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Archive 2023 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography

  
 
carlosriaga
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p.1 #1 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Hi everyone, I got my camera robed a few days ago. I want to replace it, my budget is very limited, I want to buy a cheap vintage lens, and a camera for bird photography.
The camera that was stolen was a bridge camera. I know very little of photography, but I'm really exited with the idea of using a vintage MF lens, I know its very difficult to take a decent photo with MF, but i really like to give it a try.
I've found this on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285482965140?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=E0XlItSrQvm&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255995163561?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ecUkmvnNQDi&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394899774064?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7a_wwtzatf6&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

and this camera:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175397383350?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=OSQCylfnRFq&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I need any idea, suggestion or advice, thanks in advance.

Carlos



Nov 21, 2023 at 09:43 PM
Alan Olander
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p.1 #2 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


The lenses won't mount to the Canon camera. (They may with appropriate adapter, but doubt you'd get autofocus or metering.) I think you would be very frustrated trying to photograph birds with an outfit like this, and image quality would probably not be very good.


Nov 22, 2023 at 12:37 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #3 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Since you seem to have no clue about cameras and lenses, you should stick with getting another bridge camera.

A $26 Tamron zoom lens from Japan on a Canon Rebel? Nothing but trouble and a waste of money.



Nov 23, 2023 at 11:08 AM
runamuck
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p.1 #4 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


A cheap body and great lens is far better. Diamonds are a gal's best friend and great glass is a photog's best friend. A Nikon D3*** or equivalent with a Tamron or Sigma 100-400 is a far better bet. Or Nikon 70-300 VR DX af-P. Image quality and usability are far better this way


Nov 23, 2023 at 04:12 PM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #5 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Thanks for your answer


Nov 23, 2023 at 06:27 PM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #6 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


I've found this camera, looks good to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186172515405?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fHe4FF64Q9-&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=mghWW0FdRAe&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

if I want to be stubborn, what kind of converter do i need to put a vintange lens like this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386217286035?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zf8grvppqz-&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=mghWW0FdRAe&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



Nov 23, 2023 at 08:34 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #7 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


D3300 is good. I have one and its light weight and image quality are great.

If you are okay with adaptall and manual focus, go for it.



Nov 23, 2023 at 10:55 PM
Sliding Focus
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p.1 #8 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


I agree with the other folks who’ve replied saying that a bridge camera will be easier to use… However, while difficult, it is very possible to get great bird images using a manual focus lens on a DSLR, and I disagree that you should be dissuaded from buying such a setup if you think you would enjoy using it and/or are viewing it as a stepping stone to a better bird photography setup based around a DSLR in the future (e.g. you intend to upgrade to an autofocus lens when you can afford it). Douglas Herr (https://www.wildlightphoto.com), who is active in this forum (username “telyt”), used DSLR and mirrorless cameras with manual focus lenses for his bird photography for a long time, and you may still be able to find some of his stunning images made using various old Leica R and Canon FD mount lenses if you search his posts. And I myself enjoyed shooting with manual focus Leica 400mm f/6.8 and 560mm f/6.8 lenses on a Canon DSLR for ~10 years until I could afford a Canon 100–400mm (which I still must focus manually when I use it in combination with a 1.4x extender). It just takes practice, and while it can be very frustrating, it is also a fun challenge! So if you’re up for that, I’d say go for it!

As for the lenses you specifically asked about, I’ve heard very good things about both the Tamron 400mm f/6.9 and 60–300mm, though I haven’t used either myself. I’d recommend a lens with a focal length of at least 400mm for birding, and I’d be more wary of buying an old zoom than an old prime, so between the two Tamrons, I’d probably go for the 400mm f/6.9. A brief review of that lens with some nice sample images is available at http://forum.mflenses.com/tamron-400-6-9-preset-t-mount-an-early-collectible-t10679.html, and a review of the similar (optically identical?) “Nestar” version can be seen at http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=12332. The biggest drawback that I can see with the Tamron 400mm f/6.9 is the 9m minimum focus distance—that is very long, and seems likely to cause you problems if you like to shoot small birds such as songbirds…so that could be a good reason to consider a different lens (such as the 60–300mm). Still, for $20, the 400mm f/6.9 looks pretty hard to beat, and it would get you back in the bird photography game until you’re able to upgrade to a more suitable lens in the future.

