I have used most of thr Sony bodies and have alwauys struggled with getting goos skin tones due to weird yellowish tint, specially in artificial light. Looks like Sony has finally addressed this issue.
Wasn't planning on getting A7rV but now it has definitely peaked my interest.
I moved to Sony for the first time, earlier this year and get the same skin tone problem with my A7R4 (which I otherwise love). I bought the Cobalt Standard profile from Cobalt Image and it gives a much better starting point for Lightroom editing. Cheaper than an A7R5!
I have the impression that if you use Lightroom adobe portrait or similar, it overwrites the camera’s color science. The color science is therefore more for jpeg files
Is this the case or am I misunderstanding something
Raw files don't have color profiles. Technically they don't contain any color information. There's nothing to "overwrite." How colors look depends entirely on the raw converter and what color profiles is used.
When people say they don't like Sony colors they usually mean they don't like how the JPGs look because with JPGs you're beholden to whatever raw conversion and color profile the camera has baked into it.
aCuria wrote:
I have the impression that if you use Lightroom adobe portrait or similar, it overwrites the camera’s color science. The color science is therefore more for jpeg files
Is this the case or am I misunderstanding something
My understanding is that the new AI chip is also being used for color. It has algorithms that recognizes people in an image, their ethnicity and skin color. It then adjusts WB and other color attributes to optimize the skin color.
This would affect the jpeg of course, and also the starting colors when processing RAW files.
I haven't seen the reviewers and press paying much attention to this yet. But it may be significant in the long run. I am anxious to learn more details on this if true.
Ubiquity99 wrote:
Raw files don't have color profiles. Technically they don't contain any color information. There's nothing to "overwrite." How colors look depends entirely on the raw converter and what color profiles is used.
When people say they don't like Sony colors they usually mean they don't like how the JPGs look because with JPGs you're beholden to whatever raw conversion and color profile the camera has baked into it.
The camera, along with your processing software, are also making a determination of your starting colors in RAW files. I had to massage magenta out of my A7Riv portraits more than I wanted. I'm also curious if the AI chip helps this. At the end of the day, you can do almost anything with a RAW file, but it's nice when it's closer to your desired end result right out of the camera.
To the OP, they're talking about JPEGs. And it's "piqued"
If you want to save some money I'll comment on all your photos and tell you your skin tones look great for a mere $3,000. Saves you a bundle compared to a new camera.
1bwana1 wrote:
My understanding is that the new AI chip is also being used for color. It has algorithms that recognizes people in an image, their ethnicity and skin color. It the adjust WB and other color attributes to optimize the skin color.
This would affect the jpeg of course, and also the starting colors when processing RAW files.
I haven't seen the reviewers and press paying much attention to this yet. But it may be significant in the long run.
Very interesting. I would like to know more as well. Where did you find the info about "[A7rV AI]... algorithms that recognizes people in an image, their ethnicity and skin color."
I shoot Raw been using C1 for ages and in almost all cases it has never been an issue with any of the Sony cams but you can always create a style and apply whatever you did to Raws coming in on import
Cameras don't have "color science" they have color settings. I equate that youtuby phrase with "SOOC" and JPEG. I've never had color trouble with any camera system. Shoot raw and/or set correct white balance. Problem solved.
LBJ2 wrote:
Very interesting. I would like to know more as well. Where did you find the info about "[A7rV AI]... algorithms that recognizes people in an image, their ethnicity and skin color."
These two features in tandem might help colors out of the body.
"Consistently accurate exposure and color: The latest BIONZ XR engine achieves even better exposure control and color reproduction accuracy. A new AE (auto exposure) algorithm is capable of detecting the skin area in faces and controlling exposure accordingly when shooting stills and movies."
"Improved accuracy of WB control: the α7R V's 7R V's AWB (auto white balance) function has evolved in tandem with the camera's AI capabilities. In addition to the Visible Light + IR sensor on the front of the body, the camera's AI processing unit helps to achieve more accurate white balance in difficult lighting, such as when the subject is in shadow."
Color is super easy to correct in Adobe software. Just use the targeted adjustment tool in the HSL/Color panel to shift Hue, Saturation, and/or Luminance of whatever color you don't like. I use this all the time in mixed lighting situations where there's no one-size-fits-all profile possible. Takes a few seconds to get good skin tones, and that usually also corrects the color of the lighting (generally warm incandescent/tungsten) at the same time.
fotografur wrote:
I shoot Sony in Raw, don't use LR I just go straight to PS and never have problems with color.
It's the same processing software in each (all based on ACR). LR just has a ton more features than ACR, and ACR has a few more features than PS (as far as RAW editing). But the color and tone processing is equal in all three as long as all programs are up to date.
Ubiquity99 wrote:
When people say they don't like Sony colors they usually mean they don't like how the JPGs look because with JPGs you're beholden to whatever raw conversion and color profile the camera has baked into it.
No, most people who say they don't like Sony colors, are talking about their RAWs developed using Adobe "color science".
I love my A1 jpeg color, and want to throw up when I open the RAWs in Lightroom. Load up a Cobalt profile, and all is well again.
Capture One is the other way to get good color.
Recently I learned there are also people who say Sony color science is bad because auto white balance doesn't read their mind. They've never tried the WB priority settings or the offset adjustment - let alone manual WB.
indusphoto wrote:
Don't change your camera. Change your raw processor. Both C1 and DXO give better results, though I prefer DXO.
You don't even need to change your RAW processor. Just get better profiles. DXO can use the same exact profiles Adobe uses, since they both use DCP format profiles. C1 uses ICC, so it's a bit tougher to find equally as good profiles, as C1 doesn't allow dual illuminant profile creation.
Adobe needs to fix its Sony color science. Having said that, maybe I'm not picky enough, but I have never had anyone complain about the skin colors in any of my photos.
