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Fox Hunters In Nevada

learle
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

While they don't actually hunt fox in Nevada they do chase coyotes through the desert landscape. They had around 50 hounds in their group with some fitted with GPS collars. Quite the spectacle to see them running through the sagebrush.

Dec 04, 2023 at 03:08 PM

Danpbphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

Wonderful catch Leah!
I can hear the dogs bellowing now!

Faux fox hunts are very popular here in Mary-land!
The riders vibrant coats provide a nice contrast to the desert pale!

Dan

Dec 05, 2023 at 10:00 AM

Chris.J
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

I bet that would be fun to witness!

Dec 05, 2023 at 12:06 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

Let's look at this from the coyote's point of view and all of a sudden it's more like cruelty for the sake of some sick idea of entertainment.

Dec 06, 2023 at 01:07 AM

coralnut
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

The riders' coats aren't the only vibrant red subjects at a fox hunt. The fox is literally running for it's life, and runs to the point of exhaustion. The hunt ends with a frenzied pack of dogs dismembering an exhausted fox when they finally catch it. They rip it to shreds and eat it alive.

Photos of fox hunts typically romanticize the beginning of the hunt. The photos at the end of the hunt never seem to be published.

Because foxes have become so few in the wild, club hunting often involves "put and take" hunts, where a caged fox is provided to be released for everyone's enjoyment.

I was not aware that fox hunts have progressed to using wild coyotes.

Dec 06, 2023 at 12:45 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

coralnut wrote:
The riders' coats aren't the only vibrant red subjects at a fox hunt. The fox is literally running for it's life, and runs to the point of exhaustion. The hunt ends with a frenzied pack of dogs dismembering an exhausted fox when they finally catch it. They rip it to shreds and eat it alive.

Photos of fox hunts typically romanticize the beginning of the hunt. The photos at the end of the hunt never seem to be published.

Because foxes have become so few in the wild, club hunting often involves "put and take" hunts, where a caged fox is...Show more →

Me neither, but it sounds like it probably violates animal cruelty laws even in Nevada.

Dec 06, 2023 at 01:05 PM

coralnut
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

Animal cruelty laws are commonly written to control the behavior of people, not animals. They contemplate what people may not do to animals but they do not contemplate what animals may not do to one another. It's a loophole that someone could ride a horse through.

Nobody's going to prosecute a dog for animal cruelty. Because the dog has committed no criminal act it's actions are a civil liability for the owner. Because there are no fox/coyote owners filing a wrongful death/property destruction lawsuit following the dog attack not much seems to happen unless a state specifically takes action to ban the practice of pack hunting. Then a hunt club just loads up the trailers and visits a friendly state for a weekend of cosplay with the horsies and doggies.

I learned from a fox hunt participant that they have very strict rules regarding photography, videography and disclosure of the club's activities to non-club members. It seems that their rules prohibit certain aspects of the hunt from being documented... to the point that they require NDA.

Dec 06, 2023 at 04:37 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

coralnut wrote:
Animal cruelty laws are commonly written to control the behavior of people, not animals. They contemplate what people may not do to animals but they do not contemplate what animals may not do to one another. It's a loophole that someone could ride a horse through.

Nobody's going to prosecute a dog for animal cruelty. Because the dog has committed no criminal act it's actions are a civil liability for the owner. Because there are no fox/coyote owners filing a wrongful death/property destruction lawsuit following the dog attack not much seems to happen unless a state specifically takes action to...Show more →

If an NDA is required it certainly begs the question - what are they trying to hide. In these cases I think we can figure it out. As far as not prosecuting a dog, maybe, but their owners can certainly be held liable for physical and emotional damage when their animals attack other animals or even criminal liability when their animals kill or maim other animals or humans. A close friend's large dog was attacked by two uncontrolled pit bulls while we were back country skiing at Mt. Piños in the souther Los Padres Nat'l Forest a decade ago. In that case the owner voluntarily offered and did pay for all veterinary bills for the injured dog but I'm sure it would have been a different story had those dogs killed my friend's dog. And if a dog owner urged his animals to attack or kill another animal or person, then there would certainly be criminal liability on the part of the owner.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:02 PM

learle
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

In Nevada the coyote does not have any protection and can even be hunted without the hunter having a license or tag unless they are being trapped. Its unfortunate and our state even allows coyote killing competitions which I don't agree with. As far as I know the local horseback group doesn't kill any of the coyotes they come in contact with and call off the dogs before any harm comes to the animal. I'm sure the coyote is quite distressed when they are being chased as any animal would be as has been mentioned here. I would definitely prefer to shoot coyotes with my camera.

