Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

       2       end
  

New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus

  
 
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Leica just introduced the Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH (2023), a small, wide-angle lens designed for Leica's rangefinder cameras. This lens is an upgrade to Leica's previous version, sharing the same name. It comes with a fresh design, and it includes a built-in lens hood that you can swivel outward to protect the front glass or swivel inward for storage.

Similar to the earlier version, it consists of 9 elements arranged in 6 groups. It's worth noting that it can now focus as close as 0.4 meters (approximately 15.75 inches) when in Live View mode. This change has made the lens wider (58mm vs 53mm) and longer (55mm vs 41mm), but the new lens is now equipped with a built-in hood design.

Pre-order it from B&H Photo: ($5,295)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1792209-REG/leica_11618_28mm_f_2_summicron_m_asph.html






















Oct 26, 2023 at 09:53 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


While the optical designs of both the older and newer Leica 28/2 Summicron lenses are quite similar, there are variations in their MTF graphs. What's interesting is that the latest version performs slightly worse at center when fully open compared to its predecessor.







Oct 26, 2023 at 11:16 AM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Below are screenshots the MTFs for all three versions of the 28 Cron from Leica's PDF data sheets. I think Leica mislabeled f/2.8 and f/5.6 on the v2's graphs...

Original:


V2 (2016?):


V3 (2023):



Oct 26, 2023 at 12:00 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


rscheffler wrote:
Below are screenshots the MTFs for all three versions of the 28 Cron from Leica's PDF data sheets. I think Leica mislabeled f/2.8 and f/5.6 on the v2's graphs...

Original:
https://i.postimg.cc/DzQjdf7B/28cronv1.jpg

V2 (2016?):
https://i.postimg.cc/0Q8ttgQx/28cronv2.jpg

V3 (2023):
https://i.postimg.cc/k4fTzj6S/28cronv3.jpg


How do you feel about the slight decrease in performance at the center when using the new 2023 model at its widest aperture? It's a minor difference, but shows in their MTF graph at infinity.



Oct 26, 2023 at 04:41 PM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Wow 14mm longer? Is that with the lens retracted? Seems nuts to me.
I am considering buying the V2 whilst it's still available new to avoid being lumped with the downgraded V3 that is bigger and worse wide open. Stopped down you won't notice the difference between any of these I'd wager.

EDIT: I've looked at the two scale drawings of the lenses. I believe Leica measured the old Cron from the mount and the new one as the full length including the part that is sunk into the camera body. The true difference in length is likely about 2-3mm.

Edited on Oct 26, 2023 at 07:45 PM · View previous versions



Oct 26, 2023 at 07:25 PM
j.liam
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


The retention of these old optical designs when Voigtländer has cleanly bested them at a fraction of the price, remains a mystery.


Oct 26, 2023 at 07:42 PM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


j.liam wrote:
The retention of these old optical designs when Voigtländer has cleanly bested them at a fraction of the price, remains a mystery.


I have 3 Voigts, one Zeiss and no Leicas for my M10-R and the appeal of the 28 cron over the 28 ultron is the vignetting performance. Not darkening but the optical vignetting causing swirl and increased DOF in the corners.



Oct 26, 2023 at 07:46 PM
flash
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Fred Miranda wrote:
How do you feel about the slight decrease in performance at the center when using the new 2023 model at its widest aperture? It's a minor difference, but shows in their MTF graph at infinity.


Small enough as to be irrelevant, for me. Plus like all MTF graphs, these may or may not represent the actual lens I take home.

I like the close focus ability, a lot. I like my Ultron but this tempts me. That matters more than a tiny change in a graph.

Gordon



Oct 26, 2023 at 08:36 PM
SlowDriver
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


flash wrote:
I like the close focus ability, a lot. I like my Ultron but this tempts me. That matters more than a tiny change in a graph.

But why only 40mm, why not 30mm...? If they can do 30mm with the APO-Summicron-M 35mm they should be able to do it with a 28mm as well, shouldn't they?



Oct 26, 2023 at 08:45 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


flash wrote:
Small enough as to be irrelevant, for me. Plus like all MTF graphs, these may or may not represent the actual lens I take home.

I like the close focus ability, a lot. I like my Ultron but this tempts me. That matters more than a tiny change in a graph.