All of the lenses you shared will require an appropriate adapter to mount to your camera of choice—the two primes have a T mount, and the 60–300mm has an Adaptall mount. These adapters are easy to find and affordable (e.g. on eBay), so you should have no problems mounting these lenses to whatever camera you choose to buy.

As for the camera, I think a larger body than either a Canon Rebel or Nikon D3300 would be best—a 400mm lens is going to be big and heavy, and a larger body will have a larger grip that will make the lens + camera combo more comfortable to hold (unless perhaps you have very small hands). Also, if you want to use a DSLR, Canon bodies are better for adapting old lenses than Nikon bodies unless you specifically want to use Nikkor lenses (which are great, but much more expensive than the lenses you’re looking at)—and even then, that’s only if you’re using a Nikon D200/300/500 or a full-frame body. So, I’d recommend that you seek out a Canon EOS 40D, 50D, 60D, or 70D; these were Canon’s mid- to high-end APS-C bodies and are all now relatively affordable (starting at ~$100 for the oldest, the 40D), and any of them would be ideal for dipping your toe into shooting birds with a DSLR.

Hope this information is helpful, and good luck finding a new birding setup! Let us know what you decide to go for!



Nov 25, 2023 at 01:06 PM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #9 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Wow that's the most complete and thoughtful answer, I'm really exited with this project, i know it's gonna take a lot of practice and even have to deal with some frustration but I believe it will lead to a more satisfactory experience.


Nov 26, 2023 at 07:07 PM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #10 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Another option would be a new(er) mirror (i.e. reflex) lens such as https://tokinalens.com/product/szx_super_tele_400mm_f8_reflex_mf/. Mirror lenses have lots of compromises including being manual focus. But I think the resulting image quality from a modern mirror lens is going to surpass any "vintage" lenses of a similar price point found on ebay. Lenses from 40+ years ago are prone to have fungus and hazing on the glass which can severely degrade the image quality.

You could pair that newer 400mm mirror lens with a micro four thirds camera that's one or two generations old like an Olympus E-M5 Mark II. That would give you the equivalent 800mm field of view.



Nov 26, 2023 at 10:42 PM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #11 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Thanks for the answer, but my budget for now is very limited.


Nov 28, 2023 at 05:52 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #12 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


carlosriaga wrote:
Thanks for the answer, but my budget for now is very limited.


I understand and respect that. Therefore it would help if you provided a specific budget amount. Then we could make suggestions that are appropriate. Your original message noted a US$300 used camera and some $25 lenses. Original Olympus E-M5 can be had ~$150 and that Tokina 400mm lens ~$130.

I suggest budgeting more of a 50/50 or 60/40 price ratio on your camera/lens combo. Putting a $20 lens on a $200 camera is probably going to be wasting much of the camera's potential performance. Better to use a $100 lens on a $120 camera. Lenses make the image.



Nov 28, 2023 at 02:26 PM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #13 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


At the present exchange rate my budget is $400, including taxes, shipping to a box in miami and the sipping to colombia.

In ebay the cheapest Olympus OM-D E-M5 cost $220, shipping and taxes included, and the shipping to Colombia $30 more.

Found this lens that fits the budget of $150 that's left:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204480691621?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=iav_bwlesp-&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=mghWW0FdRAe&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

thanks for your time



Nov 28, 2023 at 06:27 PM
sjms
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p.1 #14 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Reported


Nov 29, 2023 at 10:22 AM
Sliding Focus
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p.1 #15 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


The ~4m minimum focus distance of the Tokina RMC and Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 lenses will be much more useful than the ~9m minimum focus distance of the Tamron 400mm f/6.9. Not sure how their image quality compares, but the shorter minimum focus distance is going to make the Tokina so much more useful that I’d probably choose it over the Tamron even if it weren’t quite as sharp. That lens looks like it could be a good choice! Though I don't know if I'd buy the particular copy you linked—IMO, the seller's description is not thorough enough to give me confidence that the lens is in good condition (though it does look very nice in the photos).

