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Archive 2022 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography

  
 
eeneryma
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p.1 #1 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


For those of you who are thinking about selling your work, here's an interesting article from Petapixel on pricing practices and considerations:

https://petapixel.com/pricing-fine-art-photography/

Steve

PS It would be nice to make some money from our hard work.



Jul 10, 2022 at 09:56 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


eeneryma wrote:
For those of you who are thinking about selling your work, here's an interesting article from Petapixel on pricing practices and considerations:

https://petapixel.com/pricing-fine-art-photography/

Steve

PS It would be nice to make some money from our hard work.


Nice "nuts and bolts" read, to stimulate some thought.

I think the big take away of the article is the "unaccounted for" expenses that went into the creation of the finished piece.

The issue is then, how do you strategize to create an ROI for your investment into the work. Some folks will approach low volume, high margin, others will go low margin high volume. But, in either case understanding the "hidden costs" or "total costs" to produce should be something that is understood.


That said, ours is not manufacturing widgets. So, while the basics of manufacturing costs are to be understood, there are other matters that are integral to the process of monetizing our vision, such as bringing our works to market, and then the matter of bringing them to the right market, etc. that values our vision and creations.

To this end, I refer to Roy DeCarava's quote:

"I don’t really think that the technique really determines the veracity of the image. It’s what the image does to the viewer that determines whether it’s right or wrong."


The salient point being that the image must do something to the viewer, in order for the viewer to generate any sense of valuation regarding it. Once that is established, then it has some form of valuation. Otoh, the sense of valuation can be created regarding the artist themselves, either moreover or as an adjunct to the piece.

Without that (imo) creation of valuation in the market, then the valuation of costs to produce is meaningless. Whereas, if the creation of valuation in the market is strong, it can greatly exceed the cost to produce. Of course, this is far easier said than done. If it were easy, everyone could do it.

Calculating the costs to produce (even the extent of all the nuance detail or rule of thumb) is probably the easy part. Getting to market and finding the right market that matches well to your ROI approach and to your creative works ... that's a bit trickier, imo (said by a guy who hasn't cracked that nut).


This is a vastly deeper subject than posted here (or the article itself), but the article does give credence to the point that the issue of monetizing may have elements to it beyond the superficial ... but, I think the matter goes far deeper than the article's point about "'hidden costs", and successfully recouping them. I recall in my recruiting days, the course work included a reference to the "Art and Science" of doing so (which is sales). The article here I think is weighted to the "Science" associated with the mechanism of business, but omits the "Art" of the sales process.

Still, a nugget to be retained.







Jul 10, 2022 at 10:37 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #3 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


I think that technique comes into play it when one is having a solo exhibit at a gallery in regards to having images that all look like they belong together in some fashion. And the way one puts their images together which, concerns visual elements that are not technical in nature, and also the technical things that help in creating a style and a personal way of seeing. Presentation, I would is also say is technical, when talking printing, matting and framing.

I mean with galleries that once took less than 20% now taking as much as 40 and 50% and the price of matting and framing (my last exhibit and I printed, matted and framed everything myself) I was over 2K outta pocket before the show was even hung. My work was priced at $750.00 and I sold just enough to about break even.

Edited on Jul 10, 2022 at 01:41 PM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2022 at 10:49 AM
eeneryma
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p.1 #4 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography




airfrogusmc wrote:
I think that technique comes into play it when one is having a solo exhibit at a gallery in regards to having images that all look like they belong together in some fashion. And the way one puts their images together which, concerns visual elements that are not technical in nature, and also the technical things that help in creating a style and a personal way of seeing. Presentation, I would is also say is technical, when talking printing, matting and framing.

I mean with galleries that once took less than 20% now taking as much as 40 and 50%
...Show more

A few things to put into perspective for my genre, street photography. It’s a hard sell as most people generally don’t want photos of people who they don’t know on their walls. That said, I do my photography for the joy and challenge of creative expression. If I’m in a position now or then to sell something, this article is a helpful tool.
Steve



Jul 10, 2022 at 11:53 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #5 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Yes I think we do it (street) for the love of it. Winogrand said just about what you did in your comments above. I think it is important to get into the right gallery. One that has the right clientele that would be inclined to buy in this instance street work.




