p.1 #1 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
Update: Changing the Zf's "Vibration reduction" mode to "Sport" allows the feature "Link VR to focus point" to be reliable with eye-AF and greatly increases the accuracy of eye-AF when using 3D and Wide Area AF modes.
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Original post:
Can someone else with a Zf test this for me, particularly with the 40 f/2? Please try shooting wide open with eye-AF at headshot distance with the "Link VR to focus point" enabled and then disabled. Do you see any difference in the AF accuracy for hitting the eye? I'm seeing a huge increase in eye-AF accuracy by disabling this feature.
p.1 #2 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
It sounds like when you visit the Doctor and say, Doc, it hurts when I do this and the Doc says, then don't do that lol.
But in all seriousness. I'm pretty certain I have not seen that feature in my Z9 so I am assuming it's a new feature with the Zf. I guess it sounds like it's still a bit buggy and not ready for prime time?
p.1 #3 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
Eric214 wrote:
It sounds like when you visit the Doctor and say, Doc, it hurts when I do this and the Doc says, then don't do that lol.
But in all seriousness. I'm pretty certain I have not seen that feature in my Z9 so I am assuming it's a new feature with the Zf. I guess it sounds like it's still a bit buggy and not ready for prime time?
Yes, it's a new feature for the Zf, and yes, I'm definitely keeping it off for now. When the focus point is off-center, the sharpness with IBIS is excellent and reliable without it anyway.
p.1 #4 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
highdesertmesa wrote:
Yes, it's a new feature for the Zf, and yes, I'm definitely keeping it off for now. When the focus point is off-center, the sharpness with IBIS is excellent and reliable without it anyway.
The compensation would only matter for wide angle lenses anyway. Something like the 40mm almost certainly would see little benefit, so just turning it off for now is sensible. If you’ve got a subject well off center on a wide angle or ultra wide angle lens then it should help noticeably.
Curious to see if others have the same result as you. Good job on bug finding!
p.1 #5 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
kwalsh wrote:
The compensation would only matter for wide angle lenses anyway. Something like the 40mm almost certainly would see little benefit, so just turning it off for now is sensible. If you’ve got a subject well off center on a wide angle or ultra wide angle lens then it should help noticeably.
Curious to see if others have the same result as you. Good job on bug finding!
I'm interested to see if others find the same thing, too. So far with the linking of VR to focus point disabled, eye-AF is reliable in in AF-S and AF-C in wide area even with subject type set to Auto. If I switch to 3D with a single center point, the tracking of the eye once detected is still poor for humans with both Auto and People subject type settings.
p.1 #6 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
highdesertmesa wrote:
I'm interested to see if others find the same thing, too. So far with the linking of VR to focus point disabled, eye-AF is reliable in in AF-S and AF-C in wide area even with subject type set to Auto. If I switch to 3D with a single center point, the tracking of the eye once detected is still poor for humans with both Auto and People subject type settings.
You can easily fix that. Prior to FW update 3.0, if you just tried to acquire AF with 3D AF mode, it always started at the center of the frame or where you put the small 3D box in the frame and if you had 3D set as default AF mode (or the shutter button) so without touching a button, you saw the 3D AF mode in the EVF.
Since FW 3.0 and after, the 3D picks up right off the passive white AF box. So either any Wide Area AF mode or Auto Area AF mode you would see the white box track the subject in the larger red box (this is without pressing any AF button). The White passive AF box is also much faster and intelligent in recognizing, acquiring and tracking the subject so it is better to let it acquire and then just press your AF mode/button of choice.
So you can set the default AF mode to Auto Area and set the AF ON to 3D and once you see the white box tracking the person, just hit AF ON and it won't hunt or miss the person. If 3D isn't as reliable, I woudl just use the Auto Area AF mode. I find that very reliable as well as the 3D.
p.1 #7 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
Eric214 wrote:
You can easily fix that. Prior to FW update 3.0, if you just tried to acquire AF with 3D AF mode, it always started at the center of the frame or where you put the small 3D box in the frame and if you had 3D set as default AF mode (or the shutter button) so without touching a button, you saw the 3D AF mode in the EVF.
Since FW 3.0 and after, the 3D picks up right off the passive white AF box. So either any Wide Area AF mode or Auto Area AF mode you would see the white box track the subject in the larger red box (this is without pressing any AF button). The White passive AF box is also much faster and intelligent in recognizing, acquiring and tracking the subject so it is better to let it acquire and then just press your AF mode/button of choice.
So you can set the default AF mode to Auto Area and set the AF ON to 3D and once you see the white box tracking the person, just hit AF ON and it won't hunt or miss the person. If 3D isn't as reliable, I woudl just use the Auto Area AF mode. I find that very reliable as well as the 3D. ...Show more →
On the Zf, here's what's working well or not with eye-AF for me so far:
Works well:
– AF-S or AF-C wide area (full frame)
Works but frustrating to use (identifies incorrect objects as an eye and jumps around too much; stumbles trying to find an eye if the red box is too small):
– AF-S or AF-C all red box sizes of wide area
Doesn't work at all (identifies the eye but almost always misses focus):
– AF-C 3D
– Any AF mode when "Link VR to focus point" is active
It's a bummer the 3D isn't working well for eye-AF or I could use it for everything. When not using eye-AF, it's a great tool for focus recompose, which allows me to never have to move the focus point from the center, just half-press to acquire focus on the subject then keep the shutter half-pressed as I recompose and fully depress the shutter.
p.1 #9 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
aagirlz wrote:
I turned it off. Didn’t like how it worked with eye focus - though it was just my lack of knowledge of the Nikon system
Thank you for the report.
Earlier I submitted a technical support request to Nikon regarding the issue, so maybe I'll hear something back in the next few days.