Dec 06, 2023 at 11:36 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

learle wrote:
In Nevada the coyote does not have any protection and can even be hunted without the hunter having a license or tag unless they are being trapped. Its unfortunate and our state even allows coyote killing competitions which I don't agree with. As far as I know the local horseback group doesn't kill any of the coyotes they come in contact with and call off the dogs before any harm comes to the animal. I'm sure the coyote is quite distressed when they are being chased as any animal would be as has been mentioned here. I would definitely prefer...Show more →

Just because you can do something doesn't make it the right or ethical thing to do. Anyone who takes pleasure in antagonizing wild animals has something really wrong in their wiring. And even as you say, those poor coyotes have to be traumatized even if they aren't killed. Maybe it makes these people feel more exclusive and powerful to terrorize something that has no hope of defending itself. I challenge any one of these idiots to actually hunt a coyote and eat it for dinner. Something tells me that ain't gonna happen.

We have a lot of coyotes in our little neighborhood in beautiful Culver City and no one shoots or even chases them. They just keep their cats inside at night. In Los Angeles, our local mountain lion, known as P-22 had to be captured and put down after being hit by a car and being in very poor health, but no one here in southern California celebrated his passing. Everyone adopted him as their own and celebrated his life and ingenuity surviving for so long under adverse conditions.

Rick Shea, a guitarist friend of mine just posted a link to trail cam footage in the San Gabriel Mtns of a local mountain lion. One of the beautiful and majestic animals I've ever seen.

I'll end this remembering hiking in the Santa Monica Mountains with my neighbor's dog which I had on a leash due to many rattlesnakes. We came around a corner and we were face to face with one of our local coyotes. Everyone just froze for a moment. The dog looked at the coyote and seemed to realize they were somehow related. The coyote did the same, sized up the dog for a moment and then trotted off into the brush. We were less than ten feet apart and no one felt threatened. The rattlesnakes just rattled.

Dec 07, 2023 at 12:42 AM

coralnut
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

learle wrote:
In Nevada the coyote does not have any protection and can even be hunted without the hunter having a license or tag unless they are being trapped. Its unfortunate and our state even allows coyote killing competitions which I don't agree with. As far as I know the local horseback group doesn't kill any of the coyotes they come in contact with and call off the dogs before any harm comes to the animal. I'm sure the coyote is quite distressed when they are being chased as any animal would be as has been mentioned here. I would definitely prefer...Show more →

Thank you for responding. I am familiar with unprotected 'varmint' and 'predator' type animals that can be hunted at will without licenses or tags. In most states wild animals are considered to be the property of the state, and if they are designated as unprotected and are permitted to be hunted at-will then there is no legal recourse following an 'attack'. Being property of the state, those wild animals only hope for recourse after an 'attack' is for their owner (the state) to act in their behalf, but since the state has decided to make them a non-protected species that's never going to happen. The coyote can just be killed in the hunt and there's nothing more to be said about it.

I don't know if you're a dog owner. I've hunted with scent hounds. When they catch a scent and run off hot on the trail there's nothing in the world that can be used to call them off. Even shock collars get ignored by motivated dogs when their hunting instincts take over. I don't believe that anyone would have any success in calling off a pack of 50 frenzied dogs who have had their hunting instincts stimulated to the point that they're hunting in a pack. Just like when two dogs are fighting, your words will be ignored. You might as well try to call off the wolves when they're going after a caribou. They're not going to listen.

On the subject of hunting non-protected animals, I understand why states allow it. They view the coyotes as troublemakers and threats to livestock and they want them eradicated. But it's not very sporting to hunt them when the head count is 50-to-1. That's not sport, that's just gratuitous killing. If the hunt club wants to make it really sporting, they could take the pack to Texas and try setting them off on a pack of feral hogs. Now THAT would be interesting to watch.

I liked your image. It made good use of the rule of thirds.

Dec 07, 2023 at 02:23 AM

learle
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

I don't condone it and was in a sticky situation during a photography workshop. I only wanted to get shots of them jumping in the fall foliage and some portraits. I secretly hoped they didn't find a coyote. I wasn't confident they could actually call off the dogs if they did. I actually went back to my truck when it was thought they did corner one as I didn't want to witness that situation.

Thank you for having a civil discussion about the subject. I was hesitant to post any shots of that session due to subject content.

Dec 07, 2023 at 09:53 AM

DandL
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Fox Hunters In Nevada

learle wrote:
...I was hesitant to post any shots of that session due to subject content.

Voted for it, so I'm glad you posted it. Love the red coats, black horses and the happy hounds.

Dec 07, 2023 at 10:21 AM


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