fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8              10       11       12       end
  

Archive 2024 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8

  
 
Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #1 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


It’s funny how the comments morphed from ‘it’s just a Panasonic’ to ‘it’s a great, enjoyable to use camera’ once actual owners/users checked in.




Aug 31, 2024 at 07:32 PM
Al B
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #2 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


Ordered my DL8 back in July. I am told it may be year out from my Leica dealer
in Vancouver, BC. Still excited to get my hands on one but it’s discouraging
on the eta.




Sep 01, 2024 at 12:17 AM
crf59
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #3 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


I bought one and I actually like it very much. I previously had the Panasonic LX7 and it was a great carry around camera. This one is better in every tangible way. I compared this to a friend's D Lux 7 and there have been improvements. EVF for one. Focus is fast enough and the IQ seems to pretty good so far. My only gripe is I wish it had a smidge longer tele end - maybe 90mm like my LX7 had.

The build is good and it indeed looks like a mini-Q. Love that the UI is now similar to my SL3 and M11.

Anyway, it's a very enjoyable little camera to use and will make a great backup to my "real" Leicas for travel.



Sep 08, 2024 at 06:15 AM
RustyRus
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #4 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


I just printed to A2 shots I took at Whistler-

Really Really impressed by the quality of the prints that came from this little gem.

Also side note- The Canon 1100 printer is a beast



Sep 10, 2024 at 11:51 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #5 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


Desmolicious wrote:
It’s funny how the comments morphed from ‘it’s just a Panasonic’ to ‘it’s a great, enjoyable to use camera’ once actual owners/users checked in.


Let’s be honest...To put it kindly, the D-Lux 8’s sensor and format aren’t the most advanced these days. A similarly compact Fuji APS-C body would give you better image quality. But what makes the Leica special is its elegant design and simple controls, which are similar to their other cameras. This makes you want to take it with you more often and snap more photos, and most owners find this part really enjoyable.



Sep 10, 2024 at 12:41 PM
Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #6 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


Fred Miranda wrote:
Let’s be honest...To put it kindly, the D-Lux 8’s sensor and format aren’t the most advanced these days. A similarly compact Fuji APS-C body would give you better image quality. But what makes the Leica special is its elegant design and simple controls, which are similar to their other cameras. This makes you want to take it with you more often and snap more photos, and most owners find this part really enjoyable.


That is exactly it. All cameras are so good nowadays, what matters is if the design of it makes you enjoy using it. Because if it is fun to use, you will use it more and thus capture shots you may have missed because you did not take your higher end camera. As you don’t like using it so much.
Good design is key.



Sep 10, 2024 at 12:52 PM
hlansing
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #7 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


It’s the common design language of Leica’s user interface. I can pick up a Q3, and with relative ease also quickly use a SL3 and a D-Lux 8 without delving into 50 menu screens.

Desmolicious wrote:
That is exactly it. All cameras are so good nowadays, what matters is if the design of it makes you enjoy using it. Because if it is fun to use, you will use it more and thus capture shots you may have missed because you did not take your higher end camera. As you don’t like using it so much.
Good design is key.




Sep 10, 2024 at 12:59 PM
rollei35_warton
Offline
[X]
p.9 #8 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


I had a brief chance today to play one at a local camera store for only about 10 minutes.
I have to say I don't like it, I wouldn't buy it even if it were available to be sold to me.
Interestingly the store staff also suggested against buying it. In this words: old technology and specs, Panasonic re-brand stuff, not worth it.

I don't know why I don't like it, I just had 10 minutes to hold it, but I just don't feel it's right to me.



Sep 10, 2024 at 01:09 PM
1bwana1
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #9 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
I had a brief chance today to play one at a local camera store for only about 10 minutes.
I have to say I don't like it, I wouldn't buy it even if it were available to be sold to me.
Interestingly the store staff also suggested against buying it. In this words: old technology and specs, Panasonic re-brand stuff, not worth it.

I don't know why I don't like it, I just had 10 minutes to hold it, but I just don't feel it's right to me.


Well as you have said in previous posts elsewhere, "all zooms suck" and "I only have prime lenses", that pretty much eliminates the D-Lux 8 for you as it does have a zoom lens.

