fjablo wrote:
B) is not a firmware limitation, it's a hardware limitation of the FTZ adapter. Z cameras have no way of knowing what the aperture of the adapted F lens has been set to, whereas F-mount cameras with aperture index tab do.
Voigtlander Z lenses close the aperture manually and report the value that has been set electronically, that's why the aperture ring works for them, but not for adapted F lenses. Those Ai-P lenses (manual focus, but with CPU) only report their focal length and max aperture to the camera - bascially the information you would otherwise set manually for older Nikon lenses without CPU. ...Show more →
I should have been more explicit.
in B I was referring to a video I found that showed how to select a menu option on a DSLR with F mount to transfer aperture selection to the lens aperture ring.
The Voigtlander lens I have are M mount.
dmward wrote:
I should have been more explicit.
in B I was referring to a video I found that showed how to select a menu option on a DSLR with F mount to transfer aperture selection to the lens aperture ring.
The Voigtlander lens I have are M mount.
With Voigtländer lenses equipped with electronic communication (at least the most recent F mount lenses), the aperture ring can be used if that function is enabled in the menu of a Nikon DSLR that has this option (the D850 and many other do have the option). The Z7 does not have this option, but other Z series cameras may have it, as it presumably would not need hardware that is not present in the Z series or the FTZ.
AcuteShadows wrote:
With Voigtländer lenses equipped with electronic communication (at least the most recent F mount lenses), the aperture ring can be used if that function is enabled in the menu of a Nikon DSLR that has this option (the D850 and many other do have the option). The Z7 does not have this option, but other Z series cameras may have it, as it presumably would not need hardware that is not present in the Z series or the FTZ.
Well this is very disappointing and a major miss on Nikon's part.
It was my understanding (because it's seemingly been a big part of Nikon's social media marketing) that you could adapt vintage lenses and they be fully functional as manual focus lenses.
What's the point of making a vintage body, include amazing manual focus peaking functionality with af lock on but then not include the ability to control aperture rings on those vintage lenses?
This release is looking more and more like a half baked attempt to just unload an overstock of camera parts by packing it into a stylish vintage body.
Odd thing is, you can supposedly control the aperture rings on Sony lenses using the Megadap adapter but Nikon doesn't include this functionality in their own?
As I said earlier and what your link confirms as well is that it absolutely would require hardware that is not present on the FTZ
"Up until about 2000, all Nikon lenses had an aperture ring and all AI/AI-s/Series E/AF/AF-D as well as the earliest AF-S lenses (up till the advent of G lenses) had that notch in the lens base, enabling the lens to communicate the position of the aperture ring"
All it would take for Nikon to fix this is a different version of the FTZ that includes the indexing tab. I don’t see enough demand out there for it at this point, sadly.
And I’ll be the devil‘s advocate for a minute, I really enjoy changing the aperture via the command wheels on my Z9. It’s cool to be able to use a vintage chipped lens as if it were modern, and it frees my left hand up exclusively for focusing.
fjablo wrote:
As I said earlier and what your link confirms as well is that it absolutely would require hardware that is not present on the FTZ
"Up until about 2000, all Nikon lenses had an aperture ring and all AI/AI-s/Series E/AF/AF-D as well as the earliest AF-S lenses (up till the advent of G lenses) had that notch in the lens base, enabling the lens to communicate the position of the aperture ring"
All F-mount bodies that allow the aperture to be controlled on the lens (while still metering correctly) have this tab. The FTZ does not have it. ...Show more →
I was referring to lenses with electronic communication. But it is correct that in order to enable Z cameras to read the aperture, the lens would also need to be able to transmit the aperture information via the electronic link.
thenoilif wrote:
Well this is very disappointing and a major miss on Nikon's part.
It was my understanding (because it's seemingly been a big part of Nikon's social media marketing) that you could adapt vintage lenses and they be fully functional as manual focus lenses.
What's the point of making a vintage body, include amazing manual focus peaking functionality with af lock on but then not include the ability to control aperture rings on those vintage lenses?
This release is looking more and more like a half baked attempt to just unload an overstock of camera parts by packing it into a stylish vintage body.
Odd thing is, you can supposedly control the aperture rings on Sony lenses using the Megadap adapter but Nikon doesn't include this functionality in their own?
With a Z series camera and FTZ/FTZ2, you can actually control the aperture via the aperture ring on lenses (maybe not on all such lenses) that are not able to receive aperture information electronically from the camera.
For those that can receive the information electronically, the aperture ring must be set to the smallest aperture (or another designated position) in order to set the aperture from the camera, and can't be set using the aperture ring.
Hi All,
Not directly relevant, but some might find my experience pertinent (since it was a search fon my problem that brought me to this thread).
I purchased an FTZII to use with a Nikkor 105mm AF Micro D on a Zf body.