Don't forget to factor the cost of an appropriate adapter into your budget if you plan to use a lens on a camera it wasn’t designed for—figure at least $20–30. With the size of your budget, that could be a reason to consider a Nikon (or perhaps Pentax) body over other brands—while you can’t adapt lenses to Nikon as easily as Canon or any mirrorless system, if you have a Nikon F mount lens and a Nikon DSLR, then you don’t need an adapter! And if you want to avoid buying an adapter, going Nikon will give you the greatest variety of lenses to choose from (at least as long as you're looking at older, manual focus lenses). Consider the Nikon D300—it's a great camera (especially if you want to use vintage Nikkor or Nikon-mount lenses), and they're pretty affordable now: UsedPhotoPro has some decent ones listed eBay for less than $150! Spend up to another $150–200 on a lens and you’ll be off to a good start!

Also, with a lens budget of $150–200, you might be able to find a few options with autofocus, e.g. a Tamron 200–400mm f/5.6, Tokina 400mm f/5.6, or Sigma 500mm f/7.2…though I don’t know if the quality of those cheaper autofocus lenses is good enough to make them worth buying (I’ve heard good things about the Sigma, at least). These options could also bring Canon bodies back into consideration for you, since autofocus lenses will be available in Canon EF mount—but avoid Sigma lenses made before the early 2000s if you go Canon!

If you were interested in a mirror lens, the well-regarded Tamron 500mm f/8, Nikon Nikkor C 500mm f/8, and Sigma 600mm f/8 are typically available for ~$150–200 as well. My father has a copy of the Nikkor; images made with it have low contrast, but are otherwise quite pleasing, and IMO the lens is a very good value. I’m not a fan of mirror lenses’ characteristic bokeh, but if you’re taking photos to document or help you identify birds rather than to make art—or if you simply don't mind the bokeh!—then that is not an issue. And the compact size sure is nice!

One more thing to think about: if you aspire to upgrade to an autofocus lens at some point in the future, then you might want to consider what options you'll have to upgrade to before you choose a camera. For example, if you know now that you really like the idea of buying, say, a Canon 400mm f/5.6L or a Nikon 200–500mm f/5.6 someday, then you might prefer to choose a camera that gives you the option of upgrading to to that lens even though you can't afford it right now.



Nov 29, 2023 at 10:39 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #16 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


I'd recommend the 55-250, especially STM version, on the rebel. It doesn't have the reach of the 400mm lenses, but it does have af and IS. It is basically 100-400 ff equivalent, actually 88-400mm ff equivalent.

I didn't use the Tamron 400/6.9 very much, but the 60-300 is a very good lens, being better in the center at 300mm than the 100-300 L, and 70-300 IS v1. MF can be difficult on DSLR, though

Most lenses can be adapted to Canon, like Nikon, Film Olympus, Pentax, and others. Actually better off using my Nikon film lenses adapted to Canon in many cases. A 300/4 or 4.5 might fit the bill. I've used m4/3 too, it's good/great.



Nov 29, 2023 at 11:05 AM
carlosriaga
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p.1 #17 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


Wow really nice points you make!

The UsedPhotoPro website is nice, seem like a reliable place to buy.
Now i have received a lot of advise, and I appreciate it. But I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, jeje.
AmbientMike suggest that Canon cameras adapt other brands lenses easily, so is Canon a better choice over Nikon?

I've found this Nikon D300 and a Tamron 31A 200-500mm f5.6 SP Adaptall Lens (500mm! ) in UsedPhotoPro web.

https://usedphotopro.com/nikon-d300-123mp-digital-slr-camera-body-und-02-5950-4-3103212-ef1e6bce
https://usedphotopro.com/tamron-31a-200-500mm-f56-sp-adaptall-lens-utl-07-8700-4-3000268-66102be2
this add up to $366, leaving enough money to pay the shipping to Colombia.

Found a web with low prices.
There is this Canon, is grey but cheap, jeje

https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/canon-eos-rebel-t6/sku-1958607

and this lenses (nikon fit! paradoxically)

https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/tamron-af-200-400mm-f-5-6-ld-if-nikon-fit



Nov 29, 2023 at 08:58 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #18 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


I will repeat what I said before. Since you don’t have a clue about cameras and lenses, you are just asking for trouble using vintage lenses, adapters, and manual focus. Anyone who says they can manual focus on a movIng bird better and faster than a modern camera can auto focus is delusional.