The store staff sounds rather misinformed, and financially biased. He cannot make a quick commission on a D-Lux 8 because the backorder list is so long. Think about how poorly your M11 compares in the market based on specifications and performance. Not well. Hell it doesn't even shoot video at all, is MF only, has a slow frame rate, few buttons, limited configurability, and much more. Yet you paid double, triple, or more that other camera systems with much better better specs. The Leica M shooting experience is so special. Leica works hard to make the Q cameras as much as possible the mirrorless version of that experience. They worked hard to make the D-Lux 8 the compact with zoom camera with similar experience. If one wants the Leica experience, in a small easy to carry around form factor, the D-Lux 8 is a good choice, and an acceptable value. I am guessing that the huge backorder list for the D-Lux 8 is primarily composed of those who already own other Leica cameras. For good reasons...



Sep 10, 2024 at 03:21 PM
rollei35_warton
Offline
[X]
p.9 #10 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8




1bwana1 wrote:
Well as you have said in previous posts elsewhere, "all zooms suck" and "I only have prime lenses", that pretty much eliminates the D-Lux 8 for you as it does have a zoom lens.

The store staff sounds rather misinformed, and financially biased. He cannot make a quick commission on a D-Lux 8 because the backorder list is so long. Think about how poorly your M11 compares in the market based on specifications and performance. Not well. Hell it doesn't even shoot video at all, is MF only, has a slow frame rate, few buttons, limited configurability, and much more. Yet
...Show more

Fair point. I didn’t have too much time with the camera to fully assess it but just by handling it I feel that my 10-year-old Sony rx100 ii is better.
But as I said, zooms suck. I got rid off Sony rx100 ii

Now I have Leica M system, Nikon Z, Fuji x-T50 all with prime lenses only.

Store staff might be ill-informed about the spec, but let’s be honest if we look at the spec only what has improved on dlux 8 over 7? I can hardly see any tangible improvements.



Sep 10, 2024 at 03:58 PM
1bwana1
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #11 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
Store staff might be ill-informed about the spec, but let’s be honest if we look at the spec only what has improved on dlux 8 over 7? I can hardly see any tangible improvements.


Very important things. The whole ergonomics of the camera has changed.

Starting with the body size and weight. Although it looks the same, it has different dimensions, and is lighter. This probably required a retooling of the body so it is entirely new in that sense.

The buttons, count, uses, quality and layout. It now conforms very closely to the Q camera line. Very different than prior versions, and anything that Panasonic produces for its own brand.

The rear screen is much improved.

The EVF is now OLED and much, improved.

The firmware, and menu system is now fully aligned with the Leica line of cameras.

Although the same resolution the sensor is now CMOS rather than MOS. The press, and apparently the store staff you ran into, ignore this difference. This change results in lower noise, increased dynamic range, thus better Image Quality. The CMOS sensor also uses less power resulting in better battery life. This new, more efficient, sensor likely has some impact on heat and video capabilities. Notably the D-Lux 7 had 30 minute video record time limitations, and the D-Lux 8 is unlimited.

Here are some more specific information on that.

"MOS (Metal Oxide Semiconductor):
This is a general term for a semiconductor technology where the insulating layer between the gate and the channel is made of metal oxide, often used in various sensors that detect changes in electrical properties when exposed to a target substance like gas.

CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor):
This is a specific design within MOS technology where both PMOS (positive channel) and NMOS (negative channel) transistors are used together in a complementary pair, resulting in better power efficiency and reduced noise in circuits."

We know that much of the internal circuitry has changed because the D-Lux 8 uses different ports, charging, image transfer, wireless communications components/protocols, and card slots. We don't know the full extent of internal changes, although eventually someone will do a tear down and give us more insight. They appear to be significant.

The camera now produces DNG RAW files like all other current leica camera models.

Since so much has changed in the firmware, and circuitry, I would not be surprised to learn that the processor has changed as well to accommodate those things.

The lens hasn't changed. This is in keeping with leica's treatment of it's other camera lines. The Q(1-3) lens also hasn't change between generations. leica says that the existing lens is fully optimized and no improvement is needed. If you look at the M line of lenses, and even the SL line of lenses they tend to be left alone for very long periods of time.

So, yes if you just look at the camera from the outside it doesn't look like much has changed. But when you dig deeper it is easy to see that most everything has in fact changed and been improved. Most importantly, the workflow and shooting experience is now fully in alignment with the Leica philosophy. Panasonic has never offered that kind of camera. As I have said, the sales staff that said otherwise is very poorly informed about this.

None of that changes much for you however. You will not shoot a camera with a zoom lens. You didn't like the form factor. So, our conversation here is purely academic. Hopefully some may find it useful. Which is why I spent the time to participate.