Gordon


Certainly, Gordon,
I agree that it may not be significant when dealing with actual photographs. It was just unexpected for me to see a reduction in sharpness at the center for the newly released lens. Of course copy variation plays a bigger role.



Oct 26, 2023 at 08:47 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


rscheffler wrote:
Below are screenshots the MTFs for all three versions of the 28 Cron from Leica's PDF data sheets. I think Leica mislabeled f/2.8 and f/5.6 on the v2's graphs...



Fred Miranda wrote:
How do you feel about the slight decrease in performance at the center when using the new 2023 model at its widest aperture? It's a minor difference, but shows in their MTF graph at infinity.


Just wish to officially state that I don't like pull out hood designs and am disappointed to see it here too. But it seems to be generally popular.

I had the Cron v1, got an early production v2 and didn't like it and got the Lux instead. That's the extent of my 28 Cron experience, and is already years ago.

IMO the v3 wide open MTF looks like a reasonable compromise. Maybe slightly less sharp but both sagittal and tangential lines track close together across the frame, which I believe implies relatively smooth rendering. I didn't shoot it much wide open at infinity, rather most of my wide open shooting was nearer distances like environmental portraits, etc. A slight drop in sharpness for smoother rendering IMO would be a good tradeoff. And I thought the 28 Cron already rendered pleasingly for nearer distance work.

I was actually quite happy with my v1 except for those times when field curvature was noticeable at wider apertures (like doing group photos and losing sharpness towards the edges). I got the v2 to address the field curvature problem, but both copies I tried were softer at the edges stopped down than my v1 and decimated by my VM 35/1.7. And supposedly that was what the v2 was supposed to fix (at least at wider apertures). Apparently I had bad luck because others have reported better results in-line with Leica's marketing.

---------------------------------------------


j.liam wrote:
The retention of these old optical designs when Voigtländer has cleanly bested them at a fraction of the price, remains a mystery.


thrice wrote:
I have 3 Voigts, one Zeiss and no Leicas for my M10-R and the appeal of the 28 cron over the 28 ultron is the vignetting performance. Not darkening but the optical vignetting causing swirl and increased DOF in the corners.


That's the first thing I noticed about the VM v2 when real world users sample images started appearing. There's an old thread here with some comparisons against the Cron and it's pretty much splitting hairs with subjective arguments to go one way or the other.

I ended up getting a VM 28/2 v2 earlier this year but I have not warmed up to it. First of all, on my M240 I get color shift in the corners that is very noticeable in neutrally toned areas of images. And my copy has weird field curvature, whereas everyone says it shouldn't have it. It's basically a similar repeat to the bad luck I had with the Cron v2, but at least only cost me $600 (used). Stopped down it's wonderfully sharp across the image, just wider apertures are not what I expected across the frame.

I'm not sure Leica really needs to totally redesign the 28 Cron - I think it holds its own against the VM. It might not be technically better in sheer resolving power, but IMO there are still (subjective) arguments in its favor.

Who knows, maybe we'll get 28 Cron APO eventually?

But right now it seems 24mm is the big hole in the M lens line up.



Oct 26, 2023 at 08:49 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


thrice wrote:
I have 3 Voigts, one Zeiss and no Leicas for my M10-R and the appeal of the 28 cron over the 28 ultron is the vignetting performance. Not darkening but the optical vignetting causing swirl and increased DOF in the corners.


You're absolutely right, and this is clearly visible in most of my photos even when resized. When using the Voigtlander lens, you not only notice more darkening at the edges, but this creates increased optical vignetting, which shows up as a swirling effect caused by cats-eye highlights. Also, I see slightly more bokeh outlining with the Leica, which I actually prefer over the super smooth rendering of the Voigtlander.

In the center of the frame, the Voigtlander performs noticeably better but off-axis, both lenses are pretty much equal. When shooting at f/2.8, it's difficult to detect any differences, so the choice between them comes down to factors like price, haptics, and the level of acceptable optical vignetting. The Voigtlander focuses down to 0.5m but it's annoying when focusing with the RF as there is no tactical feel when moving closer than 0.7m.



Oct 26, 2023 at 08:54 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


rscheffler wrote:
Just wish to officially state that I don't like pull out hood designs and am disappointed to see it here too. But it seems to be generally popular.


