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Archive 2023 · ZEISS exits lens business

AGeoJO
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p.11 #1 · ZEISS exits lens business

rob_ww wrote:
Well, the Batis 135 is on its way! Nothing for it but to try it!

(You guys are expensive to talk to!)

Congrats, Rob! I regretted selling that lens a while back and I would consider buying that lens again�

Jun 16, 2023 at 01:45 PM

tsdevine
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p.11 #2 · ZEISS exits lens business

I believe I finally got a well centered copy of the Loxia 25. Seems to bounce out of magnified view quite a bit on my a7R V, but I'm thinking I can live with that.

So that leaves the Loxia 85 and/or Batis 85.

Jun 16, 2023 at 05:54 PM

mojoh
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p.11 #3 · ZEISS exits lens business

Yes, the 135mm did present itself to me a few times at good used prices. Was tempted to pick it up to complete my Batis set but resisted coz I know it will be a white elephant after the initial wow factor is gone (I turn to my B40 & L85 if I need 'wows'). 135 primes, like 180/200/300 primes, are specialized lenses and may not suit everybody. I also console myself that there's always the one stop faster 135GM option..

Jun 16, 2023 at 06:50 PM

mojoh
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p.11 #4 · ZEISS exits lens business

Magnified view bounce also happened to me on my A7R4a with Loxia. Couldn't recall which piece though. Perhaps cleaning lens contacts might help? Not sure.

Oh.. and you'll want BOTH B85 AND L85. I got the L85 first at good price but wanted AF. If the B85 came first, I would have wanted the L85's stronger colors & sharpness wide open and its sunstars..

tsdevine wrote:
I believe I finally got a well centered copy of the Loxia 25. Seems to bounce out of magnified view quite a bit on my a7R V, but I'm thinking I can live with that.

So that leaves the Loxia 85 and/or Batis 85.

Jun 16, 2023 at 07:11 PM

tsdevine
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p.11 #5 · ZEISS exits lens business

Yeah, I know I'll want both eventually. I think there are a lot more Batis 85's out in the wild. So if Zeiss is clearing out the last of the stock, thinking I'd lean towards picking up the Loxia. I could pickup the Batis used.

I can look at the contacts, but it's a brand new lens and my Loxia 21 doesn't seem to have the problem (or if it does, it isn't as severe.)

mojoh wrote:
Magnified view bounce also happened to me on my A7R4a with Loxia. Couldn't recall which piece though. Perhaps cleaning lens contacts might help? Not sure.

Oh.. and you'll want BOTH B85 AND L85. I got the L85 first at good price but wanted AF. If the B85 came first, I would have wanted the L85's colors, sharpness wide open and sunstars..

Jun 16, 2023 at 07:13 PM

tschopp
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p.11 #6 · ZEISS exits lens business

Batis vs Sony GM? Looking at the prices it seems similar between the Batis and GM. The Batis in general seems a stop slower. What do people think of the Batis vs the GM? Better color and rendering for the Batis? Is there a significant difference?

Jun 16, 2023 at 07:53 PM

lensfan
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p.11 #7 · ZEISS exits lens business

They simply don't adjust prices for Batis for some reason. Frankly, today they are overpriced new.

Jun 16, 2023 at 07:57 PM

Robin Smith
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p.11 #8 · ZEISS exits lens business

�Twas ever thus.

Jun 16, 2023 at 08:28 PM

tsdevine
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p.11 #9 · ZEISS exits lens business

It's interesting to see the number of reviews at B&H of the various Loxia and Batis lenses, along with the date it was announced. Surprising how few reviews there are for the Loxia 25, just 3. I realize many more lenses are sold than reviews are submitted, but still....

Loxia 21 - 53 (10/12/2015)
Loxia 25 - 3 (2/14/2018)
Loxia 35 - 45 (9/2/2014)
Loxia 50 - 38 (9/2/2014)
Loxia 85 - 12 (9/15/2016)

Now lets look at the Batis

Batis 18 - 119 (4/14/2016)
Batis 25 - 114 (4/22/2015)
Batis 40 - 62 (9/27/2018)
Batis 85 - 186 (4/22/2015)
Batis 135 - 48 (4/24/2017)

This is probably fairly useless, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

Jun 16, 2023 at 08:53 PM

philip_pj
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p.11 #10 · ZEISS exits lens business

The Loxia 25mm is arguably the best of the lineup, ironically. With the measly 12 reviews for the L85, enthusiasm appears to have waned over the three and half years lifetime of the range. So Loxia survived from late 2014 until early 2018.

And Voigtlander releases (for Sony) ran from April 2016 until April 2021 - for a five year lifespan. Overall, that makes it less than seven years of manual focus lens releases for the #1 seller in mirrorless, a breakthrough technology that breathed new life into MF lens usage. Was it a passing phase until they were satisifed Sony had their lens releases up and running?