D lenses are listed to work with the adapter but without autofocus on the Z Cameras.
My setup never worked. The camera gave an error stating "Lock lens aperture ring at minimum aperture" - which I did but could never get past the error to actually use the lens.
The only thing I could think to try was firmware on the camera body and cleaning the contacts on the lens - no help.
Sadly, both lens and adapter were returned.
FWIW, I thought the bulk of the FTZII detracted from the idea of using old lenses on this retro-looking body anyway.
AcuteShadows wrote:
With a Z series camera and FTZ/FTZ2, you can actually control the aperture via the aperture ring on lenses (maybe not on all such lenses) that are not able to receive aperture information electronically from the camera.
For those that can receive the information electronically, the aperture ring must be set to the smallest aperture (or another designated position) in order to set the aperture from the camera, and can't be set using the aperture ring.
And again, if using the aperture ring is important to you, you can always use a dumb adapter...but then you lose focus confirmation.
AcuteShadows wrote:
For those that can receive the information electronically, the aperture ring must be set to the smallest aperture (or another designated position) in order to set the aperture from the camera, and can't be set using the aperture ring.
For AF-D, Ai-P and G type lenses, the lens is actually not receiving information from the camera at all. What the camera does is pushing a small lever which physically moves the aperture on the lens to the correct position, so it's all the camera's doing and the lens is just passive. You can see it in the image I posted above - it's the metal thing on the left side of the sensor. The FTZ adapter also has that lever.
For E type and native Z lenses there are indeed motors in the lens that move the aperture to the correct position. For Voigtlander Z lenses your hand is that motor (and the lens then reports back to the camera which aperture has been set)
I hope we see both these things in the future:
- an updated FTZ adapter with extended functionality for legacy glass (AI tab, AF motor)*
- Z mount Nikkors with aperture rings (and/or 3rd party options like the Sigma i-series)
*By now production of F mount products has apparently stopped and plenty of generally superior Z lenses are available - not much reason for Nikon to be too protective of Z mount anymore and they would honor their F mount legacy, which they do care about as I witnessed first-hand in their (amazing!) Tokyo museum.
fjablo wrote:
For AF-D, Ai-P and G type lenses, the lens is actually not receiving information from the camera at all. What the camera does is pushing a small lever which physically moves the aperture on the lens to the correct position, so it's all the camera's doing and the lens is just passive. You can see it in the image I posted above - it's the metal thing on the left side of the sensor. The FTZ adapter also has that lever.
For E type and native Z lenses there are indeed motors in the lens that move the aperture to the correct position. For Voigtlander Z lenses your hand is that motor (and the lens then reports back to the camera which aperture has been set)
I hope we see both these things in the future:
- an updated FTZ adapter with extended functionality for legacy glass (AI tab, AF motor)*
- Z mount Nikkors with aperture rings (and/or 3rd party options like the Sigma i-series)
*By now production of F mount products has apparently stopped and plenty of generally superior Z lenses are available - not much reason for Nikon to be too protective of Z mount anymore and they would honor their F mount legacy, which they do care about as I witnessed first-hand in their (amazing!) Tokyo museum....Show more →
I totally agree on the need for an FTZ adapter with that extended functionality.
Instead of "can receive the information electronically", I should have just written "can receive the information", as the information is often transmitted mechanically.
I don't know how the Z lenses do it. The Voigtländer Ultron 40mm f/2 lens (an F mount lens) appears to receive the aperture information via the small lever that you are describing. It also has an aperture ring, but that ring does nothing if you mount the lens to the FTZ - except for transmitting some signal that tells the camera whether the ring is set to the smallest aperture or not.
The actual point in setting the aperture to the smallest size is that the position of the aperture ring determines the smallest aperture that can be set by the camera using that small lever. The camera can always choose a wider aperture by moving the small lever, but not a smaller aperture than the one that is chosen via the aperture ring - the latter being inhibited mechanically. The additional restriction of setting the aperture ring to the smallest aperture is transmitted to the camera by some other means - either the camera checks whether the small lever is restricted in some way, or it is done electronically.
I have just received the Voigtlander Z mount 50mm F2 APO-LANTHAR for use with the Zf. When setting the Zf to Manual mode, with all dials set to C, and the Record button assigned to ISO, the lens aperture is not locked, the front dial switches Auto ISO on/off, and the aperture window, view finder, and monitor report the aperture. The aperture ring, which is on the FRONT of the lens, works fully with 1/3 stop clicks and is buttery smooth. The front wheel does NOT adjust the aperture, it is strictly adjusted via the aperture ring which is easy to handle due to it's location on the front of the lens. This is as close as I have been to having the best of both worlds and is the first experience I have ever had with manual focus being so very quick and smooth. This allows me to manually focus and quickly take images without raising my eyes away from the viewer while using the focusing advances of the mirrorless cameras.