Likewise I usually prefer no hood or the square hood from the 2016 model.

IMO the v3 wide open MTF looks like a reasonable compromise. Maybe slightly less sharp but both sagittal and tangential lines track close together across the frame, which I believe implies relatively smooth rendering. I didn't shoot it much wide open at infinity, rather most of my wide open shooting was nearer distances like environmental portraits, etc. A slight drop in sharpness for smoother rendering IMO would be a good tradeoff. And I thought the 28 Cron already rendered pleasingly for nearer distance work.

That's a good point Ron. Thanks! I suppose it's reasonable to make this compromise, even though the Leica 28/2 II (2016) already yielded smooth rendering.

I've posted a comparison between Voigtlander 28/2 II and Leica 28/2 II at infinity here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1704868/42#infinity5

and a rendering comparison here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1704868/42#rend1

Who knows, maybe we'll get 28 Cron APO eventually?

Looking at Leica's historical pattern, they usually start by creating APO telephoto lenses for their M and SL camera series since these are simpler to design. Afterward, they slowly bring in normal APO lenses followed by wide APO lenses. Even though a 28/2 APO is a potential development, it may take a while because the new 28/2 close-focus lens was recently launched.



Oct 26, 2023 at 09:04 PM
RustyRus
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


flash wrote:
Small enough as to be irrelevant, for me. Plus like all MTF graphs, these may or may not represent the actual lens I take home.

I like the close focus ability, a lot. I like my Ultron but this tempts me. That matters more than a tiny change in a graph.

Gordon



I am a sucker for a small form factor 28- I am also a sucker for the form factor of the Leica lenses. This will probably end up in my bag-

I love the IQ of the ultron, I just never get along with the handling of it.



Oct 27, 2023 at 09:47 AM
syrcular
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Anyone using the new 28mm f2 Summicron-M Close Focus? What do you think so far? Compared to other offerings?


Jan 14, 2024 at 10:53 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Fred Miranda wrote:
How do you feel about the slight decrease in performance at the center when using the new 2023 model at its widest aperture? It's a minor difference, but shows in their MTF graph at infinity.


I reckon it is a byproduct of the optical designs associated with a design for a 0.4m close focusing distance.

I realize that the MTF is for infinity, but in order to accommodate that design, it likely has some "quid pro quo" aspects to it ... as many optical engineering attributes, do.

In other words, going from 0.7m to 0.4m is nearly 2X magnification capability, and to take a .0000000000000001% hit on resolution is more than a fair trade. Likewise, the physical dimension diff's are likely necessary to accommodate racking the lens from infinity to 0.4m (vs. previous 0.7m).




Jan 15, 2024 at 09:27 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


RustyBug wrote:
I reckon it is a byproduct of the optical designs associated with a design for a 0.4m close focusing distance.

I realize that the MTF is for infinity, but in order to accommodate that design, it likely has some "quid pro quo" aspects to it ... as many optical engineering attributes, do.

In other words, going from 0.7m to 0.4m is nearly 2X magnification capability, and to take a .0000000000000001% hit on resolution is more than a fair trade.


I agree, it's not a big deal in the real world. Hats off to Leica for being transparent about the slight decrease in resolution.



Jan 15, 2024 at 09:31 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


flash wrote:
I like the close focus ability, a lot.
... That matters more than a tiny change in a graph.

Gordon


Yup.



Jan 15, 2024 at 09:32 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree, it's not a big deal in the real world. Hats off to Leica for being transparent about the slight decrease in resolution.


OTOH, it does appear to have a slight increase in correction at some apertures / llmm ... likely another tradeoff attribute, too.



Jan 15, 2024 at 09:37 PM
flash
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New Leica Summicron-M 28mm F2 ASPH with close-focus


syrcular wrote:
Anyone using the new 28mm f2 Summicron-M Close Focus? What do you think so far? Compared to other offerings?


I picked one up before Christmas. It's still in its box..... Not returning it just have my M11 in Melbourne because those muppets can't calibrate a rangefinder with a big machine from Germany. Told the boys in the shop that if they get me a new red dot, I'll do it in store in ten minutes with an allen key......

Apparently, it's done but I've yet to have time to pick it up. If only I had another camera system for times like this.......

Gordon



Jan 16, 2024 at 04:31 PM
       2       end






FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.