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BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?

  
 
eyal
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I have been printing with Bay Photo for over 10 years. Have had a few prints that came back darker than I would have guessed from using their single soft proof profile on a calibrated Eizo monitor but they made those right. Also had more than a few damaged in shipping and/or be delayed far longer than expected. Overall, fairly satisfied.

I have moved from a Wordpress/NextGen site to PhotoDeck and the latter offers easy integration with both WHCC and Whitewall.

I used WHCC about 10-15 years ago but preferred Bay to them especially when I received a black and white metal print that came out with a strong green tint.

I know nothing of Whitewall but, as it happens, am going to be in NYC this weekend and can visit their shop/gallery in SoHo. Pricing for Whitewall is crazy high for smaller loose prints but evens out with Bay/WHCC once you cross to 16x16 or larger. The metals, etc seem comparable.

I would love to hear if anyone has more recent experience with WHCC and/or Whitewall for all manner of prints and print products.

Thanks!

Eyal



Apr 03, 2024 at 08:47 PM
mkuznicki
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I've never tried WHCC, so no input for them. However, ...

I've used Bay many times. I find the quality decent, production sloppy but customer service excellent. I've received many prints from them that had problems, but they've always been very quick to resolve the issue. They're very upfront about their equipment, papers, inks, etc.

I've used Whitewall, not as often as Bay but enough to get a feel for their products. I've been very happy with their quality, packaging and delivery times. The only issue I ever had was a package stuck in customs for a few days (not their fault). The reason I haven't used them more often is that they weren't willing/able to drop ship to US locations, so if I was ordering for a client I had to have it shipped to me first. The recent Photodeck integration is supposed to resolve that, but that's only been in place for about a month so I'm allowing some time for debugging before jumping in.



Apr 04, 2024 at 05:44 AM
silber
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I used White Wall recently for a high end acrylic print. The workmanship quality was outstanding; the packaging was quite sufficient; the delivery time was outstanding (4 days for time of order).

My only caution is this: if you are color managing your own work (which I recommend), be certain to leave the Image Optimization set to Off while making the order. Also, be sure to soft proof to their ICC profile. I found the Fugi paper used with the acrylic prints to have cool blue hue.

Their customer service is stellar. I was not satisfied with the first print and, without argument, they reprinted and shipped out a new print. Very satisfied.



Apr 04, 2024 at 12:21 PM
eyal
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


Thanks for addressing the Optimization setting and glad to hear your experience was so good.



silber wrote:
I used White Wall recently for a high end acrylic print. The workmanship quality was outstanding; the packaging was quite sufficient; the delivery time was outstanding (4 days for time of order).

My only caution is this: if you are color managing your own work (which I recommend), be certain to leave the Image Optimization set to Off while making the order. Also, be sure to soft proof to their ICC profile. I found the Fugi paper used with the acrylic prints to have cool blue hue.

Their customer service is stellar. I was not satisfied with the first print
...Show more



Apr 04, 2024 at 12:23 PM
gavin_emmons
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I have used Bay Photo and WHCC for many years. I have used Bay Photo more frequently over the years because of the extensive options on their ROES, but in the last couple years I have been less satisfied with results from them. I have been comparing proof prints from Bay Photo with WHCC recently and the WHCC results are much more consistent and higher quality. The Bay Photo prints often have washed out color, weak reds, and the prints occasionally have a white line border where they were not cut with precision. I have been getting Metal Prints from Bay Photo as well, and honestly the results are quite mixed - some look great in color and sharpness, and others are totally unacceptable in terms of sharpness, with ink sometimes missing as whitish dots on parts of the images.

To be fair, Bay Photo does have great customer service and they have reprinted photos at no charge. But i am going to try out more photo prints with WHCC in the future to revisit their products.

My favorite printing shop was Reed Photo in Denver, but sadly they went out of business a year or two ago. They had Gallery Mount and Gallery Flat prints that were stunning, and I haven't been able to find any other printing business that comes close to what they produced.



Apr 16, 2024 at 06:11 PM
tm255
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I have a question for you Bay Photo users. Short version: in Bayroes, do you specify "no correction" or do you "allow" correction?