Go buy another bridge camera (used) for under $400. On this thread you are just going to get more and more suggestions about what cameras and lenses you should get, thus confusing you more and more.

Canon is not better than Nikon or Sony. They all take good photos.



Nov 29, 2023 at 09:48 PM
Sliding Focus
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p.1 #19 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


We cannot definitively tell you whether it is better for you to choose Canon or Nikon—that is for you to decide based on your priorities. Which system has more lenses you like? Whose cameras feel nicer to hold or offer the features you want at a price you're willing to pay? Etc. And if you don't know what you prefer, don't worry too much about it—both Canon and Nikon's systems are great.

As both AmbientMike and I have told you, Canon's DSLRs are the easiest DSLRs to use with lenses from other brands: with a simple lens mount adapter, they can be made to work with manual lenses made for the Contax/Yashica, Leica R, Nikon F, Olympus OM, Pentax screwmount (M42), and Pentax K camera systems. Nikon DSLRs, by contrast, can only be used with lenses made for Nikon F mount (unless you want to replace the mount on another brand's lens, which is complicated and expensive—not something I'd recommend for you). However, the selection of older lenses made for Canon is pretty small (most manual lenses made for Canon were made in Canon FD mount, and these lenses cannot easily be used on Canon DSLRs, which use the Canon EF mount), and if you want to use lenses made for other brands, the required lens mount adapter will cost $20–30 (if not more). By contrast, there are a plethora older lenses that will work on Nikon DSLRs (with certain limitations), so if you want to go for an old, manual lens, but don't want to spend part of your limited budget on a lens mount adapter, the Nikon system will give you the largest selection of lenses to choose from. Also, when using a lens made for Nikon on a Nikon body, you can get full-aperture metering (provided you buy a body that supports it, such as the D300), whereas you can only use stop-down metering when using an adapted lens on a Canon body; this difference matters little for birding with a slow telephoto—where you'll probably use your lens at its maximum aperture most of the time—but if you like the idea of using other manual lenses, having full-aperture metering could be a really nice feature. The upshot here is that both systems are good for using manual lenses, but in different ways.

T-mount and Adaptall lenses—such as the lenses you linked in your first post—are a special case: they are made to be used with interchangeable lens mount adapters that allow them to fit on any 35mm camera body (provided that you have the appropriate lens mount adapter for your body), and so they can be used on both Canon and Nikon cameras. T-mount lenses do not support full-aperture metering; Adaptall lenses support full-aperture metering on Nikon but not on Canon.

I agree with AmbientMike that the Canon 55–250mm STM or a manual 300mm f/4.5 could be good options.

I would not recommend that you buy the copy of the Tamron 200–500mm that you linked. As old zooms go, that model has a good reputation. However, I'd be wary of buying any old zoom—especially one with obvious damage—and that copy is also missing a lens mount adapter (it is an Adaptall lens), so you would have to find and buy an Adaptall to Nikon F mount adapter in addition to the lens.

I'd also be wary of buying a Tamron 200–400mm because it's an old zoom (more potential for problems than a prime), but it is one of the few long lenses in your price range with autofocus, so if your expectations aren't too high, it might be a decent option.

Personally, I'd rather have a Nikon D300 than a Canon Rebel T6, but YMMV.

I'll also reiterate that I agree with Imagemaster that a bridge camera will probably be easier to use and give you better results. But, using manual focus lenses on a DSLR can be pretty fun, even for birding! The best choice for you will depend on your goals and expectations.

Edited on Dec 01, 2023 at 09:50 AM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2023 at 10:54 PM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #20 · Super cheap telephoto (and camera) for bird photography


The Nikon D300 or Canon 7D would both be good cameras. I still believe you'd be better served by a more modern AF lens of shorter focal length rather than a 400 or 500mm MF lens that's 40+ years old. Pairing either of those cameras with their matching 70-300mm f4-5.6 AF lens would give you very capable autofocusing.


Nov 29, 2023 at 11:34 PM
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