andrewbright wrote:
But I think that's the nature of autofocus...until they start building AF sensors that keep working while the shutter is open, surely all AF shots are gonna be just a little bit out? Or is Canon gear really that much better than Nikon?
Andrew
Andrew, they actually do make AF systems like this and Id assume your Nikon gear can do this as well, its called Predictive AF
basically how it works is that the camera "predicts" where the subject is going to be at the time of the shutter opening ahead of time. After all, with a moving subject, if its sharp in the viewfinder and its moving at you very quickly, when you take into account the shutter lag which all camera's have, the subject isnt where it was just a few miliseconds ago
now the camera really only can predict linear movement, its not possible for it to understand the rate at which a driver may apply the brakes etc but just the same, all my bodies generally have no problems tracking fast action
Ive shot nitro cars, 189mph AMA superbikes etc. Granted my 10D sometimes couldnt keep up but the 1 series would nail about 95% of the shots. Your d70 is supposedly a bit better for af than the 10D ive heard as well
perhaps if you could share more of your techinque as I dont think the problem is the camera, unless its just out a spec
My 1D mkII was this way, it was sharp but not as sharp as I thought it should be, I sent it to canon, they adjusted it and now it seems to be a little more dead on
Nice to have for the flavor of the event - these are kind of softer for a "features" area of a newspaper than for the sports section.... ya never know what hole an editor needs to fill...
I've just had a look through the manual at the autofocus options. My D70 does employ predictive autofocus when it detects that the subject is moving it says. But I've got a shoot on tomorrow, and I'll try switching from single area AF to dynamic area AF. It would be really nice if I could let the camera take over...I've had to turn away quite a few people because the shots I've had of them have been out of focus, but I just haven't been able to trust the AF so far.
As far as my technique to date has gone, I've normally pre-focussed at about 20M with my 300mm (that fills the frame nicely with the whole kart/bike). I'm in manual focus mode, and trip the shutter just before the subject is in crisp focus. Of course there's more to that story than it sounds...it's almost impossible to describe how that looks through the viewfinder, and the whole event is over in a fraction of a second (I figure out once that you only have about 1/10 of a second to get the shot), so, I don't know. I'm hoping that I can train myself to trip the shutter at the right instant, and I am getting there. And I figure that's the right way to be going. If I eventually get to say a fast 600mm lens, it's ridiculous to expect that tiny little AF motor to drive such a huge element, So I'd be forced into manual pre-focussing in that situation, and I figure it's a good technique to pick up over the years. But I'm reminded of this guy who was running a minilab theory course I went to once: He was talking about how they used to have to print each neg manually, and now you can afford to just set the thing to Auto these days, and sure you'll get a few duds, but most of the prints will be fine. So maybe AF is the same? I guess we'll find out tomorrow how far technology has advanced, but fingers crossed huh?
I have just started on motor sport shots, however im not into full on photography with SLR.
So have purchased a new Canon Powershot Pro 1
Is it possible to achive similar quality pictures to what is posted here with this type of camera
Cheers in advance
You shouldn't have any problems with pit-and-paddock type stuff, but integrated digicams tend to suffer somewhat from shutter lag so action shots might be harder to capture than they could be. You also might find the restricted aperture and ISO range frustrating, particularly with panning shots in bright light.
While I have no direct experience with integrated digicams or of the Powershot Pro 1, I have helped friends get racing shots with this type of camera, and what I have described above are the typical problems encountered. For casual shooting you might get away with the Pro 1, but in the long term an SLR is a more ideal tool for this kind of photography.
Andrew, first off make sure you are using the continuous focus mode on your D70. I think you have to set that in the menu on that camera, that is the one that will follow the subject. If you have it on single shot mode then there is no way for it to do this and that is your entire problem. I know Nikon now has a dynamic thing for the focus points, I think you will find using one set point to be more effective.
So make sure you try continuous mode and one point and see what happens for you. You should not have a problem, I shot Nikon for years and the AF was perfectly fine for moving objects, as a matter of fact I think it was MORE accurate than my Canon stuff is.
Also, dont worry about moving to larger lenses, all the new Nikons have focus motors in the lens and they are very fast, its called AF-S. If you get any of those lenses they will focus much much faster than any non AF-S lens and you will have much better luck.
As for pit and paddock shots, you're right Dave, its a big part of the entire setting at the track. Sometimes we forget about it, I know I have to consciously make myself take such shots as I often get too caught up with making sure I get good on track shots. But you definately want to get some of those, here are some examples.
Anyway, that is probably the weakest part of my photograhpy, trying to tell the whole story that is taking place off the track. All good shooters can take good shots on track, thats easy, but looking for that special off track shot is hard and when done properly can be even more powerful than a good on track shot.
Funny, the pit and paddock shots are what I like doing best - I just love people-watching when behind a camera.
Compared to my colleagues, I would say that is my strength rather than action shots. Action is all about timing, people shots is purely down to observation and an eye for detail.
andrewbright wrote:
I'm hoping that I can train myself to trip the shutter at the right instant, and I am getting there. And I figure that's the right way to be going. If I eventually get to say a fast 600mm lens, it's ridiculous to expect that tiny little AF motor to drive such a huge element, So I'd be forced into manual pre-focussing in that situation, and I figure it's a good technique to pick up over the years.
What 'huge' element is that 'tiny' AF motor driving? Most of the bigger lenses are internal or rear focus...the front element doesn't move, there are smaller elements inside the lens which do the focusing.
Sounds like most everything has been covered already... but I just wanted to back up a few of the things others have said (as well as show off a few photos).