Sep 10, 2024 at 05:09 PM
rollei35_warton
Offline
[X]
p.9 #12 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


1bwana1 wrote:
Very important things. The whole ergonomics of the camera has changed.

Starting with the body size and weight. Although it looks the same, it has different dimensions, and is lighter. This probably required a retooling of the body so it is entirely new in that sense.

The buttons, count, uses, quality and layout. It now conforms very closely to the Q camera line. Very different than prior versions, and anything that Panasonic produces for its own brand.

The rear screen is much improved.

The EVF is now OLED and much, improved.

The firmware, and menu system is now fully aligned with the Leica
...Show more

I appreciate your writing and it is helpful, useful and educational. I didn't know half of those improvements, even though I don't think they are tangible and meaningful improvements to me.
But as I said, I don't like it, I won't buy it with current spec no matter at what price level.
I have been a long time Nikon F and Z user, and now Leica M user with a Fuji x-t50 + 27 pancake as a side camera. I don't see D-Lux8 fit in a place.

By the way, one thing I don't understand is that why Leica still uses 4/3 sensor. To me 4/3 means cheaper, inferior to APS-C. I have never owned or used any 4/3 sensor camera



Sep 10, 2024 at 08:22 PM
1bwana1
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #13 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
By the way, one thing I don't understand is that why Leica still uses 4/3 sensor. To me 4/3 means cheaper, inferior to APS-C. I have never owned or used any 4/3 sensor camera


They chose the 4/3 sensor for size and form factor reasons. To make a zoom lens with the focal length range, the optical quality, and with a fast F stop like the D-Lux 8 has would have required comparatively large lens in order to cover an APS-C sensor. This is also the reason that the other manufacturers who want to make a small form factor camera with an APS-C sensor use prime lenses instead of zooms. Just look at the size of fast APS-C interchangeable 24mm - 75mm lenses. They are huge when compared to the lens on the D-Lux 8. Also keep in mind that the D-Lux 8 lens has Auto Focus, Image stabilization, and a Leaf Shutter. It is a major accomplishment by Leica to keep it so feature rich, and so small.

We must choose our compromises. Judging by the gear you have it doesn't seem that small size, and light weight are a priority for you. The Nikon F DSLR, Z Mirrorless cameras and lenses are most often the largest and heaviest in their respective performance classes.



Sep 10, 2024 at 09:10 PM
Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #14 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


Maybe this will help @rollei35_warton




The Fuji XE4 has the equivalent focal length as the Leica, except even though it is vastly bigger it is two stops slower.



Sep 10, 2024 at 09:43 PM
1bwana1
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #15 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


Desmolicious wrote:
Maybe this will help @rollei35_warton@@@

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53986671886_3223d5605f_b.jpg

The Fuji XE4 has the equivalent focal length as the Leica, except even though it is vastly bigger it is two stops slower.



Exactly. It is actually a very impressive accomplishment what Leica has done with the D-Lux 8. It is not a camera for everyone. Probably not for the vast majority. It will be misunderstood by the najority of the market. For some like me it is a unique and desirable camera.



Sep 10, 2024 at 10:09 PM
rollei35_warton
Offline
[X]
p.9 #16 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


1bwana1 wrote:
They chose the 4/3 sensor for size and form factor reasons. To make a zoom lens with the focal length range, the optical quality, and with a fast F stop like the D-Lux 8 has would have required comparatively large lens in order to cover an APS-C sensor. This is also the reason that the other manufacturers who want to make a small form factor camera with an APS-C sensor use prime lenses instead of zooms. Just look at the size of fast APS-C interchangeable 24mm - 75mm lenses. They are huge when compared to the lens on the D-Lux
...Show more

Sorry I meant to say Nikon D. The F I bought 20 years ago was sitting duck collecting dust.

Nikon Z and D never travel with me abroad. I use them for indoor family event, Z is mostly used for portrait with controlled lightings, and D850 was converted to full-spectrum IR camera taking scenery/landscaping on road trips.

I only take Leica M with one lens and the x-t50 travelling abroad. (I define abroad as anywhere vehicle cannot reach, so the whole North America is domestic to me). So I do value size as the highest priority



Sep 10, 2024 at 10:20 PM
rollei35_warton
Offline
[X]
p.9 #17 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


1bwana1 wrote:
Exactly. It is actually a very impressive accomplishment what Leica has done with the D-Lux 8. It is not a camera for everyone. Probably not for the vast majority. It will be misunderstood by the najority of the market. For some like me it is a unique and desirable camera.


