p.2 #1 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
And I intend to buy a 105mm portrait lens next week that is also a non CPU lens so will be interesting if the eye detection green box and IVF works on that puppy
p.2 #2 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
Something important to consider about this problem is that Nikon has a long history of using it's firmware to assure that features are enabled for Nikon products, while sometimes disabling them when competitors products are recognized.
I own a Nikon DSLR that will not boot the AF and auto-metering circuits if turned on with a specific non-Nikon lens mounted on the camera, but is completely compatible with the lens if it is mounted after the camera is turned on. specifically, the boot-up sequence recognizes a chipped non-Nikon lens and fails to initialize the AF and metering systems. But if the lens is mounted after the boot-up sequence is completed, the camera works normally with the lens. This is an obvious case where the lens is compatible, but the firmware boot sequence fails when detecting a lens that identifies itself as a non-Nikon product. Was this purposeful firmware design or just an oversight? Either way it demonstrates that the lens is compatible with everything in the camera except the boot-up sequence, where it fails the Nikon branding test.
A Nikon DSLR uses the lens bus to poll the lens CPU to inquire about it's features. A compatible Nikon lens will properly identify itself to the camera and firmware features are enabled. If a non-compatible Nikon product is on the bus and it fails to provide the anticipated response, there are two possible outcomes -- the Nikon camera doesn't recognize the lens as being feature-compatible, with the result that it fails to activate a feature, or the Nikon camera recognizes the lens as a non-compatible product and deliberately de-activates a feature. In addition to identifying whether an lens is compatible vs. non-compatible, the firmware will also poll the lens for it's manufacturer ID. It's also possible that the firmware uses manufacturer ID in making a decision about what features to enable or disable.
A dumb adapter defeats the process of polling on the lens bus. It blocks the polling process and no response is received. When a positive response is not received in response to a specific query, the firmware either fails to enable or deliberately disables a feature. There's no way to know how the coder who wrote the firmware anticipated the results of a failed response. They probably expect users to be using the prescribed Nikon adapter and built their logic tables around appropriate responses from an FTZ. If you deliberately circumvent the use of an FTZ then the firmware logic tables are not going to receive appropriate responses, with unpredictable results to follow.
The fact that the red-to-green box focus confirmation can be made to work when an FTZ is not used is pretty good evidence that Nikon uses the FTZ bus to allow information to pass on the bus and uses that information to disable that feature when it recognizes a specific condition exists. This firmware response is disabled through the use of dumb adapters or stacking adapters to block the bus signals. There's no reason to expect that the logic tables in the firmware regarding focus indication and IBIS were coded the same way, so there should be no expectations about how the two features would perform if bus signalling is blocked. One would have to perform their own tests to build the truth tables to identify such behavior.
What the observations in the video do tell us is that the red-to-green focus confirmation works independently of distance data being provided by the lens, it's proper function is made possible only by the data provided by the autofocus mechanism, and that Nikon uses it's firmware to deliberately block the feature for some test conditions. By using a dumb adapter, the firmware's signal to inhibit the focus box is blocked, thereby allowing it to work.
Using features of the firmware to recognize lenses and disable camera features is a deliberate effort to compel people to change their behavior. It's meant to encourage users to upgrade.
For those who are thinking about blocking contacts on the adapter, that's not how modern busses work. A stream of multiplexed data, not just one bit, is probably being transmitted on the connectors.
p.2 #3 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
I did some prodding in the comments of the original youtube page of the above video, and another user posted a couple of comments that might be useful ... (Comments at the top.)
p.2 #5 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
snoogly wrote:
I did some prodding in the comments of the original youtube page of the above video, and another user posted a couple of comments that might be useful ... (Comments at the top.)
As for me, I am sending my adapter back today for a refund.
There is another comment claiming that the self-reported focal length and aperture of the adapter are in a text file if you connect it to a pc. Did you try that by any chance?
If one could change this it makes the adapter more interesting imo. One could buy several and use them to „chip“ specific lenses.
p.2 #6 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
Yes, I saw the text file. But I am sure that it is just reporting what is in the firmware.
In an ideal world one could just change the text file to match the lens being used - but I did not want to try this, at the risk of mucking up the adapter - which would make a refund less likely.
p.2 #7 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
I never had IBIS until now, so I wouldn't worry too much about it not working insanely well with a longer focal length.
I've had plenty of bad experiences with focus-peaking being simply not reliable, though. (and my eyesight is simply not good enough for me to reliably judge micro contrast when focusing manually on eyes)
And I simply don't care for "push button to magnify to 100% and kill your composition while at it"..
the Nikon ZF can confirm your accurate manual focus using its PDAF sytem but only if it thinks it's using a chipped lens.
That's a real shame, because we no longer need to fiddle with Dandelion chips and micro AF adjustments to align the lens with the often strangely aligned DLSR af modules, since the PDAF sensors are ON the image sensor itself.