As Scott mentioned above, I find using the Nikon F Manual lens in full auto mode works best for me due to my eyes. This Voigtlander Z lens allows me to shoot using the aperture ring in a wonderful mix of old and new tech. BTW, I have not yet tested this lens on the Z62 or the Z8 as i just received it Tuesday, nor can I advise if all of the new Voigtlander Z lens follow suit, but I can't wait to find out!
If Nikon could/would get the FTZII to do this communication for our old manual focus F mounts, I would be delighted. A Zf update adding the Z8 2.0 new CPU data changes would be the frosting on the cake!
I am incredibly ignorant to all of this, so please excuse me if this is a dumb question. I plan on getting a ZF with the FTZ ii (to be able to use some old F-mount glass I have) and then add a Voigtlander 28 or 40 for some manual focus fun.
From what I understand, I would have to set aperture to min. Value and then change via the command dial? Does this affect the usability of the focus scale? I would like to use zone focusing with this set up.
nmoneyt wrote:
I am incredibly ignorant to all of this, so please excuse me if this is a dumb question. I plan on getting a ZF with the FTZ ii (to be able to use some old F-mount glass I have) and then add a Voigtlander 28 or 40 for some manual focus fun.
From what I understand, I would have to set aperture to min. Value and then change via the command dial? Does this affect the usability of the focus scale? I would like to use zone focusing with this set up.
Thanks
You understand correctly (I have both of those F mount Voigts as well and use with the FTZii). Focus scale should remain unaffected.
RoamingScott wrote:
You understand correctly (I have both of those F mount Voigts as well and use with the FTZii). Focus scale should remain unaffected.
Thanks for the quick response. How do you like those lenses, and which would you recommend? I will probably end up getting the opposite Z mount AF counterpart lens. Would you recommend those over an m-mount counterpart with adapter? I will say, the FTZ is a little chunky, but it’s more economical than going the m-mount route I think and I’m curios if the trade off is worth it.
I will say, if you're looking at Voigtlander lenses - any reason not to look at the Voigtlander Z 40/1.2? You lose the adapter, can use the aperture ring as normal, and also get focus confirmation. They don't have a 28mm for Z mount as of now, so that you'd still need to adapt if you want, but the 40/1.2 on Z mount will be around the same size or smaller than the 40/2F mount with adapter, and you gain 1-1/3 stops of light.
Jman13 wrote:
I will say, if you're looking at Voigtlander lenses - any reason not to look at the Voigtlander Z 40/1.2? You lose the adapter, can use the aperture ring as normal, and also get focus confirmation. They don't have a 28mm for Z mount as of now, so that you'd still need to adapt if you want, but the 40/1.2 on Z mount will be around the same size or smaller than the 40/2F mount with adapter, and you gain 1-1/3 stops of light.
I have thought about this. I’m already getting the FTZii to use older F mount lens anyways, and I figured it would be a good idea to save the $300 bucks. But you bring up a good point. I can’t seem to find the Zmount in stock anywhere however.
nmoneyt wrote:
Thanks for the quick response. How do you like those lenses, and which would you recommend? I will probably end up getting the opposite Z mount AF counterpart lens. Would you recommend those over an m-mount counterpart with adapter? I will say, the FTZ is a little chunky, but it’s more economical than going the m-mount route I think and I’m curios if the trade off is worth it.
I love them both! I've had the 40 longer, and if I had to keep just one, it would probably be the 40. However, I'm really enjoying the 28 since getting it (my first 28mm ever). M mount lenses don't adapt as well to Z as they do on E due to Nikon's sensor thickness, so I wouldn't even consider it.
I bought these so I could share them with my FM3a but I've ended up shooting them mostly on my Z bodies
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Jman13 wrote:
I will say, if you're looking at Voigtlander lenses - any reason not to look at the Voigtlander Z 40/1.2? You lose the adapter, can use the aperture ring as normal, and also get focus confirmation. They don't have a 28mm for Z mount as of now, so that you'd still need to adapt if you want, but the 40/1.2 on Z mount will be around the same size or smaller than the 40/2F mount with adapter, and you gain 1-1/3 stops of light.
I've written quite a bit on my experience with the 40/2 vs the Z 40/1.2, but my feeling is that the Ultron is the superior lens at F2 and beyond for a few reasons, so if the 1.2-1.8 shots would be edge cases, the Ultron is still the leader. Obviously if you want the speed, the Z (or adapting the E) is the only choice at 40mm.
I was simply underwhelmed with the Z 40/1.2 after having shot the Ultron 40 for a while.
nmoneyt wrote:
I have thought about this. I’m already getting the FTZii to use older F mount lens anyways, and I figured it would be a good idea to save the $300 bucks. But you bring up a good point. I can’t seem to find the Zmount in stock anywhere however.
(and the lens then reports back to the camera which aperture has been set) 
