GroovyGeek wrote:
As someone on the other side of this argument, I can say that the ONLY reason I switched from a D800E to a Z6 in 2018 was size and weight - not just of the body but of the system. I was tired of schlepping around a D800 + a bulbous bulky heavy 14-24/2.8 and don't get me started on the Wonderpana holders and filters. The moment i held a Z6 + 24-70 and knew that the 14-30/4 was coming I was sold. There was nothing in the performance that made me do it, it was only size and weight. I will not willingly go to a D8xx sized body without a feature that I feel I must have. And there is absolutely nothing in the Z8 list of features that I view as a mist have.
Like it or not, photography is a hobby practiced predominantly by men at somewhat advanced age. We are a breed of declining physical ability, particularly past age 55, and 5 oz here, 2 oz there add up surprisingly fast. I speak from first hand experience.
I think that the body size preference is also somewhat correlated to the type of lenses that are used. If you already have big heavy lenses then a slightly bigger body is actually beneficial in terms of handling. But as a hiking landscape guy, my preferred kit is Z6 + 14-30/4 + 24-120/4 + 70-300 + Leofoto 284 CEX. I consciously avoided the Z7 because my use of a D800 for many years showed me that 30 MPx is more than enough for the type of use I have. I also have a bias towards not using a tripod unless I have to, the ability to run the Z6 at a higher ISO relative to the Z7 was also a consideration. The recent crop of AI noise reduction tools may change that calculus but I am not sufficiently motivated to put in the work to answer that question. So Z6iii it is for me... for now. If I get it and don't like it I will take a 10-15% bath in a few months and buy a used Z8....Show more →
I've shot with an FE2 and F3, a D90 and D700, and now a Z6. I enjoy the feel/heft/ergonomics of the larger body, but realistically, either film body allowed me to get the shot for what I do. The D700 was only ever paired with small manual focus primes and I needed the sensor performance. If I was holding a camera all day, I'd almost certainly want a Z8/Z9 with the best grips, but that isn't me. I am hiking, carrying food/water/gear, chasing progeny, etc. I've enjoyed the Z6 and standard zooms or any prime I've owned so much since picking one up years ago. It never made the DSLR bad, but it worked better for my shooting. Once the early adopter timeframe is up and the price drops to $2000-2200 with no tax or vendor pays the tax incentives (or even lower if a Z7iii were to be announced before end of year which I don't necessarily expect), it's almost certainly a worthwhile upgrade for me.
I even have a 500G VR (which is a bit silly with a Z6), but I'd be happy to turn that lens around and have a 100-400, 400/4.5 or 600PF which is just too easy to carry.
GroovyGeek wrote:
I think this is the far more likely path for reincarnation of the Z7 - It becomes the new D7xxx, but with a higher pixel count. A lot of amateur wildlife guys would kill for a 45 MPx APC camera, that makes their 180-600 behave like a 250-840 without any Fstop loss, there is likely a decent market to address there
That sounds like it would be an awesome camera.
Personally I think Nikon can use to make a Z70 (Z version of the D7xxx series / D500) and a Z7III that full frame. Right now the Z full frame line up looks like this:
That leaves a gap of 1,000 - 1,500 to fill with a Z7. 2,500 to even 3,500 is a 40% price increase. So a photography on a budget probably won't even think of comparing a Z6III to a Z8. I may be totally wrong my guess is in about 2 years Nikons line up will end up looking something like the following:
You're mistaken. Clients absolutely do this. I'm not saying they're right, I'm saying they do it. When I owned an A7 I was once asked when I was going to upgrade to a man's camera.
DWOfPaul wrote:
That sounds like it would be an awesome camera.
Personally I think Nikon can use to make a Z70 (Z version of the D7xxx series / D500) and a Z7III that full frame. Right now the Z full frame line up looks like this:
That leaves a gap of 1,000 - 1,500 to fill with a Z7. 2,500 to even 3,500 is a 40% price increase. So a photography on a budget probably won't even think of comparing a Z6III to a Z8. I may be totally wrong my guess is in about 2 years Nikons line up will end up looking something like the following:
This will allow people to chose there model based on price points about 25% away from each other. ...Show more →
Whilst price points are important, once you get to Z6 III pricing and above I don’t think it’s the dominant criteria anymore. The right product mix becomes more important imo.