Jul 10, 2022 at 12:06 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #6 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Just my take on things, and feel free to disagree:

1. There are three types of photographers: pro (do it for a living), avid amateur (like me) and the "snapper".
2. Photography is a relatively young art when compared to painting and sculpting
3. Top end paintings have sold for crazy money, but those painter are almost always already dead
4. The influence of those sales, along with a long history of sales, have given painting (and to some extent, sculpting) a positive history and a perception as "true" art, thus making higher prices accepted and expected

So what does this mean? There are pros that are Nat Geo quality (using wildlife as an example) and/or put in a ton of work on social media (photo posts, blogs, articles, videos, ebooks), running workshops, and entering contests in hopes of achieving "award-winning" status. They focus on photographing what they believe will sell. Avid amateurs generally see it as a hobby and photograph what they enjoy photographing and don't spend massive time promoting themselves. The "snapper" is generally taking photos for "likes" and to show family.

Photography still seems to hold the "black sheep" title of the art world. "Photographs are everywhere. We are inundated with images daily making them seem commonplace." Anybody can take a photo so everybody takes great photos, right? Of course not, but judging by social media posts, many posters don't know what post processing is (other than perhaps the saturation slider) and couldn't make a straight horizon if their life depended on it, but they get all kinds of "likes" anyway. Since anybody can create a "great" photo, why pay for one!

I know there are photographers better than me, but I consider myself decent. I have sold a number of prints (and ironically, a few of them were photos I debated even putting on my site). But I have also had enquiries for prints where people baulked at $60 or $90 for a print (paper, not metal). one fellow was really interested in a double rainbow photo and wanted a relatively large print. I quoted the price for the print and gave him several suggestions for mounting (indicating I could arrange that or he could do it himself). He indicated it was too expensive. Price? About $90 for the print.

I recall many years ago watching a painter in Rapid City, S. Dakota (I think) banging out paintings on the street in 20 minutes and then selling them for $20 - $30. Nearly 50 years ago! He had a healthy business, to say the least. To my recollection, they were very good, but hardly great.

I don't think people realize the material costs and commitment of time to come up with excellent photos -> prints (often made while people are still snug in their beds). I know it would never (ever) work this way, but this article would be most educational for non-photographers to read to understand what is involved (behind and beyond the camera).

I certainly don't envy people who have chosen photography as a way to make a living; especially those that opted not to do wedding, portrait or pet photography.

Don



Jul 10, 2022 at 12:51 PM
mulder32
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p.1 #7 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Some good points in the article. Street photography can be a tough sell at art shows but it all depends on style. I do fairly well because I keep my prices reasonable...definitely not too high but I've seen others price lower. I find 8x10s matted to 11x14 to have the highest profit margin and sell pretty well considering people don't need a ton of wall space for an 11x14 frame.

My books do OK at art shows but the profit margin is pretty bad. I do them for the enjoyment of seeing a book of my work. If I make $15-20 I'm happy.

That being said I think street, architecture, etc can do well at shows because the VAST majority of photographers at art shows are selling nature, wildlife, landscapes, etc...usually very large and on metal. I'm the traditionalist with white mats and black or white frames so my stuff sticks out and makes me different.

Pricing is a pain and I hate doing it...if people really love a certain image they will shell out big bucks but it's usually a numbers game with others.



Jul 10, 2022 at 01:04 PM
ftllens
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p.1 #8 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


If you would like to tap into the money pool for your work, you should need to appeal to those with the biggest growing appetite for building collections. Networking and marketing your work through the appropriate channels is the most important beyond anything else.

That crowd would be the emergent market of digital high-res curations of crypto-based collections.

It's not uncommon for pretty mediocre photographs to go for $10k per frame during upcycles (no physical printing, framing, lighting required since all done in something like Unreal Engine gallery).

You need to grind Discord channels and the web3.0 streams though (and attend NFT events).



Jul 10, 2022 at 02:26 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #9 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


ftllens wrote:
If you would like to tap into the money pool for your work, you should need to appeal to those with the biggest growing appetite for building collections. Networking and marketing your work through the appropriate channels is the most important beyond anything else.

That crowd would be the emergent market of digital high-res curations of crypto-based collections.

It's not uncommon for pretty mediocre photographs to go for $10k per frame during upcycles (no physical printing, framing, lighting required since all done in something like Unreal Engine gallery).

You need to grind Discord channels and the web3.0 streams though (and attend
...Show more

Definately not the way I want people to experience my personal work.



Jul 11, 2022 at 07:15 AM
doady
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p.1 #10 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


I think face-to-face contact and physical books and prints provides much deeper and more meaningful connections with people than social media and NFTs. I have started buying books in recent years myself. Maybe I need to start visiting art galleries too.

