p.20 #2 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Holy crap, are we really saying that the GM 2 bokeh is harsh? I am not sure which standards we are judging lenses but the GM 2 is a good lens. It might not obliterate the background as well as the GM 1 (partly due to being wider FOV) but to say it is harsh. I have looked through enough sample shots from Fred and Bastian to say the rendering of this lens is anything but harsh. I have seen more outlining from the Nikon Plena than this one.
p.20 #3 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
NP. I'll shoot with this more but my initial impression is that for normal viewing scenarios there isn't much optical benefit for wide open portraiture and you're giving up some of the out of focus rendering. I don't doubt that the MKII is sharper from an MTF perspective, but realistically for wide open portraits the DOF tends to be so narrow that unless you're zooming on eye balls it doesn't matter a whole lot. I'll take superior rendering over higher MTF readings
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Exactly what I wanted to see. At the posted res, the contrast differential is not super apparent, while the bokeh difference is.
p.20 #4 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
hiepphotog wrote:
Holy crap, are we really saying that the GM 2 bokeh is harsh? I am not sure which standards we are judging lenses but the GM 2 is a good lens. It might not obliterate the background as well as the GM 1 (partly due to being wider FOV) but to say it is harsh. I have looked through enough sample shots from Fred and Bastian to say the rendering of this lens is anything but harsh. I have seen more outlining from the Nikon Plena than this one.
I wouldn't say it's harsh but it's a clear downgrade from the MKI, and it doesn't appear to be optically better to my eyes.
That said, the AF is a massive improvement and lens is noticeably lighter. But for posed portraiture, where the GMI is a superlative lens, the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me.
p.20 #5 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
I like the II better and im going back to my comment is the 3d look to it. I like the critical sharp wide open look better as it tends to make it stand out more and give a 3d look to it. The bokeh does not bother me at all and reason is you're NEVER going to shoot both lenses at once. You're only looking at one lens so nothing to compare against. Try looking at it as a single lens and not comparison as well but to me the II just seems to jump at you a little more. Now a test for those that are comparing side by side try a little more sharpening on the test and I think you will see more a difference . I have to go with the Version II as I need the AF speed advantage but im liking the look better . Im a little over that soft dreamy look of version 1. If I want that with Vernon 2 I can easily obtain that in post with some adjustments. You can always go backwards on that but you can't get sharper in post per say.
For those with the Version II work on your post processing and try a few things out and see what you like. I have said this my whole career and my 30 workshops that I taught pick a raw processing program and be an expert at it. Mine is C1 but many are LR and post is where it is at.
p.20 #7 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
GMPhotography wrote:
I like the II better and im going back to my comment is the 3d look to it. I like the critical sharp wide open look better as it tends to make it stand out more and give a 3d look to it. The bokeh does not bother me at all and reason is you're NEVER going to shoot both lenses at once. You're only looking at one lens so nothing to compare against. Try looking at it as a single lens and not comparison as well but to me the II just seems to jump at you a little more. Now a test for those that are comparing side by side try a little more sharpening on the test and I think you will see more a difference . I have to go with the Version II as I need the AF speed advantage but im liking the look better . Im a little over that soft dreamy look of version 1. If I want that with Vernon 2 I can easily obtain that in post with some adjustments. You can always go backwards on that but you can't get sharper in post per say.
For those with the Version II work on your post processing and try a few things out and see what you like. I have said this my whole career and my 30 workshops that I taught pick a raw processing program and be an expert at it. Mine is C1 but many are LR and post is where it is at. ...Show more →
Yeah these are SOOC basically. Yes post processing work will bring out some of the underlying optical characteristics of the lens. That said, adding sharpness and contrast will make the bokeh worse without masking, so fair warning on that.
I don't find the bokeh on the MKII to be bad though. The bigger question is whether the price of the MKII is justified when the MKI can be had for near half the price. For a dedicated portrait lens probably not but the MKII is more of jack of all trades 85 for sure.
I don't have any shoots lined up as it's still hell heat season down here. But I'll try to take some more real world type portraits in the next couple weeks as I need to make decision on this lens
p.20 #8 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Yea more time with it and working in post will give some answers and I agree at its price you want to be sure about it. I think the Bokeh equation is over as they both really have nice Bokeh. Back on Patrick Race images he shot with it says it all to me with his dancer shots as they screamed of great sharpness and look to them. Heat is KILLLING me it's 114 today and I work on a golf course outside all day. Im so tan im not a white guy anymore.
Also remember if it's hot as heck you need to be careful shooting as thermals play a big role. Im also not saying crank the sharpness up but slight amounts may bring this lens out more.
p.20 #11 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Goodrich wrote:
The GM I seems deliberately soft / under corrected wide open, which is ok for portraits. The GM Ii wide open is sharper than the I anywhere.
But the weight / bulk of the I makes it a lens for purposeful use.