So we have a $2500 Z6 III and $4k Z8 ($3500 street price).
In between for a Z7 III I think it’d be a Z6 III sized body with either:
- Z7 II sensor partially stacked (if possible) @$3k
- IMX366 at around $3k too if stacking the Z7 II sensor is not possible
- partially stacked 61-80MP at $3.5-$4k
Anything above 80MP I think a partial stack might not be adequate to maintain the bandwidth for some of the other video streams (AF, scene recognition, EVF etc) so I think it’d have to be full stacked in which case I no longer think we’re talking about a z7 III model but maybe a Z9II or other at $5k or more.
I also think 40MP DX is coming. But nothing to do with Z7 III other than maybe both sharing a body with the Z6 III.
A year or two or so ago, there was some talk about possible high resolution body, not neccessarily 61mp sensor but may be even higher. However, lately there is no further rumor that I heard at all.
Most likely we will see a D500 replacement and Z9 ii or Z9s or whatever before a Z7 iii will show up as
far as I know. However Nikon appears to be a bit more compartmentalized now a day so not everyone at Nikon knows about every development that is going on. So while I have not heard anything about Z7 iii lately, it does not mean that it is not under development.
suteetat wrote:
A year or two or so ago, there was some talk about possible high resolution body, not neccessarily 61mp sensor but may be even higher. However, lately there is no further rumor that I heard at all.
Most likely we will see a D500 replacement and Z9 ii or Z9s or whatever before a Z7 iii will show up as
far as I know. However Nikon appears to be a bit more compartmentalized now a day so not everyone at Nikon knows about every development that is going on. So while I have not heard anything about Z7 iii lately, it does not mean that it is not under development. ...Show more →
Makes me think Z9 II and Z7 III models may be EXPEED 8 gen models if Nikon has ambitions to crunch some big numbers.
A Nikon Rep said that Nikon was evaluating the market for a Z7III. That means it's likely not even in development at this point. So i wouldn't expect one till next year some time, miss to 2nd half of the year
I personally didn't think there much room for a Z7III with the Z6III at $2500 and the Z8 in the $3500-$3900 range. Who in their right mind would pay $3000-$3300 when for $200-$600 more you could get a Z8.
If Nikon process the Z6III AT $1800-$2000 there would have been a sleeve for a Z7III in the $2700+$2900 but that is it the window now
Eric214 wrote:
Who in their right mind would pay $3000-$3300 when for $200-$600 more you could get a Z8.
The vast majority of the camera buying public who find the size and weight of the Z9/8 objectionable. That is who. That is one reason that the Z9/8 cameras have not moved Nikon's market share much.
The reality is that there are a lot of people who can take a photo that passes for decent these days. A lot of a photographer's business comes down to the perception clients and potential clients have of you. Don't get me wrong: walking around with a giant camera won't make up for lousy results, but assuming you can actually put out good work, I think it helps. I've literally been offered work before because of the size of my camera. I hate writing that sentence because it sounds pretty dumb, but ultimately it's true.
Apart from that, I just like the feel of the larger body. For about a year I had a D500 and a z7ii simultaneously and while I liked some things about each, I always liked the feel and ergonomics of the larger, heavier D500. When I went to pick that one up after using the z7ii for a while I'd always feel more comfortable and more confident in the camera. I don't think this is that unusual an idea: most of us feel this way about many products. You'll pick one up and say, "this feels a bit cheap," while after holding another you'll say, "this feels solid, like a quality product." Heck, most reviewers of camera gear still comment on this sort of experience to this day, even as smaller, lighter cameras are more popular than ever. Maybe it goes back to cavemen choosing which rock to use to bash something with; I don't know, but regardless there is something I find very "instinctive" about preferring a slightly heavier, meatier device over a smaller, lighter one.