Long version: After a lot of frustration of not having prints look right, I invested in a high end NEC monitor, calibrated it faithfully, calibrated the room light and kept it consistent, used the Bay Photo proof profile ...... and still got prints back that were "off" (with me specifying "no correction" because I had it set exactly right). What works for me now is to have Bay Photo do a small test print, adjust, another, adjust, etc. until it looks right and then print large. But with all that, I wonder why I need the NEC monitor. Last time just for the heck of it I did the test print specifying "correction allowed" and it looked pretty good so I'm wondering if that should just be my default.

I appreciate any comments!



May 06, 2024 at 07:11 AM
eyal
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


tm255 wrote:
I have a question for you Bay Photo users. Short version: in Bayroes, do you specify "no correction" or do you "allow" correction?

Long version: After a lot of frustration of not having prints look right, I invested in a high end NEC monitor, calibrated it faithfully, calibrated the room light and kept it consistent, used the Bay Photo proof profile ...... and still got prints back that were "off" (with me specifying "no correction" because I had it set exactly right). What works for me now is to have Bay Photo do a small test print, adjust, another, adjust, etc.
...Show more

I have been with Bay for a long time. Process on a calibrated Eizo. I do a mix of the above.

I have received prints with full color correction that printed too dark and, when I called them, was told per their notes that the images were darkened by them...

I tend to get them as Economy/no color correction (cheaper for loose prints) when ordering for delivery to me. Otherwise, do standard with color correction for drop shipping as that has their 100% print guarantee.



May 06, 2024 at 08:57 AM
tm255
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


eyal wrote:
I have been with Bay for a long time. Process on a calibrated Eizo. I do a mix of the above.

I have received prints with full color correction that printed too dark and, when I called them, was told per their notes that the images were darkened by them...

I tend to get them as Economy/no color correction (cheaper for loose prints) when ordering for delivery to me. Otherwise, do standard with color correction for drop shipping as that has their 100% print guarantee.


Thanks for the input! I'll give color correction with no "proof" print a try and if it is not right I'll depend on Bay Photo to re-do it.



May 07, 2024 at 08:09 AM
OntheRez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


ProPrints Been using for 10-12 years. Superb work. Extraordinary service. Highest recommendation. Will not deal with anyone else. They regularly have discount offers depending size, $$, etc.

Bluntly, the BEST I've ever dealt with. Oh yeah, the canvas printing is mind bogglingly good.



May 07, 2024 at 10:27 AM
eyal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


OntheRez wrote:
ProPrints Been using for 10-12 years. Superb work. Extraordinary service. Highest recommendation. Will not deal with anyone else. They regularly have discount offers depending size, $$, etc.

Bluntly, the BEST I've ever dealt with. Oh yeah, the canvas printing is mind bogglingly good.


Damn - and very inexpensive! I actually just ordered from CanvasHQ after finding some really good reviews of their products and thought they had a good price point vs Bay but ProPrints beats them handily.

Edit: I have been watching this guy's YT channel where he does excellent reviews of canvas, metal and now acrylic prints. Comments on packaging, tears off the backing and assesses the frame, printing, etc. I chose CanvasHQ based on his presentation and just found the ProPrints one. You are welcome to watch but it appears they use cardboard rather than wood framing - https://www.youtube.com/@photographytalk



May 07, 2024 at 01:26 PM
 


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OntheRez
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


ProPrints has the best pricing I found anywhere and the service is superb. I've had 3 instances where there were problems (including a metal print that had to have been bent in transport.) Fast, no questions. Sent new one. One time they even contacted me noting that they'd found a problem in the framing. Sent me a new one.

Sizing is incredible. Everything from 5x7 up to 40x60 (in 3:2 format) and panorama 30x60. I've done a few panoramas and mounted them vertical. A bit mind blowing. Canvas skeletons are wood and you can get them with simple frames. Early on I used the frames, but now I just like the 'painting on canvas' feel.

They also print on many materials from paper to metal to canvas to acrylic. All great.

Again,



May 08, 2024 at 11:11 AM
chez
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


eyal wrote:
Damn - and very inexpensive! I actually just ordered from CanvasHQ after finding some really good reviews of their products and thought they had a good price point vs Bay but ProPrints beats them handily.

Edit: I have been watching this guy's YT channel where he does excellent reviews of canvas, metal and now acrylic prints. Comments on packaging, tears off the backing and assesses the frame, printing, etc. I chose CanvasHQ based on his presentation and just found the ProPrints one. You are welcome to watch but it appears they use cardboard rather than wood framing - https://www.youtube.com/@photographytalk


I’d never sell a print of mine with a cardboard frame. That’s just cheap all around. I prefer to pay for quality and not dive down into the cheap end. Most things in life you get what you pay for…and that follows here. It’s like buying hardwood frame couches versus particle board couches…yes one is more expensive than the other, and there’s a reason.