You can be impressed by Sony RX100 because it has insane range of zoom but smaller than d-lux8. But you are not impressed, why? because we know this comparison is meaningless, rx100 is 1" sensor.

Same logic, comparing 4/3 and aps-c sensors like this is meaningless.

With 4/3 sensor and this range of zoom, d-lux8 is hardly impressive. Leica has done nothing revolutionary here.

What I meant to say is 4/3 sensor is just outdated, Leica should move away from it.. Leica not doing anything new in CL line is just a mistake.



Sep 10, 2024 at 10:31 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #18 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
To me 4/3 means cheaper, inferior to APS-C. I have never owned or used any 4/3 sensor camera


How much difference do you think there is between APS-C vs. m43
Kinda splittin' hairs a bit on that one, maybe.



I've shot with my little GX8 and PL 15/1.8 ... it's quality was so compelling, that I decide to "climb the ladder" of Leica into the CL and eventually the different FF variants. When I compared the MTF charts, I seemed as though the PL15/1.8 was very similar to the Leica Q's Summilux, just scaled down to m43.

The thing that makes (imo) the most difference is the quality of the glass you put in front of the film plane / sensor. Heck, I've even used smaller than m43 sensor with PL Bridge cameras that I tested against two non-PL FF cameras, and wound up using my Bridge camera instead of my FF ... the IQ was too close to call (and that was comparing 300mm prime lens vs. the Bridge zoom).

Imo, the difference in sensor size between an APS-C vs. m43 isn't "that much", even less so, if you're talking about Canon's APS-C.


So, if you want to buy a "cheap" m43 rig, with cheap m43 glass ... then yeah, you'll get what you pay for, and it may rear its head as "inferior" to APS-C.

OTOH, if you've never shot m43 with great glass, then there's really not much merit for the assertion of (significant) inferiority to be assumed.

Size has its place for certain things, but (imo) the difference in optical engineering excellence trumps the minor difference in sensor size between APS-C vs. m43. So, if the pixel density is otherwise (nearly) the same, between an APS-C vs. m43 ... where would the "inferiority" (allegedly) come from?



Short version: Don't knock it, till ya try it.

From what I've seen of those who are actually putting out images with it here ... it's worth a look, before dismissing it on such a narrow margin of sensor size alone. I think this is one of those things where the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts, for those who are willing to actually put it to use ... noting the use of a leaf shutter being incorporated, as well in such a small package. From what I can see of those who are actually using it, so far ... they're making it look pretty good. Of course, maybe that's just the talent of the photographer, too.



Those who never try to find out ... will never really know.






Sep 10, 2024 at 10:53 PM
Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #19 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
You can be impressed by Sony RX100 because it has insane range of zoom but smaller than d-lux8. But you are not impressed, why? because we know this comparison is meaningless, rx100 is 1" sensor.

Same logic, comparing 4/3 and aps-c sensors like this is meaningless.

With 4/3 sensor and this range of zoom, d-lux8 is hardly impressive. Leica has done nothing revolutionary here.

What I meant to say is 4/3 sensor is just outdated, Leica should move away from it.. Leica not doing anything new in CL line is just a mistake.


RX100? Nope. Look at the control layout and lack of viewfinder. Things that makes the D-Lux 8 so enjoyable are the haptics ,build and intuitive design. Something the RX100 lacks.




Sep 11, 2024 at 12:36 AM
1bwana1
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #20 · Leica Announces Leica D-Lux 8


rollei35_warton wrote:
You can be impressed by Sony RX100 because it has insane range of zoom but smaller than d-lux8. But you are not impressed, why? because we know this comparison is meaningless, rx100 is 1" sensor.

Same logic, comparing 4/3 and aps-c sensors like this is meaningless.

With 4/3 sensor and this range of zoom, d-lux8 is hardly impressive. Leica has done nothing revolutionary here.

What I meant to say is 4/3 sensor is just outdated, Leica should move away from it.. Leica not doing anything new in CL line is just a mistake.


I only mentioned APS-C because you brought it up.

My primary assertion that the D-Lux 8 represents a true Leica shooting experience with Leica quality in a small form factor remains.

Judging by what you say, it is not a good fit for you. That is fine. I am not trying to change yoir mind on this. I just think it meaningful to to others to sort out the misconceptions and lack of in depth knowledge of the camera expressed in some of your posts.



Sep 11, 2024 at 01:11 AM
1       2       3              8              10       11       12       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8              10       11       12       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account