Jun 16, 2023 at 11:01 PM

Schwarzlicht
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p.11 #11 · ZEISS exits lens business

lensfan wrote:
They simply don't adjust prices for Batis for some reason. Frankly, today they are overpriced new.

In Germany, the 135 Batis cost about 2000 euros (about 1820 dollars) when it was released. Now it's available in stores everywhere for 1150 euros (about $1046) or less. There is also 200 euros cash back from the manufacturer. So I paid 950 euros ($864) for a new Batis 135 a few days ago.

Jun 17, 2023 at 02:23 AM

Schwarzlicht
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p.11 #12 · ZEISS exits lens business

tschopp wrote:
Batis vs Sony GM? Looking at the prices it seems similar between the Batis and GM. The Batis in general seems a stop slower. What do people think of the Batis vs the GM? Better color and rendering for the Batis? Is there a significant difference?

When you actually photograph, you realize that the differences can be huge. You can compare GM and Batis in sharpness and resolution. But the picture impressions can be so different that in my opinion they are not comparable. I have had the 85 Batis since 2015 and shortly after that I also bought the 85/1.4 GM. The GM always has a very, very good and sometimes spectacular bokeh, no matter the situation, no matter the background, no matter the distance and no matter what the light. The colors are sometimes good on the GM, but often the colors are way off the mark and I have to invest a lot of time in LR. Faces often don't appear alive on the GM compared to the Batis. Faces always come alive in Batis. The colors almost always match. The bokeh is different than the GM, it can look great, sometimes choppy. But I almost always take the Batis because I enjoy it more and the GM has mostly been in my showcase for years. I keep thinking about selling the 85 GM. The contrasts and micro-contrasts of the Batis lenses are simply fantastic. They can really shine along with the colors. The images often have a lot of depth and appear very three-dimensional. I don't care which lens has a bit more sharpness or resolution on paper. As a result, the m.M. after no role. Almost all fixed focal lengths are sharp. The only thing that counts for me is the image result and how much time I have to invest in LR. In my opinion, the ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF is an outstanding Batis. It reminds me of many Voigtlander lenses, only with AF and Zeiss colors. The Batis 40/2 is really fun and I wouldn't trade it for any other lens.

Yes, if that is important to you, you can compare sharpness and resolution. However, the Batis lenses sometimes have their own unique character when it comes to the image impression, which I often cannot achieve with my Sony lenses.

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f8; iso100; 30 seconds

DSC09152 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f8; iso100; 30 seconds

DSC09146 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 25/2; f8; iso100; 30 seconds

DSC09235 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 85/1.8; f8; iso100; 30 seconds

DSC08481/1 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 85/1.8

DSC05086 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 85/1.8; f1.8

DSC00167 by
stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 85/1.8; f3.2

DSC08656 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 25/2

DSC05057 by stm geist, auf Flickr

"Zeiss Pop";
ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f2

DSC06430 by stm geist, auf Flickr

"Zeiss Pop";
ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f4

DSC06419 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f2

DSC06515-2 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f3.5

DSC06636 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF

DSC02535 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF

DSC08753 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF

DSC09521 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF

DSC09235 by stm geist, auf Flickr

ZEISS Batis 2/40 CF; f8; iso100; 13 seconds

DSC07024 by stm geist, auf Flickr

Edited on Jun 17, 2023 at 07:07 AM · View previous versions

Jun 17, 2023 at 03:13 AM

johnahill
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p.11 #13 · ZEISS exits lens business

I bought the 85 Batis first in the early days of the FF Sony mirrorless, then a friend working at Zeiss was kind enough to order me a 21 Loxia on employee discount and ended up adding the 85mm Loxia at a very good used price. Did have the 135 but traded it for the GM

Current used prices have me pondering more Batis lenses, I'm favouring AF these days for convenience and have a decent workflow for landscape with back button AF in DMF mode and tweaking with zoomed in view on a custom button.

Jun 17, 2023 at 04:00 AM

lensfan
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p.11 #14 · ZEISS exits lens business

Same question here. Colors are very pleasing to my eye but how much of it is SOOC and how much is post?

Schwarzlicht wrote:
When you actually photograph, you realize that the differences can be huge. You can compare GM and Batis in sharpness and resolution. But the picture impressions can be so different that in my opinion they are not comparable. I have had the 85 Batis since 2015 and shortly after that I also bought the 85/1.4 GM. The GM always has a very, very good and sometimes spectacular bokeh, no matter the situation, no matter the background, no matter the distance and no matter what the light. The colors are sometimes good on the GM, but often the colors are way...Show more →

Jun 17, 2023 at 05:26 AM

zoomo
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p.11 #15 · ZEISS exits lens business

rob_ww wrote:
Well, the Batis 135 is on its way! Nothing for it but to try it!

(You guys are expensive to talk to!)

I cannot imagine for one second that you would be disappointed. Congratulations, the 135 is an exceptional lens!

