just isn’t something I am always ok with so I decided I couldn’t justify the 50 APO for the style of shooting I do with the M series.
I use the M series bodies and lenses for people, travel, fun, evenings out, drunk nights at the bar, randomn events etc. All that vary drastically differnt from a beautiful landscape to a 2am meeting of friends.
The Summilux CF for me was the one to keep. I just found it really in tune to my style of shooting/what I want out of a Leica M body. The perfect technical quality isn’t what I look for out of my Leica gear. The perfect lens that is flexible enough to take the image I want is what I really strive for in my Leica equipment.
Long winded a bit here- I 100% hate when people tell you opinions on lenses and have never used any of them or post don’t examples of them-
So here are a few shots of a few randomness favorites. The 50 LUX is a lifelong keeper for me. I already know I will re-buy the 50 APO at some point if I get a good deal on it but I don’t need it
Hope this helps- You really can’t go wrong and both lenses are really fulfilling-
4 50 APO shots then 50 LUX shots
To summarize though, even Landscape/technical perfection was what I was after, the 50 APO all day long- The 50 Lux IMO is just a bit more versatile and good enough everywhere else.
Also there are other options on the market (Voigt) Thypoch etc) but you didn’t ask and its ok not to care We all work hard for our money and enjoy what we enjoy-
Also as far as sharpness goes- the APO wins 100 out of 100 times- If that is what you are after, grab the 50 APO- ...Show more →
I really appreciate it when people show what a lens can do, not just talk about it.
BrandonSi wrote:
Thank you all! Really appreciate that input (and the sample images).
I do have the Q3 43, so it's good to hear that mentioned as an option. I've always found it to be extremely sharp, probably the sharpest off the Leica "lenses" I own.
I had not considered a Thypoch / APO combo, that's an interesting approach to getting close to having both (which I briefly considered, but given the cost of both the CF and APO, decided against).
I had read about the focus transition / fall-off difference and I think that was an important aspect of the V1 ASPH that I enjoyed so will be curious to see the APO's performance in that regard.
I don't think there's anything off on my CF lens, the very few times I do use the rear LCD or Visoflex to focus at 1.4 it does typically result in sharp images, I think it's probably a combo of me romanticizing the sharpness of the original v1 I had, the lower resolution of the M10-P / higher resolution of the M11, and difficulty achieving critical focus at 1.4 all the time. But I may consider it, though last I had heard the wait times at Leica were rather long.. perhaps more rigorous testing (tripod/ruler/etc.. required before I send it in for a problem that's most likely with me as opposed to the lens.
Hearing the feedback, I'm glad I rented the APO instead of my typically "buy for an extended rental" approach. I had owned the 50/2 ZM Planar many years ago (paired with an M-E original) and found it a bit boring. I'm concerned the APO may land me in a similar position. It's also possible I may find it very similar (or close enough) to the Q3 43 performance that the 50 Lux / Q3 43 combo that it's unnecessary.
50 APO should be here tomorrow from LR, so will certainly share thoughts / images when it arrives! Thanks again ...Show more →
I have a Q3 43 (image quality is amazing as you know) and just sold a 50 Lux ASPH to switch to 50 APO and Thypoch 50. Based on numerous videos/reviews/etc it looked like the Thypoch was close enough to the Lux where I could finally sell the Lux and get the 50 APO that I've been wanting for years. In doing my own testing after I received the Thypoch, it was indeed close to the rendering of the 50 Lux, in fact you couldn't ask for it to be closer. I wanted the 50 APO for even sharpness landscapes, which the 50 Lux can not do below f/5.6 or so. The Q3 43 is as sharp as my 50 APO but the M11 and Q are of course very different tools, I want both for different situations
Just following up from my experiment as I had the 50 APO for a few days to test it out alongside the 50 Lux CF.
Is the APO sharper than the 50 Lux CF? Yep! For sure, especially at close distances.
It also seemed to have a touch of Leica "glow" to it as well which surprised me.. I had expected very clinical rendering going in, and I think you get that, but I didn't expect it to have a "character" so to speak..
I couldn't really do a proper test with a tripod with family visiting and the short amount of time I had with the lens, but here's an example of what I'm talking about. One is with the Lux and one with with the 50 APO.
Now, having said all of the that, I did not personally find the 50 APO worth the extra cost, and I did notice how painful not having CF capability was for sure with the APO. I did get the 50 Simera in the same day I mailed back the 50 APO, and I'm really enjoying that.. it's actually sharper than the 50 Lux CF at near distances wide open. I'm going to give it a few more days, but so far it has me leaning to making a decision...
... which is, not buying the 50 APO, and actually selling the 50 Lux CF and just keeping the 50 Simera. Need to think about that a bit more, but I'm really quite impressed with the IQ out of the Simera. The build quality is bugging me a bit, it's not in the same league IMO as the Leica, but IQ certainly is..
I'll post the detail of which image is which in the next post, just to avoid spoilers or if you want to try your hand at guessing.
My opinion….looking at these images its quite obvious which is which besides the fact they are at different apertures. Especially looking at the out of focus areas, the APO obviously has less CA. I can also see a slight difference in sharpness on the subject, the APO has more detail/microcontrast to it. You’re right on the handling, the Lux is far superior to the Thypoch.
If you are using primarily for every day use/portraits/etc, I think the Thypoch is just fine. If you are doing any landscapes, you’ll be disappointed
I would offer one slightly differing opinion on the Lux vs APO. I recently rented an APO and it is a wonderfully sharp lens. On a Monochrom body I think it's unmatched. I currently own the 50mm Lux ASPH II (close focus) and an older ASPH I. The new ASPH II is a different lens - it's not a large difference, but not only does it focus closer, it's sharper. I was curious about this, so I found an article by Jono Slack that outlines the first 3 elements of the lens have new shapes and new materials. Whatever the reason, it is sharper than the ASPH I if that matters to you. It also has more aperture blades. I can't really tell much difference in the bokeh balls, but if you really pixel peep it's there.
The GAS side of me really wants the APO lens for no rational reason other than I just want to have it knowing it's a technically outstanding lens. But having used it, and comparing to my CF Lux, I can't look at my wife and then buy the lens without feeling guilty. I love Summilux lenses - there is something just a little different about them - call it rendering, drawing, whatever you like. I'll probably end up buying an APO anyway, and just get over the guilt....
rsolti13 wrote:
My opinion….looking at these images its quite obvious which is which besides the fact they are at different apertures. Especially looking at the out of focus areas, the APO obviously has less CA. I can also see a slight difference in sharpness on the subject, the APO has more detail/microcontrast to it. You’re right on the handling, the Lux is far superior to the Thypoch.
If you are using primarily for every day use/portraits/etc, I think the Thypoch is just fine. If you are doing any landscapes, you’ll be disappointed
I agree, I'm sure most can pick them out, I think I was expecting something very sharp and clinical, a la Canon or Sony style from the APO. I was just surprised that 50 APO retained something of a Leica signature despite their focus on "perfection" with the lens.
Landscape is the only thing that gives me a bit of pause..which honestly I don't do that often, and would probably be using the Zeiss 25 2.8, 35 Lux CF or the 90 Summarit 2.4.. I do have the Q3 43, which won't get me anything in the mono space for landscape, but should be a sufficient stand-in for the 50 Lux CF or 50 APO. Decisions, decisions..
I'd love to see someone really test the 50 APO vs the Voigtlander 50 APO Lanthar BTW. If anyone out there has both, love to hear thoughts. I have seen a couple reviews on line, but there seemed to be some clear "budget lens" bias in those.