May 08, 2024 at 12:26 PM
eyal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


chez wrote:
I’d never sell a print of mine with a cardboard frame. That’s just cheap all around. I prefer to pay for quality and not dive down into the cheap end. Most things in life you get what you pay for…and that follows here. It’s like buying hardwood frame couches versus particle board couches…yes one is more expensive than the other, and there’s a reason.


I'm waiting on a floating frame canvas order from one he reviewed showing excellent print quality and a wooden frame.



May 08, 2024 at 05:24 PM
chez
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?




eyal wrote:
I'm waiting on a floating frame canvas order from one he reviewed showing excellent print quality and a wooden frame.


I love floating frames for my canvas prints.



May 08, 2024 at 06:36 PM
eyal
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


My new float frame canvas from CanvasHQ arrived and it is amazing. Incredibly well packaged. Canvas printing is great. Solid wood frame in back. Nice touch of including my logo on the inside canvas wrap at the bottom.


May 12, 2024 at 02:00 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


I'll never use WHCC again, even though I used them for nearly two decades:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1802763/

I still use Bay (and have for many years), and will continue to use them. Although there is occasionally a glitch whether in physical production or printing process, they always make it right.



May 14, 2024 at 09:08 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


tm255 wrote:
I have a question for you Bay Photo users. Short version: in Bayroes, do you specify "no correction" or do you "allow" correction?

Long version: After a lot of frustration of not having prints look right, I invested in a high end NEC monitor, calibrated it faithfully, calibrated the room light and kept it consistent, used the Bay Photo proof profile ...... and still got prints back that were "off" (with me specifying "no correction" because I had it set exactly right). What works for me now is to have Bay Photo do a small test print, adjust, another, adjust, etc.
...Show more

If it's a large print I've spent time on, last thing I want is some automated algorithm 'correcting' it, thus I always choose 'No Correction', and have rarely had a problem.

My only problem with Bay is that they only have a single ICC profile, which makes less than zero sense, given the number of substrates that are available (I only use that ICC profile if I'm printing on something with limited gamut/range, e.g. deep matte). I have to assume they have some sort of automated adjustment that (internally) converts/adjusts a file for the substrate, otherwise their results would be all over the place.



May 14, 2024 at 09:15 AM
tm255
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


OntheRez wrote:
ProPrints Been using for 10-12 years. Superb work. Extraordinary service. Highest recommendation. Will not deal with anyone else. They regularly have discount offers depending size, $$, etc.

Bluntly, the BEST I've ever dealt with. Oh yeah, the canvas printing is mind bogglingly good.


Great to hear the recommendation!

How do you handle the prep/color correction? Do you tune exactly the way you want it then tell them "no correction" or do you let them have at it?

I want to get away from having to order multiple test prints, if possible.



May 15, 2024 at 07:01 AM
tm255
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


Jeff wrote:
If it's a large print I've spent time on, last thing I want is some automated algorithm 'correcting' it, thus I always choose 'No Correction', and have rarely had a problem.

.


That's my situation. I don't want to spend all the time and effort only to have it "corrected" out. However, I don't know what to do about the exposure issue. Despite NEC monitor, calibration, room light calibration, proof profile, etc. the final image is consistently 1-3 stops too dark. The only workaround that I have found is to keep adjusting and buying test prints until it is on the money (and does not look "right" on my NEC monitor).




May 15, 2024 at 07:07 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · BayPhoto vs WHCC vs Whitewall?


tm255 wrote:
That's my situation. I don't want to spend all the time and effort only to have it "corrected" out. However, I don't know what to do about the exposure issue. Despite NEC monitor, calibration, room light calibration, proof profile, etc. the final image is consistently 1-3 stops too dark. The only workaround that I have found is to keep adjusting and buying test prints until it is on the money (and does not look "right" on my NEC monitor).



What brightness is your monitor set to, and how bright is your editing environment? If the problem started when the monitor arrived...

If not, put it on them. Tell them to look at the JPEG submitted, and print the file so it looks the same, it shouldn't be that hard. Ask them why it's happening; it really shouldn't be happening, so there must be some technical reason (possibly on their side).



May 15, 2024 at 07:48 AM
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