See e.g. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/zeiss-batis-apo-sonnar-t-135mm-f2-8/

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/zeiss-batis-135mm-f-2-8-review-30901#Verdict

http://www.verybiglobo.com/zeiss-batis-apo-sonnar-135mm-f2-8-lens-review/10/

Edited on Jun 17, 2023 at 06:43 AM · View previous versions

Jun 17, 2023 at 06:34 AM

Schwarzlicht
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p.11 #16 · ZEISS exits lens business

lensfan wrote:
Same question here. Colors are very pleasing to my eye but how much of it is SOOC and how much is post?

Hello,
I generally don't edit the color saturation, the slider always remains at -0-. I also don't work on individual colors as a matter of principle, because I have no desire to, no experience. If I feel the need to, I edit the white balance and sometimes the color dynamics. I also edit the contrast, which affects the color intensity.

Jun 17, 2023 at 06:41 AM

bluehawaii
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p.11 #17 · ZEISS exits lens business

I purchased the Batis 25 when it came out. It was better than the Sony 28 but not as good as the GM 24. It did have incredibly good AF performance, nice colour, rendering etc.

I think that seems to suggest Sony would not agree to the f1.4 primes that a large part of the events and pro market wanted and therefore the Zeiss designers were forced to do their absolute best within those constraints.

At the time they were designed stabilization was missing from the 1st gen bodies hence the 85 and 135. The 25 wasn't superb on the A7RII and up in my experience. Never tried the 18 or 40.

Jun 17, 2023 at 07:02 AM

carlosmcse
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p.11 #18 · ZEISS exits lens business

I had a Planar once. Didn�t care for it.

Jun 17, 2023 at 07:22 AM

chiron
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p.11 #19 · ZEISS exits lens business

Schwarzlicht wrote:
When you actually photograph, you realize that the differences can be huge. You can compare GM and Batis in sharpness and resolution. But the picture impressions can be so different that in my opinion they are not comparable. I have had the 85 Batis since 2015 and shortly after that I also bought the 85/1.4 GM. The GM always has a very, very good and sometimes spectacular bokeh, no matter the situation, no matter the background, no matter the distance and no matter what the light. The colors are sometimes good on the GM, but often the colors are way...Show more →

Gorgeous images. They are luminous. They really glow.

Zeiss has often described the Loxia and the Batis lenses as having a quality they call "rounded sharpness" and that description actually makes visual sense to me when I look at images made by those lenses. There is a naturalness to the edges that has some of the qualities of a painting.

Optics is a very complex science with tradeoffs in the visual effects of design that go way beyond resolution and the straightforward correction of aberrations.

For a non-Zeiss example: The design of the Sigma 45mm f2.8 i series lens has been well-documented to have been undertaken specifically to prize rendering at some cost to maximum aperture and sharpness at close distances. The rendering of the lens is absolutely beautiful (and actually does remind me of Batis and Loxia rendering). But there is no number to specify exactly what it is that makes the rendering so good, so it is harder to talk about and less easy to notice on casual viewing.

Resolution can be important, but it is only one element in the design of a good lens and too extreme a focus on resolution can yield an image that looks artificial in its sharpness. For example, the sharpness produced by the Voigtlander 50mm f2.0 APO is pleasing to me in some pictures but looks over-sharp and unnatural in others. Similarly, the Voigtlander Nokton 21mm/1.4 lens is a bit sharper than the Loxia 21mm/2.8, but in side-to-side comparisons many people will prefer the Loxia for its overall rendition of a scene. Painters in creating visual images very rarely privilege the sharpness of their effects. Look at Vermeer; his paintings have some qualities that are photographic, but there is not a sharp edge in sight.

Zeiss's Batis and Loxia lenses are quite sharp but with their "rounded sharpness" seem designed for visual effects other than maximum resolution.

Jun 17, 2023 at 07:48 AM

rob_ww
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p.11 #20 · ZEISS exits lens business

zoomo wrote:
I cannot imagine for one second that you would be disappointed. Congratulations, the 135 is an exceptional lens!

See e.g. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/zeiss-batis-apo-sonnar-t-135mm-f2-8/

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/zeiss-batis-135mm-f-2-8-review-30901#Verdict

http://www.verybiglobo.com/zeiss-batis-apo-sonnar-135mm-f2-8-lens-review/10/

Hi and thanks for these. Very encouraging reviews. I noticed nearly all the reviews of Batis lenses were full of praise when the lenses were first released. And the reviews by those who have revisited one or more Batis lenses (e.g. Dustin Abbott, Mark Galer) remain strong in praise 3-4 years later. While the lenses are considered expensive, they are generally very low in distortion, sharp across the frame, great colour fidelity and a good balance of weight vs wide aperture. The only apparent negative is that newer lenses have arrived since which are also highly praised, but that does not lessen the quality of the original lenses, as can be seen just by perusing the Batis image threads in this forum alone.

I am hoping the 135 lives up to its reputation in my hands. In fact, the biggest challenge will be with me as the operator -- adjusting to the longer focal length after many years of working with shorter lenses!

Jun 17, 2023 at 01:36 PM

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