I never sold anything before but I never actually made anything for that purpose either. How to decorate the walls in someone's home is not on my mind when I take a photo. And I concentrate on photography rather than marketing. Marketing not really my strength, honestly.

I think if someone ever asks for a print, it would make sense to make test prints and make 5 or 10 copies at once and sell as a limited edition just as the article describes. In the past, I thought about printing on demand open editions at lower price, but I realize now it is not cost-effective, not just in terms of money but also time. Again, I'd rather concentrate my efforts on photography rather than marketing. If someone ever hangs one of my photos one their wall, that probably would be more powerful marketing than anything I could ever do.

Of course, that is not to say to presentation is not part of photography at all. To think about how to present my work in terms of printing and trying out different papers and sizes, whether to mounting or frame and matte and stuff like that will probably be very fun, if it ever comes to that. NFTs and cryptocurrency just would not be as much an extension of my photography as printing would be.

The only thing that I am really unsure about what is "fine art photography". That is what the article is about, but does that actually include me and my work? I am not sure, so I always avoid using the term "fine art" on my website, to the point that I even omit any mention of prints.



Jul 11, 2022 at 01:22 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #11 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


eeneryma wrote:
A few things to put into perspective for my genre, street photography. It’s a hard sell as most people generally don’t want photos of people who they don’t know on their walls. That said, I do my photography for the joy and challenge of creative expression. If I’m in a position now or then to sell something, this article is a helpful tool.
Steve


I have to agree with Steve! I live in the country so the biggest town near me, well there is not much variety to photograph.

That is not to say, and I am not, that the above points are not valid. THEY ARE!

I have posted thousands of images of all sorts of websites. Only a few buys.
I am in it for ME! For those of you who can break even or profit, yet get great exposure, you are to be applauded!

Exposure is the key IMHO!!

If others appreciate my photography fine. Thank you!

I just love photography and my style and compositions. To each his/her own.

All discussions well stated! I learn something from every photograph posted here.
Dan



Jul 12, 2022 at 11:18 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #12 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


In my area (middle and eastern Long Island), there are over a dozen active camera clubs with hundreds and hundreds of members. There are many hundreds more of us who are avid photographers but do not participate in camera clubs. Most amateur photographers would love to have their work seen and to sell some pieces.

Regardless of the "quality" of the photography that is not likely to happen. Most galleries will not even take photography or do so maybe once or twice in a year. Price hardly matters, even work at printing and framing cost is unlikely to sell. Should I also mention the numerous flea market and outdoor art shows? I think most of those selling like the flea market experience and mostly what sells seems to be relatively large canvas prints at under $100.

Of course there are those who beat the odds. Again it is not quality, but years of social media, personal contacts and working near full time to promote their work. There are plenty of seminars and workshops available to help those photographers who are interested. At least those people make some money.

Again, I am only mentioning selling prints. Plenty of wedding, graduation, event photographers do well, especially the wedding photographers. It takes years to generate a lot of high end word of mouth sales but a decent wedding photographer can easily clear $5K on a weekend after costs and paying a second shooter. I also know a few product and fashion photographers who do really well.



Jul 12, 2022 at 04:02 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #13 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Personally I don’t think photography will ever reach the level of appreciation that you see with painting. Anyone can learn how to use a camera, so photography is more of a skill than a creative art. How many photographers could even learn how to paint some of the photographs they take with a camera? Yes there are some photographers with an ability to make art, but I think the biggest majority of photographers are documentary shooters. I am aware that some documentary photography can be art. Those few with a creative ability to make art, will probably be successful. Having said that I think one needs to break new ground in order to sell for a good profit or hang in a gallery.


Jul 12, 2022 at 04:09 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #14 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


grandmas wrote:
Personally I don’t think photography will ever reach the level of appreciation that you see with painting. Anyone can learn how to use a camera, so photography is more of a skill than a creative art. How many photographers could even learn how to paint some of the photographs they take with a camera? Yes there are some photographers with an ability to make art, but I think the biggest majority of photographers are documentary shooters. I am aware that some documentary photography can be art. Those few with a creative ability to make art, will probably be successful. Having
...Show more

This is so far from the truth I don't even no where to begin but I will say this; this was settled about a century ago. This is exactly what painters were saying about photography as an art form a century ago. And it was argued by Weston (he defined the term straight photography) and so many other photographers that the art in photography has to do with the ability to see. And that for photography to become an art form it had to move away from trying to imitate paintings (pictorial photography) and do what photography does best. Straight photography came from this. The art in photography has to do with seeing and capturing that vision. It can be and is as much art as any other art form.