It works flawlessly with my Nikon AF-S (on the FTZ II adapter) lenses where I can switch to manual focus and the camera will recognise and track the eyes of my subject, and the focus box will light up green when my focus (set manually) is spot on.
I got a Megadap ETZ21 adapter, but that doesn't work unfortunately. (It's supposedly incredibly good with Sony E lenses, but I own none of those)
Since I own many Leica R lenses that I absolutely WANT to use on my digital camera, I have bought a Leica R to Sony E adapter from K&F Concept (fantastic quality, wonderful fit!) but the Megadap doesn't allow focus confirmation with this. It's a real shame, because it does recognise the eyes and track them.
Returning it now and ordering a Neewer NW-ETZ instead, hoping that will solve my issue.
(I've literally been waiting for this solution for half a decade now. Made several posts regarding this and never got ANY useful help. Nikon seriously dropped the ball with the ZF not allowing for that simple focus aide with unchipped lenses! It doesn't even need to be 100% accurate, but it's so much better and faster than focus peaking already!)
p.2 #8 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
On a relates note, the MTZ autofocus adapters also enable green focus point confirmation on Nikon Z bodies with any adapted lens (including non cpu coupled lenses). VERY useful feature. I’ve personally used the Megadap MTZ and now use the Techart MTZii. Great way to use any adapted lens and get accurate focus confirmation.
p.2 #9 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
I never had IBIS until now, so I wouldn't worry too much about it not working insanely well with a longer focal length.
The problem is not so much that it won't work well, the problem is that it will actively cause some of your images to become blurry when the focal length is set incorrectly. If you don't care about IBIS it's probably best to disable it completely instead of using it with a wrongly communicated focal length.
mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
Since I own many Leica R lenses that I absolutely WANT to use on my digital camera
Do your Leica R lenses have M mount equivalents with the same focal length? If so you could buy several R-to-M adapters and add matching 6-bit codes to the adapter. You then stack that on top of a TTartisan 6-bit adapter and you get focus confirmation.
The downside is of course that you'd have to buy one adapter per lens and basically keep it on the lens all the time.
I also ran into some vignetting issues with my Nikon F -> Leica M -> TTartisan combo with the 50mm f1.4. My guess is that the F-to-M adapter introduced that as it's relatively narrow.
Honestly not sure what Nikon think they're gaining by not enabling this functionality for all lenses. They could even make it a toggle similar to non-CPU shooting
p.2 #10 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
That TTArtisan MTZ adapter looks intriguing for sure.
Looks like you don't even need the 6-bit chips for the R-M adapters, since you can adjust the focal length on the adapter itself. (That should even enable proper IBIS in the camera, then)
If they release a mkII of this that offers more customisation for the focal length and maybe even a max aperture setting (it appears to be f/0.95 without a chipped lens attached), I would probably buy one in a pinch.
I have the following lenses:
28/2.8, 50/2, 60/2.8 Macro, 90/2, 135/2.8, 180/2.8
Lusting for a 21/4 Super-Angulon to complete my collection.
Right now, I'm waiting for my Neewer Adapter. If that ends up working properly, I'll be a happy camper and can wait patiently for a "better" solution that even allows for potent IBIS, too.
(I will run some tests to see how IBIS is handled with the 180mm to test for shake-issues)
p.2 #12 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
If they release a mkII of this that offers more customisation for the focal length and maybe even a max aperture setting (it appears to be f/0.95 without a chipped lens attached), I would probably buy one in a pinch.
The perfect solution would be if we had 6 custom settings on the dial instead of the 6 specific focal lengths the adapter has right now. With the option to set those to any focal length via USB or an app. If it could also display the focal length it’s currently set to via a small OLED screen or so that would be amazing.
You can change the aperture on the camera and that’s then recorded to EXIF. The only limitation is that it only goes down to f5.6
p.2 #13 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
Still looking for a way to get the green fokus confirm box on Z7 (firmware 3.7) with Zeiss classic ZF or ZF.2.
Does the Viltrox NF-Z do the trick, or any other single adapter?
Voigtländer 15/4.5 for Z works on Z7 (already with firmware 3.31 as I found out earlier), but not the ZF.2 with FTZ I.
So F to M adapter stacked with TT Artisan 6 bit M to Z should work with Zf.2 (chipped) but not ZF (not chipped) - right? Or does it workt with the non chipped lens as well?
What F to M adapters have you used? Does K & F work?
p.2 #14 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
I am using a Z7, firmware 3.7, which should behave the same as the ZF regarding the green box.