Eric214 wrote:
A Nikon Rep said that Nikon was evaluating the market for a Z7III. That means it's likely not even in development at this point. So i wouldn't expect one till next year some time, miss to 2nd half of the year
I personally didn't think there much room for a Z7III with the Z6III at $2500 and the Z8 in the $3500-$3900 range. Who in their right mind would pay $3000-$3300 when for $200-$600 more you could get a Z8.
If Nikon process the Z6III AT $1800-$2000 there would have been a sleeve for a Z7III in the $2700+$2900 but that is it the window now...Show more →
The Z6/Z7 camera's up until now were released in tandem, but no longer. Likewise the product team probably didn't feel the need since we have the Z8 now. With the Z8 just now starting to age, we're probably going to be some discounts coming which would put the squeeze Z7iii pricing. I could see Nikon doing one in the future if enough users clamor for it and sales slump.
It's a good time to be a Nikon shooter with a complete Mirrorless FX line-up. Something we haven't had until now.
Ultimately, we can only speculate at the moment.
Since there have been absolutely no rumors about a Z7 III so far, there is actually only a recent statement by Thom Hogan in the DPReview forum that could at least indicate the existence of a Z7 III in principle.
In any case, I don't see how his comment could be interpreted in any other way.
Sounds to me very clearly like the existence of a Z7 III.
Either way, I definitely belong to the potential clientele of a Z7 III.
The only real drawback for me with the Z6 III is the 24MP, otherwise the camera has all the essentials.
So a camera with 45MP, ideally also with a partially stacked sensor like the Z6 III, would be perfect for upgrading.
A non-stacked sensor of the IMX366 or IMX455 category would also be very welcome, if the Nikon focus is on maximum DR/BQ/noise performance.
If the Z8 remains the only high MP alternative with contemporary autofocus in the Z-system and no alternative for customers with a different focus/profile than the Z8 serves, then there will be no money from me for Nikon.
The price plays a subordinate role if the performance is right and the camera is more in line with my profile.
Nikon, bring a photo-centric camera with a 45MP+ sensor pushed to the limit in DR/noise/color depth, with the form factor of a Z6 III and you can happily have more money than you're asking for a Z8!
Lee Saxon wrote:
You're mistaken. Clients absolutely do this. I'm not saying they're right, I'm saying they do it. When I owned an A7 I was once asked when I was going to upgrade to a man's camera.
Thankfully all my clients were professional editors, art directors and creative directors with a vast knowledge of the photographic process. The only client who questioned my choice of camera was a camera manufacturer that wanted to check that I'd used one of their cameras for creating their own promotional work.
Now, if your clients consist of the child's mother or the bride's father then yes, all bets are off. Give 'em a biggun!
SCoombs wrote:
The reality is that there are a lot of people who can take a photo that passes for decent these days. A lot of a photographer's business comes down to the perception clients and potential clients have of you. Don't get me wrong: walking around with a giant camera won't make up for lousy results, but assuming you can actually put out good work, I think it helps. I've literally been offered work before because of the size of my camera. I hate writing that sentence because it sounds pretty dumb, but ultimately it's true.
Apart from that, I just like the feel of the larger body. For about a year I had a D500 and a z7ii simultaneously and while I liked some things about each, I always liked the feel and ergonomics of the larger, heavier D500. When I went to pick that one up after using the z7ii for a while I'd always feel more comfortable and more confident in the camera. I don't think this is that unusual an idea: most of us feel this way about many products. You'll pick one up and say, "this feels a bit cheap," while after holding another you'll say, "this feels solid, like a quality product." Heck, most reviewers of camera gear still comment on this sort of experience to this day, even as smaller, lighter cameras are more popular than ever. Maybe it goes back to cavemen choosing which rock to use to bash something with; I don't know, but regardless there is something I find very "instinctive" about preferring a slightly heavier, meatier device over a smaller, lighter one. ...Show more →
Thankfully all my clients were professional editors, art directors and creative directors with a vast knowledge of the photographic process. The only client who questioned my choice of camera was a camera manufacturer that wanted to check that I'd used one of their cameras for creating their own promotional work.