Further reading can be some here but there are plenty of books written on the subject. This just scratches the surface
https://www.theartstory.org/movement/straight-photography/



Jul 12, 2022 at 04:47 PM
EverLearning
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p.1 #15 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Grandmas, your above comment diminishes many of the traits, abilities and requirements that go into fine art photography. I will speak of the genre I know best - wildlife. Part of the problem is that a holistic perspective is not taken when commenting on the 'art'. Much goes into creating art that is not purely artistic. So looking at the "whole", there is vision, patience, commitment to early hours and long days, research on subjects and locations, packing heavy gear, intimate knowledge of how to maximize the use of that gear, tolerance of intense heat, biting cold, swarms of mosquitos, compositional skill, anticipation/timing, understanding of the subject's behaviour and environment, wilderness knowledge (you may be trying to get that fox shot but you better know about bears!), post-processing skills, printing knowledge (whether doing your own or working with a fine art print shop), etc, etc, etc.

And when talking about the "value" of a photo, most people do not consider gear costs, printing costs, shipping costs, travel costs (air, boat, vehicle rentals, gas, hotels, food). Yeah, everybody might have a camera in their back pocket but their not getting the photo of a wolf in Yellowstone with it.

Putting a photographic device in everybody's hands no more makes them a fine art photographer than putting a stethoscope in everybody's hands makes them a doctor.

That photography is misunderstood and under-appreciated, there is no doubt.



Jul 12, 2022 at 05:04 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #16 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


airfrogusmc wrote:
This is so far from the truth I don't even no where to begin but I will say this; this was settled about a century ago. This is exactly what painters were saying about photography as an art form a century ago. And it was argued by Weston (he defined the term straight photography) and so many other photographers that the art in photography has to do with the ability to see. And that for photography to become an art form it had to move away from trying to imitate paintings (pictorial photography) and do what photography does best. Straight
...Show more

Sure, but look at the number of photos we see over and over done exactly the same way. The early photographers paved the way. New technology has made photography available to everyone. More photos means less appreciation, doesn't matter if they are good or bad, people do not care. It is very hard to sell something to people who do not care if it is good or bad. Without people buying, the price goes down. When only those few were doing photography the photos had more appreciation. I get that some folks work very hard to make a WOW photo, and I hope they are successful.




Jul 12, 2022 at 07:49 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #17 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Huh? The Kodak Brownie did that to in the early 1900s. And becasue of that a lot of work was being produced then by everybody, still some separated themselves from the herd. Then and now.

There is still amazing work being done by some amazing photographers, You just have to look in the right places. And be able to recognize it when you see it.



Jul 12, 2022 at 08:10 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #18 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


airfrogusmc wrote:
There is still amazing work being done by some amazing photographers, You just have to look in the right places. And be able to recognize it when you see it.


I agree, but my point was different and you are missing what I was saying.




Jul 12, 2022 at 08:25 PM
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p.1 #19 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


EverLearning wrote:
That photography is misunderstood and under-appreciated, there is no doubt.


1. Certainly that is true of the general public.
2. Many photographers still misunderstand and underappreciate. For a while I belonged to a local camera club. Most of the members had little idea of "fine art" photography. Shock and awe and winning formula driven competitions was it. Later on I was invited to join a selective group of experienced photographers. The members have a lot of technical skill and most continue to do well and worry about club competitions. In spite of the skill and ability to produce powerful photos, most still seem to downplay the fine art aspects of what they do. Two of the members drifted off into the world of digital art and one of them doesn't even use their own photographs as starting points. A couple more seem embarrassed that their work is not "art". They have taken the route of the very early photographers who had the same doubts and produce "pictorials". Every photo needs some sort of filter, or grain, or some sort of artsy approach. They seem to love the old Topaz and more sophisticated "filters". Straight photography seems to be just an embarrassment. Two other members are On1 (I think that is correct) fans and produce work that all seems to have a highly processed "grunge" character.

If the general public and most photographers do not aspire to achieve "fine art", how can we expect the art world, curators, and gallerists to see our endeavors in that light?




Jul 12, 2022 at 09:57 PM
Nikonshooter24
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p.1 #20 · How To Price Your Fine Art Photography


Don’t sell for too cheap! It will work against you.


Jul 13, 2022 at 01:36 AM
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