Kudos to Nikon for their tech support request system. Before even having a profile on their website or registering my camera/lens, I submitted the request for help. After signing up on the site later with the same email address and registering my gear, the tech support request immediately appeared as a pending request for my account.
p.1 #10 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
I've done a bit more testing, and I now believe it is the VR/IBIS mode responsible for both "Link VR to focus point" and 3D tracking mode not working well with eye-AF. Both these modes require VR to be set to Sport for reliable eye-AF.
– With VR set to Sport, all AF modes work well with eye-AF.
– With VR set to Normal, do not use "Link VR to focus point", 3D AF, or wide area AF modes in conjunction with eye-AF.
The above is with my 40 f/2. Lenses with lens-VR may perform differently.
I looked up Sport VR versus Normal VR – seems Sport VR is fewer stops of IBIS in exchange for smoother image display. So I guess choose your VR mode based on your use case and settings.
p.1 #12 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
The elephant in the room of course is why such a complex set of interdependancies in settings, and difficult work flows to get AF to work properly when no other manufacturers have such issues? Especially in a camera with reduced programmable controls to deal with it?
p.1 #13 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
1bwana1 wrote:
The elephant in the room of course is why such a complex set of interdependancies in settings, and difficult work flows to get AF to work properly when no other manufacturers have such issues? Especially in a camera with reduced programmable controls to deal with it?
It seems like a bug that they need to iron out. I believe VR link to focus point is a new feature unique to Nikon, so understandably it is a Nikon only issue, not? May be I am not noticing the elephant.
p.1 #14 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
highdesertmesa wrote:
I've done a bit more testing, and I now believe it is the VR/IBIS mode responsible for both "Link VR to focus point" and 3D tracking mode not working well with eye-AF. Both these modes require VR to be set to Sport for reliable eye-AF.
– With VR set to Sport, all AF modes work well with eye-AF.
– With VR set to Normal, do not use "Link VR to focus point", 3D AF, or wide area AF modes in conjunction with eye-AF.
The above is with my 40 f/2. Lenses with lens-VR may perform differently.
I looked up Sport VR versus Normal VR – seems Sport VR is fewer stops of IBIS in exchange for smoother image display. So I guess choose your VR mode based on your use case and settings....Show more →
I tested my Zf this evening with the Z 85mm f1.8, AF-C, 3D tracking, auto subject detection, and VR linked to focus point. I took several shots and all were perfectly in focus on my daughter. I see none of the issues you reported. However, I have lots of experience with the Z9 and Z8 also and they will definitely misfocus from time to time, Nikon's system is absolutely not perfect. I have the 40mm also but did not bother with that, I would never use that lens for portraits. Our cat for example is only about 25% hit rate, the black and white pattern on her completely confuses the AF system. But I see no fault in linking the VR causing eye AF to miss or issues with 3D tracking. I'm sure you are seeing issues but your conclusion is not correct, at least for all Zfs.
Edit: I should note that VR was set to "normal" also.
p.1 #15 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
1bwana1 wrote:
The elephant in the room of course is why such a complex set of interdependancies in settings, and difficult work flows to get AF to work properly when no other manufacturers have such issues? Especially in a camera with reduced programmable controls to deal with it?
Do other brands have VR linked to the AF point? I've never heard of such a thing.
p.1 #16 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
bcaslis wrote:
I tested my Zf this evening with the Z 85mm f1.8, AF-C, 3D tracking, auto subject detection, and VR linked to focus point. I took several shots and all were perfectly in focus on my daughter. I see none of the issues you reported. However, I have lots of experience with the Z9 and Z8 also and they will definitely misfocus from time to time, Nikon's system is absolutely not perfect. I have the 40mm also but did not bother with that, I would never use that lens for portraits. Our cat for example is only about 25% hit rate, the black and white pattern on her completely confuses the AF system. But I see no fault in linking the VR causing eye AF to miss or issues with 3D tracking. I'm sure you are seeing issues but your conclusion is not correct, at least for all Zfs.
Edit: I should note that VR was set to "normal" also. ...Show more →
Yes, my experience so far is only with the 40 f/2. Thanks for testing. Did you try it at very close distance like for tight headshots? At further distances the DOF may compensate for the errors.
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RoamingScott wrote:
Do other brands have VR linked to the AF point? I've never heard of such a thing.
New feature for Nikon and a first in general. The sensor pivots around the focus point instead of the center of the frame when stabilizing.
p.1 #17 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
1bwana1 wrote:
The elephant in the room of course is why such a complex set of interdependancies in settings, and difficult work flows to get AF to work properly when no other manufacturers have such issues? Especially in a camera with reduced programmable controls to deal with it?
It could be just the 40 f/2 or just my copy of it or my copy of the camera with an issue. This is why I hope to get more feedback from other Zf users.
p.1 #18 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
akul wrote:
It seems like a bug that they need to iron out. I believe VR link to focus point is a new feature unique to Nikon, so understandably it is a Nikon only issue, not? May be I am not noticing the elephant.
Luka
I'd say Fuji has a complex system/settings, though different than Nikons. It was always annoying to have to change AF settings/type depending on the situation.
p.1 #20 · Nikon Zf "Link VR to focus point" interfering with eye-AF
highdesertmesa wrote:
Yes, my experience so far is only with the 40 f/2. Thanks for testing. Did you try it at very close distance like for tight headshots? At further distances the DOF may compensate for the errors.
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New feature for Nikon and a first in general. The sensor pivots around the focus point instead of the center of the frame when stabilizing.
It would need to rotate around the axis of roll, not around the focus point. The difference is most likely in the specific amount of shift the camera applies when reacting to pitch and yaw.
