p.2 #1 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
snapsy wrote:
Nikon's MF assist on the MILC uses the same phase-detect focus sensing mechanism that's used by the camera's AF system, so the green box confirmation for MF is as precise as if you used autofocus on the subject. In other words, very good. It's also why the feature is only available for lenses with electrical contacts (or adapters that simulate them), since the sensing mechanism needs knowledge of the lens's exit pupil distance in order to properly evaluate the focus phase.
We do use non electronic contacts in a lot of manual focus but I will never trust a led to tell me it’s in focus. Sony I can see the subject and peaking. Both my D850 bodies had to go in for AF issues. Fixed them and sold them. Now have not touched a Nikon since but no desire either. The Sony’s have never failed me since the A7r with manual focus
Oct 21, 2024 at 12:04 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
I have used both the Nikon green box focussing and magnification on Nikon and on Sony magnification for focussing. Both work very well, but I actually prefer using magnification on either camera and then the key in my experience is the EVF. The Nikon Z7 I have used extensively for manual focussing has a very good EVF, but I prefer the higher resolution EVF of my Sony A7r V. Given my use I prefer only having magnification with the higher resolution EVF. For me it is not about having multiple options, even though I appreciated having multiple options with Nikon; it is about having my top option which I use in the vast majority of cases function the best. For me that is using magnification with Sony and not just any Sony, but one with a great EVF. Others likely have different preferences and that is to be expected. I don't think there is an easy or simple answer here and individual practices and preferences are very likely to matter.
p.2 #3 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
I think the bigger issue here with either system is user abilities. Manual focus takes some training and usage to get good at it plus knowing your system well.
p.2 #4 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
philip_pj wrote:
[...] The older lenses are much better for MF because they had to be used with OVFs, as that is all we had at the time.
?
In my opinion some older MF lenses are good for MF and some more modern lenses are also good for MF. If we like to focus with the lens wide open we want a lens with high contrast. Some lenses doesn't really give us that. For example; it's easier to focus a Voigtländer 40/1.2 at f2 than wide open. The 50/2 APO is easy to focus wide open.
Some, many actually, modern lenses would be great for MF if they had a proper focusing mechanism. Sony lenses are sometimes not that great for manual control due to their nervous and sensitive focusing rings.
p.2 #6 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
I’m a little surprised by those saying the Sony manual focus aids are good enough. I strongly disagree.
I think I’m as good as most using the magnify and peaking to manually focus, but it takes WAY more time to do that while a subject is patiently waiting than an autofocus lens does with eye autofocus. Having eye focus with manual lenses would be slower than autofocus eye AF, but it would be significantly faster than magnify and focus peaking. You could see the whole scene and then not have to worry about moving your box around to magnify someone’s eye. You would just focus using the whole scene until the green eye box lit up and then bam! Hit the shutter. Why wouldn’t everyone want this option on Sony? It’s the only thing I’ve wished for in years so my Voigtlander lenses would be even better for people photography.
Oct 21, 2024 at 12:52 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
mudlake wrote:
I’m a little surprised by those saying the Sony manual focus aids are good enough. I strongly disagree.
I think I’m as good as most using the magnify and peaking to manually focus, but it takes WAY more time to do that while a subject is patiently waiting than an autofocus lens does with eye autofocus. Having eye focus with manual lenses would be slower than autofocus eye AF, but it would be significantly faster than magnify and focus peaking. You could see the whole scene and then not have to worry about moving your box around to magnify someone’s eye. You would just focus using the whole scene until the green eye box lit up and then bam! Hit the shutter. Why wouldn’t everyone want this option on Sony? It’s the only thing I’ve wished for in years so my Voigtlander lenses would be even better for people photography. ...Show more →
I like the visual confirmation that the shot I am taking is in focus and by visual confirmation I mean that I can see that what I want in focus is in focus. I can quickly move the box to where I want to focus, magnify, and get that visual confirmation the shot is in focus. I don't want to go quicker. If I did, then I would use an AF lens. Personally, when I had the green box focussing with Nikon, I appreciated it was there, but I almost never used it. Of course, that is just me. I can see why others might like more than magnification, but personally what I really want is the best and easiest use of magnification and the best and easiest use of magnification I have found is with the Sony A7r V.
p.2 #8 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
GMPhotography wrote:
We do use non electronic contacts in a lot of manual focus but I will never trust a led to tell me it’s in focus. Sony I can see the subject and peaking. Both my D850 bodies had to go in for AF issues. Fixed them and sold them. Now have not touched a Nikon since but no desire either. The Sony’s have never failed me since the A7r with manual focus
Contrast-based focus peaking is just as algorithmic-dependent as Nikon's phase-detect confirmation mechanism, if not more. In both scenarios the photographer is leaning on the camera for assistance.
p.2 #10 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
I've never used it, but just watched a video and the Z6iii and Zf MF focusing aids sound great. Auto eye detection and the green focus box confirmation along with the ability to punch in and out of magnification sounds like a great solution.