Spot on though I would add the archaic AF into that equation as well. I mean it’s not at all that bad when we compare it to the like of Canon EF 50/1.2 and 85/1.2, and people tend to wax poetics about those back in the day. Next to the modern optics like the Canikon 85/1.2, the GM ii is about in-line.
p.20 #12 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Mystik wrote:
Likewise. I took the lens out during my lunch break and took some comparison shots with the MKI. AF is definitely an upgrade. Bokeh is definitely a downgrade
This is a very helpful comparison. It is just remarkable and striking how different the look is from the two lenses! I like the look from each lens very much. I can see using the Ver 1, which I own, for portraits, children, softer landscapes, etc.
The Ver 2 is also lovely. It has more contrast, brighter colors, more structure in the out-of-focus areas--a rich, microcontrasted look, more "modern," and quite different from the also fine Ver 1.
Are you planning on keeping both? I can see doing that--they are that different in their look, with each being very desirable.
p.20 #15 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Mystik wrote:
NP. I'll shoot with this more but my initial impression is that for normal viewing scenarios there isn't much optical benefit for wide open portraiture and you're giving up some of the out of focus rendering. I don't doubt that the MKII is sharper from an MTF perspective, but realistically for wide open portraits the DOF tends to be so narrow that unless you're zooming on eye balls it doesn't matter a whole lot. I'll take superior rendering over higher MTF readings
I am seeing slightly more pop, the copy and paste type affect, on the v2. Not hugely but there. If you were shooting close ups of head shots, I think the micro-contrast would be more apparent in finer textures.
I personally am not a big fan of the look, or at least not above about 50mm cause I feel like when shooting longer FL you're already getting a ton of separation--I have to force myself to stopped down often with longer glass otherwise I fall into the excessive bokeh trap.
On wides, like 24mm - 35mm, I love the WO affect because we still get a pretty decent visual context while the subject is highlighted by the shallow DOF.
Anyway, when shooting the v1, the things that stands out to me is the gentler softness on axis and gorgeous OOF areas. And I usually turn down contrast and clarity even on v1, so v2 is simply not my jam. But then again, I mostly shoot older softer glass. If I did get a v2 for the benefits of better CA, smaller size and better AF (very real benefits), I would put a diffusion filter on and try to process around the look the lens is going.
It's all just opinions anyway--nearly always use a Noct 50/1 and 73 Sonnetar for portraits, so what do I know
p.20 #17 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Looking only at images, how many would have got the GM I lens, had the GM II been released first? The GM II as a good example of the direction modern design is taking. No doubt it is fit for purpose for the intended audience.
But the older lens is much easier on the eye, even to facial rendering and bokeh onset. The GM II will sell on weight, sharpness and AF gains - the obvious things. 'Technical excellence' and 'smoother bokeh' are claimed. But what makes the images from these two lenses look so different?
Sony heroically increased element complexity (27%, eleven to fourteen) but the real difference is they doubled the number of asph elements from one to two, while reducing the APD element count from three to two. So the asph percentage went from 9% up to 14%, and the APD glass went from 27% (3/11) down to 14% (2/14).
And the asph elements are the extreme kind - they actually call them that, 'Extreme Aspherical'. They are said to deliver high resolution: '2 extreme aspherical elements achieve eye-opening resolution right out to the image edges'. These extreme asph elements are a surface treating development of the plainer asph elements that are nevertheless 'characterized by a high thickness ratio between the center and periphery of the element'.
These are the new tech, 'resolution first' lenses. The optical arms race is building momentum.
p.20 #19 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
philip_pj wrote:
Looking only at images, how many would have got the GM I lens, had the GM II been released first? The GM II as a good example of the direction modern design is taking. No doubt it is fit for purpose for the intended audience.
But the older lens is much easier on the eye, even to facial rendering and bokeh onset. The GM II will sell on weight, sharpness and AF gains - the obvious things. 'Technical excellence' and 'smoother bokeh' are claimed. But what makes the images from these two lenses look so different?
Sony heroically increased element complexity (27%, eleven to fourteen) but the real difference is they doubled the number of asph elements from one to two, while reducing the APD element count from three to two. So the asph percentage went from 9% up to 14%, and the APD glass went from 27% (3/11) down to 14% (2/14).
And the asph elements are the extreme kind - they actually call them that, 'Extreme Aspherical'. They are said to deliver high resolution: '2 extreme aspherical elements achieve eye-opening resolution right out to the image edges'. These extreme asph elements are a surface treating development of the plainer asph elements that are nevertheless 'characterized by a high thickness ratio between the center and periphery of the element'.
These are the new tech, 'resolution first' lenses. The optical arms race is building momentum....Show more →
Since I shoot a lot of outdoor portraits, I'll choose the lens that excels here regardless of what is newer. I had the 35GM and 135GM in my bag at once point, but my current kit consists of the Sigma 35 1.2 and adapted SAL 135 f1.8 (IYKYK) despite these being older
p.20 #20 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Ok more samples.
Things just got interesting. To Guy's point, SOOC doesn't always tell the story when it comes to the optics so these are processed, but use the same settings in each set.
Definitely a difference between the MKI and MKII, with the superior bokeh and painterly rendering in the MKI, but the stronger separation, micro-contrast in the MKII.