I have now tried several old F lenses, whether the green box works or not
on FTZ (1):
AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8 D - green box works as single box, AF doesn't
AF Nikkor 28-105mm 3.5-4.5 D - green box works as single box, AF doesn't
AF Nikkor. 80-200mm 1:2.8 D - green box works as single box, AF doesn't
All lenses have 4 plus 1 pin in the lens thread
Zeiss 25/2.0 ZF.2 and 50/2.0 ZF.2 - green box doesn't work
Leica R 108-280 ans 280/4.0 on a leitaxed to Nikon F 2x converter (no pins) - green box doesn't work
AF-S Nikkor 80-400 4.5-5.6 G D N - green box works, AF works, and mutliple boxes also work well. Also the white/yellow box for follow focus. Surprise!
This lens has ten contact pins in the lens thread, whereas the mount of the Z7 has 11 pins.
So for my old stuff, it mostly doesn't work.
Will look into replacing the Zeiss ZF lenses by ZM lenses plus TT Artisan 6 bit M to Z.
p.2 #16 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
The AF-D lenses cannot work with AF, because they don't actually have an AF motor built-in..
they need a screw-driver AF motor from the camera.
Some people demand Nikon build an FTZ adapter with screwdriver motor, but I find that a little silly.. just let those 20+ year old lenses be and sell them to people getting into photography with old DSLRs.
You can use IBIS with those Leica lenses, because the camera can be told its using an unchipped lens and you can enter the focal length for them.
If you want to use the focus confirmation, you should get the TTArtisan M-Z 6bit adapter, or the Neewer NW-EZ and adapt those lenses to Leica M or Sony E mount..
Neither of the Leicas will have properly working IBIS, though, because the Neewer is fixed to 50mm (can be changed by editing the txt file on the adapter) and the TTArtisan cannot go higher than 135mm.
The Zeiss ZF.2 lenses are a real shame, honestly.. I always wanted to get a Milvus 50mm, but Nikon fumbled that ball..
Can the FTZ at least control the aperture of that Zeiss 25mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 ? (that's possible on the DSLR, no?)
Aug 25, 2024 at 05:52 AM
rollei35_warton Offline [X]
p.2 #17 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
The AF-D lenses cannot work with AF, because they don't actually have an AF motor built-in..
they need a screw-driver AF motor from the camera.
Some people demand Nikon build an FTZ adapter with screwdriver motor, but I find that a little silly.. just let those 20+ year old lenses be and sell them to people getting into photography with old DSLRs.
You can use IBIS with those Leica lenses, because the camera can be told its using an unchipped lens and you can enter the focal length for them.
If you want to use the focus confirmation, you should get the TTArtisan M-Z 6bit adapter, or the Neewer NW-EZ and adapt those lenses to Leica M or Sony E mount..
Neither of the Leicas will have properly working IBIS, though, because the Neewer is fixed to 50mm (can be changed by editing the txt file on the adapter) and the TTArtisan cannot go higher than 135mm.
The Zeiss ZF.2 lenses are a real shame, honestly.. I always wanted to get a Milvus 50mm, but Nikon fumbled that ball..
Can the FTZ at least control the aperture of that Zeiss 25mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 ? (that's possible on the DSLR, no?)...Show more →
Did I misunderstand?
I have an old Nikon AF-D 50/1.8 lens adapted via FTZ2 to Zf, I use manual focus of course but I see the box turns green when it’s focused. Isn’t that focus confirmation we are talking about?
p.2 #18 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
Can the FTZ at least control the aperture of that Zeiss 25mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 ? (that's possible on the DSLR, no?)
This is with Z7 and FTZ (1) latest firmware, I don't own a ZF:
Zeiss ZF.2: Yes, you actually need to set it on smallest apperture and control the apperture via the body. You see the set apperture in the viewinder, and you get the set apperture and the lens in the EXIF.
Zeiss .ZF: You can programm the Zeiss .ZF lenses as non CPU lenses. The actual apperture reading in the viewfinder says " -- ".You get the lens mm and the largest apperture in EXIF, but not the actual apperture while the picture has been shot. The Nikon D750 does better, there you see the actual apperture in the viewfinder, and get full EXIF information.
This is why I still prefer to use my 9 Zeisses with the D750, rather then with the Z7.
As it seems, the ZF isn't better in this respect, although I haven't heard of anyone using Zeiss ZF/ZF.2 with the Nikon ZF body.
p.2 #19 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
On all Z bodies, if the lens is chipped as said, you must set the aperture to fully closed down on the lens and then control via camera body controls. This honestly kills the experience for me, personally, for adapting chipped lenses.
p.2 #20 · Nikon Zf with non-chipped lens and focus confirmation
rollei35_warton wrote:
I have an old Nikon AF-D 50/1.8 lens adapted via FTZ2 to Zf, I use manual focus of course but I see the box turns green when it’s focused. Isn’t that focus confirmation we are talking about?
Yes, that is the one. The thing is, there is also eye recognition and follow focus with Manual lenses possible in the ZF. And this isn't supportet by the FTZ adapter, while it is supported by other adapters described in this thread. This is really a nuisance.