And I really enjoyed the PiP magnification for focus confirmation in Panasonic GH bodies I used to use, that was. great feature.
I think Sony could do better, but until they sell manual focus lenses, I don't see why they'd bother. Maybe on the video/cine bodies, but not on photo centric cams.
p.2 #11 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
The ZF subject detection sounds great till you actually use it and see all the false positives! I was hopeful it would be helpful but I turned it off almost immediately. Doesn't matter, I just throw the MF box over the subject and the "green" confirmation is bang on accurate every time.
p.2 #12 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
mudlake wrote:
I’m a little surprised by those saying the Sony manual focus aids are good enough. I strongly disagree.
I think I’m as good as most using the magnify and peaking to manually focus, but it takes WAY more time to do that while a subject is patiently waiting than an autofocus lens does with eye autofocus. Having eye focus with manual lenses would be slower than autofocus eye AF, but it would be significantly faster than magnify and focus peaking. You could see the whole scene and then not have to worry about moving your box around to magnify someone’s eye. You would just focus using the whole scene until the green eye box lit up and then bam! Hit the shutter. Why wouldn’t everyone want this option on Sony? It’s the only thing I’ve wished for in years so my Voigtlander lenses would be even better for people photography. ...Show more →
Also not all of us have perfect eyesight. As my eyesight deteriorates, I prefer to have the algorithm/confirmation telling me that the subject is in focus. Even though there are AF lenses, there are a lot of MF lenses that are much more compact and fun to use. Basically with MF lenses I use my hand to do the work of the AF motor, but still want the computer inside the camera to tell me when to stop.
I also think the philosophy behind the Techart AF adapters is brilliant. Wish some bigger company such as Viogtlander would take it over and develop it into a more robust interface.
p.2 #13 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Jonas B wrote:
Exaggerated or not but i think that is correct. I would have written "the least developed system for MF" or something like that.
I clearly disagree with this.
For those who want a focus confirmation in the form of a green box, yes Sony does not have this and those must look to Nikon or Canon.
But for me manual focus is all about me myself seeing where I want to place sharpness, and more than that: where to place the compromise if I want some things in the foreground relatively sharp as well as others that are further away. I want to see for myself how sharpness is distributed accross the image and how it is affected by the f-stop. I definitely do not want a green box telling me where to move the focus. I take an autofocus lens for these use cases.
So what does it boil down to? To me it is the camera with the highest resolution viewfinder that is best. The camera that supports me in “seeing” where the focus is, NOT “telling me”. The point is, I want to do manual focus by myself.
And here the Sony A1 and A7rV reign supreme. The Nikon and Canon Viewfinder don’t even come close.
Asking for a green spot to confirm focus is like introducingg autofocus through the back door. I would definitely not want this. For these use cases I would go straight to an AF Lens and not bother with a manual focus approach.
Of course all these reasons are personal, but to me these arguments make the Sony System the best and not the worst system for manual focus.
p.2 #14 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Knut. wrote:
I clearly disagree with this.
For those who want a focus confirmation in the form of a green box, yes Sony does not have this and those must look to Nikon or Canon.
But for me manual focus is all about me myself seeing where I want to place sharpness, and more than that: where to place the compromise if I want some things in the foreground relatively sharp as well as others that are further away. I want to see for myself how sharpness is distributed accross the image and how it is affected by the f-stop. I definitely do not want a green box telling me where to move the focus. I take an autofocus lens for these use cases.
So what does it boil down to? To me it is the camera with the highest resolution viewfinder that is best. The camera that supports me in “seeing” where the focus is, NOT “telling me”. The point is, I want to do manual focus by myself.
And here the Sony A1 and A7rV reign supreme. The Nikon and Canon Viewfinder don’t even come close.
Asking for a green spot to confirm focus is like introducingg autofocus through the back door. I would definitely not want this. For these use cases I would go straight to an AF Lens and not bother with a manual focus approach.
Of course all these reasons are personal, but to me these arguments make the Sony System the best and not the worst system for manual focus....Show more →
All you said is totally true and exactly what I do…for landscape images. For landscapes, no green box is necessary. But for people photography (which is really what I think the OP is talking about), a green confirmation box over a person’s eye would allow manual focusing WITHOUT having to use the clumsy, time consuming, “frame the image in the viewfinder, move the focus box to the person’s eye, magnify, manual focus” method Sony forces us to use. Instead, with eye confirmation in manual focus, you could use the whole field of view and simply frame the shot in the viewfinder, focus until the green eye box lights up and then press the shutter.