Media access isn't everything. It really helps for some shots, but not everything requires one. When I first started out I was shooting over the fences at Laguna Seca. Jim mentions bringing something to stand on, which is VERY good advice. Even with shorter fences it's much easier to pan over a fence when you're on a stepladder. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/79/56/945679-133665922dbee567.jpg
(Shot over a fence from spectator areas. Canon EOS D30 w/70-200mm f/2.8L 1/125th at f/16)
I was also under the impression that there was a catch 22 thing going on. Needing access to get the portfolio, but needing the portfolio to get the access... Talking with a few other photographers they informed me that the shots that I was thinking I could get with credentials weren't really special at all. They talked about how you need to develop your own style and carve your own niche in things... and while credentials will help get into some places, they will not give you style.
Slowing down shutter speeds is a great way to show motion in motorsports... The only problem with still photography is that it's capturing a moment in time, and motion is hard to show in a moment. Like John said, mentioning shutter speeds to use is arbitrary when taken out of context. One of the best things, for me anyways, about shooting digital was the ability to review the shots (checking for too much/not enough motion). You can also take lots of different shutter speeds on the first few days of practice and review them all before the race and find out what worked best for each corner/focal length. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/03/30/1183003-09833c4ac6114237.jpg
(Canon EOS D30 w/28-70mm f/2.8L ISO100 1/60th at f/22)
Jim also make a great point about moving away from using the center focal point. I spend too much time on the center point when getting my safe shots, but have started doing it more and more for my own work. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/95/15/1221595-87ef8e22ee4385fe.jpg
(Canon EOS D30 w/400mm f/2.8L ISO100 1/500th at f/8)
Someone mentioned shooting at a 45° angle... Well, sometime it works... sometimes it doesn't. Personally I like the angle shots because you can use the longest dimension of the frame concentrated on the subject of the photograph. I find that if you need to capture the entire vehicle in the horizontal of an image you get lots of empty space above/below the car... and without an interesting background it gets distracting. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/18/30/1283018-0ebd6e96501a46b4.jpg
(Canon EOS D30 w/70-200mm f/2.8L ISO100 1/125th at f/22)
The on track action is only part of the event. There is all sorts of stuff going on behind the scenes in the garages and on the pit-lane. You can also use the techniques described for on track action while in the pits. I know Jim has several great motion/blur shots of pit crews working... You can also get away from the center focal point for these types of shots. It's also a good idea to play with larger apertures and low DOF. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/38/08/1400838-298231921c45f838.jpg
(ALMS pre-race at Laguna Seca shot at f/4 with some b&w conversion done in Photoshop)
I think the biggest thing that you need to try and do when covering a motorsports event is to find the unique shots that others have not done. There are some key shots at every track (Laguna Seca = corkscrew, Sears Point = sky shot, Long Beach = palm trees), but you need to get those shots and move on to something different. http://photos.photosig.com/photos/95/81/1288195-c16fc802a4824d58.jpg
(ALMS Victory Circle at Sears Point shot from the top of the grandstand stairs with some b&w conversion done in Photoshop)
Last, but not least, equipment... Best advice I can give on this one is to do what you can with what you have. As you find what you have doesn't do what you want, then move up to something else. I started with a Canon G1... it was great for pit shots and some on track action. I found myself wanting more control over shutter speeds and exposures so upgraded to a used Canon EOS D30, which, even at the time, was hardly cutting edge technology... but it did everything I wanted/needed at the time. These days you can get into a DSLR for half what I paid for my used D30. There are many new and used cameras out there, just need to figure out what your needs are and budget is. You don't need some super expensive camera to capture great images... almost all of the shots posted here were taken with the D30. The camera is only a tool... the photographer makes the images. Yes, some of the faster AF features and faster shooting rates are helpful, but they aren't necessary... But, if you can afford it, the new high-speed digitals are absolutely amassing! http://photos.photosig.com/photos/57/47/1454757-043274a35fce6fc1.jpg
(Canon EOS-1D MkII w/70-200mm f/2.8L shot at ISO1600 1/500th at f/2.8)
Some incredible shots in there, and I am sure the equipment tip was more directed at pigginell. It's pretty great that this thread is still active... I've been away snowboarding for the last couple of days. Thanks for the response and the tips. Everyone thus far has been incredible with their responses.
Todd's airborne motorcycle reminds me of another rule of thumb...
Find the 'special feature' of each track, that turn or rise or bridge or straigt, that really defines that circuit.
Make a point of getting some key shots at that location. Look at shots already taken there, and work out shooting location, time of day, sun position, lens choice etc etc.
Classic case, the crest at turn 1, Knockhill, Scotland.
As the race warms up, the cars start to gain speed at the end of the start strait, and flip on to two wheels as the pull right and down the hill.
Using 600mm, and getting really low (sitting down), enables you to get air under the cars as they flip....
And in a similar way at Oulton Park, the track crests a small rise in front of the old stone arch, which again can be captured by going down hill with the 600, keeping low to compress the perspective of the cars and building...
Looking back over this thread, one thing that occurs to me is that we've focused (excuse the pun) primarily on isolating single cars/drivers in our photography examples.
As you move to selling your images, you'll find that certain publications, teams and drivers prefer to see images of their cars 'in action'.
They want to see themselves locked in combat with other cars, so you have to think about this before setting out to capture these specific images.
The secret here is location, location, location.
You have to scout the track for lcations where you will be able to frame, not only the primary target car, but also additional cars around/behind them.
Taking advantage of the topology of the track, this 600 shot compresses the perspective and allows the trailing pack to become the background to the frame as they stream around the curve.
And finally, again at Knockhill Scotland, the 600 provides a compressed perspective on two team Kaliber cars as they chase up the hill - the rear view makes a nice change from all of the 'standard' front-on shots, and it's always worth throwing a few in for variety. Also, teams will often buy shots that include two or more of their cars in one shot. More bang fo rthe buck I guess!