Now, if your clients consist of the child's mother or the bride's father then yes, all bets are off. Give 'em a biggun!
Eric214 wrote:
A Nikon Rep said that Nikon was evaluating the market for a Z7III. That means it's likely not even in development at this point. So i wouldn't expect one till next year some time, miss to 2nd half of the year
I personally didn't think there much room for a Z7III with the Z6III at $2500 and the Z8 in the $3500-$3900 range. Who in their right mind would pay $3000-$3300 when for $200-$600 more you could get a Z8.
If Nikon process the Z6III AT $1800-$2000 there would have been a sleeve for a Z7III in the $2700+$2900 but that is it the window now...Show more →
It took a bit for the Z8 to drop from $4k to $3.5k. If we're going to compare discounted pricing, the Z7iii will probably drop down to $2.5k to $2.7k while the Z6iii will drop down to $2k. There's your gap.
But yes I can see why Nikon is taking pause because the Z7 and Z7ii sales were dismal to say the least. But at the same time, that was also because it was using very medicocre last generation tech. I'm going to guess they're just waiting it out this EXPEED7 generation and let the popular cameras take it's course for the powers that be to earn some confidence back before reintroducing the Z7 line back with EXPEED8.
unchecked wrote:
It took a bit for the Z8 to drop from $4k to $3.5k. If we're going to compare discounted pricing, the Z7iii will probably drop down to $2.5k to $2.7k while the Z6iii will drop down to $2k. There's your gap.
But yes I can see why Nikon is taking pause because the Z7 and Z7ii sales were dismal to say the least. But at the same time, that was also because it was using very medicocre last generation tech. I'm going to guess they're just waiting it out this EXPEED7 generation and let the popular cameras take it's course for the powers that be to earn some confidence back before reintroducing the Z7 line back with EXPEED8....Show more →
But that's going to take a year IF they drop the price of the Z6III and at that point what's the point of a a Z7III? I don't think there will be a Z7III. It just has no place. That is what Nikon is saying when they say they are evaluating the market. Sounds like they are saying not likely but will monitor the market and see if anything changes
They've used that expression many times and followed with a product meeting the requested need.
While the Z8 and Z9 are great cameras, you are paying for the high speed and some are unhappy with the weight and size of these products. For some users, a smaller high-resolution sensor with less speed would be ideal. The Z7 II is that, but has a dated processor and firmware feature set, EVF etc. While any of the Z7 II, Z8 and Z9 serve applications with high image quality requirements, and are much better at it than cameras available (say) 10 years ago, people like to be pampered with new products and think they should be the ones to whom the products are custom-designed. In reality, some sets of requirements are either more common among the customer base or for some reason a high priority for the manufacturer and not everyone is going to get a model which answers to their specific needs and nothing else.
Fujifilm and Hasselblad make 33 mm x 44 mm cameras where high image quality is the foremost priority and they have 100 MP and higher dynamic range than the Z7 II. If Nikon does not satisfy the needs of a particular shooter with high image quality priority, perhaps they should consider those MF products.
Eric214 wrote:
But that's going to take a year IF they drop the price of the Z6III and at that point what's the point of a a Z7III? I don't think there will be a Z7III. It just has no place. That is what Nikon is saying when they say they are evaluating the market. Sounds like they are saying not likely but will monitor the market and see if anything changes
Asking Nikon to consider medium format when we already know Z lenses can't be used on such a mount despite their very large mount diameter means Nikon would also need to launch a line of MF lenses. Have fun waiting around for THAT to happen.
You can buy a GFX 100S for under $3000 regularly now. If you really want a better "slow" camera, there's no reason to wait, and it will outperform from an IQ perspective whatever a Z7iii turns out to be.
My guess is you'll be able to get a 100S II for about $4000 by time any Z7iii turns up. That would be an interesting comparison.