It’s not like Sony would force you to use the manual focus eye confirmation. It would simply be available if someone wants/needs it. If you don’t want it, turn it off. But it would be fantastic for those of us who want it - mainly for portraits.
p.2 #15 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
It is all down to individual preferences and personal approaches to the process, speaking here of portraits. A lot of factors: focus distance, focal lengths, compositions, light, subject movement (if any), need for accuracy on 'the eye', and more besides.
Time taken comes up a lot, and much of this can be rolled into preparation. Many portraits can be taken with focus and recompose because the angle of central focus and required frame placement is not great enough to damage the shot. The taking distance is generally known, based on experience and familiarity with the lens used - you already know where to stand. The focus ring can be preset close to exact, so just a fine tune is needed.
Have you ever measured how long it takes to invoke the Sony focus box level one? L1 is very often enough to take the shot, you might agree. I find greater issues arise using different lenses, some are just fantastic for 'first time focus', no roll back and forth.
Another issue I have no idea about, and this is from a person who mistrusts camera automation as a bias, is this: subjects often turn a little or move their heads longitudinally enough to disrupt focus. How does the green box deal with this? Does it stay constant on the subject, how often does it update, does it blink to show the change in focus? What is the lag in green box response time if a person moves their head three inches back or front? What happens if you press the release in that time frame?
All these may happen as you turn the focus ring to match the instruction from the camera body. And the big one - you now have an extra factor involved other than your natural inclination to trust your eye to focus, something you practice every waking moment of your life. I photograph total strangers, very different from familiar people.
We use our eyes to focus on edges or texture in the real world. I would dislike focusing on a green box ahead of a human face, they remind me of spook movies like Bourne. I want my vision in charge of the process, not Nikon's spook box. I am not enamored of flashy thingies
Oct 21, 2024 at 05:31 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
mudlake wrote:
All you said is totally true and exactly what I do…for landscape images. For landscapes, no green box is necessary. But for people photography (which is really what I think the OP is talking about), a green confirmation box over a person’s eye would allow manual focusing WITHOUT having to use the clumsy, time consuming, “frame the image in the viewfinder, move the focus box to the person’s eye, magnify, manual focus” method Sony forces us to use. Instead, with eye confirmation in manual focus, you could use the whole field of view and simply frame the shot in the viewfinder, focus until the green eye box lights up and then press the shutter.
It’s not like Sony would force you to use the manual focus eye confirmation. It would simply be available if someone wants/needs it. If you don’t want it, turn it off. But it would be fantastic for those of us who want it - mainly for portraits. ...Show more →
For me, however, I always frame before I move the box. Then I move the box to let's say the eye. Then I magnify the eye and focus then click the shutter. The green box only saves in that I don't have to press the joystick where my finger already is to magnify. I find that a pretty small savings and not nearly as important to me as having a better EVF.
p.2 #17 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
tsdevine wrote:
I wish Sony had trap focus for MF.
Perhaps in the future, AI AF could be advanced in that photogs talk to cameras / phones, describing the subject to track, which part to focus on and the moment / expression needed to release shutters. Now that's a trap focus feature I’d like to see..
p.2 #18 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
mojoh wrote:
Perhaps in the future, AI AF could be advanced in that photogs talk to cameras / phones, describing the subject to track, which part to focus on and the moment / expression needed to release shutters. Now that's a trap focus feature I’d like to see..
Why not go a step further and just describe what kind of images you want and ask the AI photo robot to go to shoot under the scorching sun as you comfortably sip a cup of coffee on the porch. Then the AI photo robot, being really advanced, simply generates all kinds of nice photos as you have described from nowhere without doing the actual shoot, yet you have no way to know.
p.2 #19 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
mojoh wrote:
Perhaps in the future, AI AF could be advanced in that photogs talk to cameras / phones, describing the subject to track, which part to focus on and the moment / expression needed to release shutters. Now that's a trap focus feature I’d like to see..
Trap focus is not rocket science for my use case, my Canon's had it. Works well when handholding a manual focus macro lens, for example.
p.2 #20 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
guidostow wrote:
I love the manual focus capabilities of my a7riva using Sigma Lenses. While looking at the LCD screen, I use the peaking, hit the focus magnifier button, use the joystick to position the point, hit the select button and focus away. The position of the peaking highlight tells me right where the plane of focus is. The accuracy is spot on. It works well for me with my Canon TS-E lenses, but I wish there was a way to get them to stop down...
The only better system was my Wisner 8x10. Now that was a fine ground glass...
Granted I've never played around with a Canon or Nikon but I find the manual focus assist on my a7r3 to be incredible.
I use the same procedure as you described and I shoot with six Voigtlander and Minolta primes. With my fading eyes the MF assist, peak focusing have been a blessing.
Perhaps if I had time with Nikon/Canon I might have a different opinion but so far I am firmly in Sony's corner.
